142 replies to this topic

[ccabal86]

It's not the people, it's the religion that makes them bat-shit crazy mass murderers. They don't want to fix it, they don't want our help to fix it, so we really have no choice. We will not do nothing while they move in and execute our people. We can always drill through the glass to get the oil, so no loss there. I saw Obama and Putin talking today at G20... I wonder what they are coming up with?

I'm inclined to agree that the religion itself is the biggest problem. Don't get me wrong, it's not just Islam. All 3 Abrahamic religions build upon the story of much revered Abraham, who was willing to sacrifice his son at the command of God. This story sets the premise that human life (even the lives of loved ones) are secondary to the will of God. What the will of God is, is naturally open to interpretation.

If you claim to be a believer of an Abrahamic religion, but still think human life comes before the will of God, then I'm sorry (or rather happy) to say that your faith isn't very strong. The true believers of unshakable faith are the guys in ISIS today or the Crusaders of days gone by.

[Lysistrata]

Looks like France hit Raqqa... that didn't take long... what are the odds that France would lead this fight?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/france-drops-20-bombs-islamic-6838318

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/11/15/french-jets-target-isis-in-raqqa/?intcmp=hpbt1

Edited by Lysistrata, 16 November 2015 - 01:16 AM.

[Rafay]

Exactly what I was saying ccbal. That after wiping out ISIS, the forces need to stay in an active role and help the govt. w/ setting up a proper democratic order.

[Fox Fire]

I wasn't talking about ISIS. I was referring to the common folk of mid-east. That's the way they are cuz of their customs.

 

The thing is that we can destroy ISIS. But the vacuum will be filled by another terror group. After excising the tumor, you have to still give chemo or radio to kill the remaining cells that cannot be surgically removed. ISIS replaced AQAP in Iraq and Syria so it won't be long b4 another Jihadi jingoist group picks up arms against the west.

 

We need to defeat the ignorance and illiteracy in the region and provide stability and a European model of democracy there.

But it's that kind of thing that brings rise to Salafism/Wahhabism. 

It's not as simple as educating people when a huge swath of Sunni ideology is based on rejecting western influence. 

People like ISIS are not illiterate or stupid. They simply believe in Salafism and follow it strictly. ISIS are not the only people with this ideology. Virtually every person in Saudi Arabia is a Salafist and can agree with their ideology if not sympathize with it. We would have to forcibly re-educate entire nations who's people have grown up under strict interpretations of the Quran as law.

Looks like France hit Raqqa... that didn't take long... what are the odds that France would lead this fight?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/france-drops-20-bombs-islamic-6838318

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/11/15/french-jets-target-isis-in-raqqa/?intcmp=hpbt1

Not impressive. We've been bombing the shit out of them for years. This type of response is quite honestly pathetic. If we're going to wage war, we might as well do it right.

[Rafay]

It's not as simple as educating people when a huge swath of Sunni ideology is based on rejecting western influence. 

 

But I'm a Sunni and I turned out fine.

 

That's just what Arabia has made world think. There are countless ppl in KSA that would throw away their monarchy to get democracy and modernization. The Arab media notoriously blacks out the protests that take place daily in the country against monarchy. 

 

An educated person has earned his place in life and will not squander away his education for a chance at 72 virgins...............Which is still a very strong issue as to who will the virgins be?? It could be those World of Warcraft players or COD players as well who never leave their basements.

[onbekende]

Yes this post will seem like I am singling you out, perhaps some reasoning is behind it thou?

Hi Shah!... I don't understand the context of these refugee charts. Are you saying that bringing in refugees is a great thing to do? If so... please take them all, we don't want them. You obviously have no idea what being a conservative is. Do you know what the Nazi's were? They were the National Socialist German Workers Party. Not much in common there. Are you calling me a racist? Try something original. I don't want terrorists to enter the USA... and I don't care if you think I'm a racist, it just makes you misguided.

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a) USA has lost most meaning of all the political spectrum terms along the way, or rather it has found new meanings for each. A conservative is someone who likes the present, who wants status-quo. But with that status-quo also comes the value's being asserted in the present time. You might be surprised but the conservatives (who honour the name) in the EU actually are pro-immigration and pro-intervention. Offcourse sprinkled with the nuances of there respective nations. If you are such a conservative worthy of the term, where is your "american spirit" gone to? Only you and your chosen few? Seems very nazistic of me, which brings me to.

b) Nazi's were narcissists of the highest order, only found in times of dictatorships spanning our earth's history. They were the vile that rears it head whenever the thinking of the masses gets pulled down the gutter by the few who feel they are beraved off all their rightfull gains and wish to blame any who can be blamed with ease.

c) We got what, a handfull of terrorists out of millions? When are you guys going to close all the schools in the US? There are some schoolgo-ers that which to terrorize the rest, clearly you should demonize all the children for being terrorists!

 

You aren't a rascist in the term used in most dictionary's, heck nearly all who get that label aren't it. What you are is a libertarian, a narcisist, a person using the biological and moral feelings of family and stamping it on just yourself and the select few you deem "worthy". You don't just feel the need to berate people of "wrong thoughts" (something everyone does, I do it here), but you feel the need to condemn them aswell. To diminish there excistance on the sole thought of "me speaks truth".

 

The EU made itself into a multicultural place because the moment 1 culture feels the need to surpress another, all hell breaks lose. Are we more enlightend then the Middle East? Perhaps yes as a society, but definatly not as individuals. Both realms have there virtues, both realms have there vices, both realms are currently inhabiting this world and denying that truth is belitteling your own belief that God created this world for all.
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It's not the people, it's the religion that makes them bat-shit crazy mass murderers. They don't want to fix it, they don't want our help to fix it, so we really have no choice. We will not do nothing while they move in and execute our people. We can always drill through the glass to get the oil, so no loss there. I saw Obama and Putin talking today at G20... I wonder what they are coming up with?

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Its the culture, of which religion is a part. You'd have the same reaction to 18th century USA. Society everywhere doesn't follow a the same linear path. Nor does the whole of society follow the same path guiding the society itself. Yes you got "bat-shit crazy" people in the Middle East. Last I checked we got those everywhere.
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Looks like France hit Raqqa... that didn't take long... what are the odds that France would lead this fight?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/france-drops-20-bombs-islamic-6838318
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/11/15/french-jets-target-isis-in-raqqa/?intcmp=hpbt1

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Right, like they have been doing for some time now...

[Lysistrata]

Hi Betsy... Being a conservative can be reduced down to one simple statement... Do not do anything that you are not capable of taking full responsibility for. It goes for just about anything you can think of. This is what I fight liberals over all the time. They love to make what they feel is a problem, a problem for everyone.

 

Plainly speaking my opinions is what I do a lot of here. Please do not think I am stating that other people are not entitled to their own... but if you are making a personal false judgment about me, or somehow saying that I am not entitled to my own opinion because you hate conservatives... I will call you out on that.

[onbekende]

"Do not do anything that you are not capable of taking full responsibility for"

 

That is not conservatism, that is morality.

 

This doesn't mean your conservatism doesn't convey said line, this is my a) about current value's.

[Lysistrata]

If that is your definition of conservative, then liberals are extremely immoral. That works for me too.

[onbekende]

liberals are the "american dream" people. Atleast in the europe thats what they are. Again, definitions aren't the same everywhere.

[Shahenshah]

It's not the people, it's the religion that makes them bat-shit crazy mass murderers. They don't want to fix it, they don't want our help to fix it, so we really have no choice. We will not do nothing while they move in and execute our people. We can always drill through the glass to get the oil, so no loss there. I saw Obama and Putin talking today at G20... I wonder what they are coming up with?

Your "help" most of the time has been going to extremist millitias to topple regimes who end up kicking out moderates and slashing their throats or it goes to brutal dictators or corrupt rubber stamp politicians. That's the summary of your last few interventions.

It's not the people, it's the religion that makes them bat-shit crazy mass murderers. They don't want to fix it, they don't want our help to fix it, so we really have no choice. We will not do nothing while they move in and execute our people. We can always drill through the glass to get the oil, so no loss there. I saw Obama and Putin talking today at G20... I wonder what they are coming up with?

Your "help" most of the time has been going to extremist millitias to topple regimes who end up kicking out moderates and slashing their throats or it goes to brutal dictators or corrupt rubber stamp politicians. That's the summary of your last few interventions.

Now, of course some people are naturally a bit wary about your "help".
Edit: wierd double post.

Edited by Shahenshah, 17 November 2015 - 04:22 AM.

[Icewolf]

Hi Ice... It took you a while to type all that out... makes me wonder what your investment is. You believe we have an immigration problem, that we have a moral obligation, and signed documents, that say we must allow refugees into our countries.

I have a few questions just to get an idea of how your brain works...

So how many people have to die before you call it a terrorist problem?
When does our moral obligation become a suicide pact?
When do we take their death threats seriously and understand that they have declared war on us all?
Bernie Sanders said last night that terrorism is caused by "climate change"... Do you agree?
Can you say... "Radical Islam"?

I don't know where you live... from our conversations, I'll take a guess at the UK. Please refresh my memory... how many German refugees did England take care of during WW2? We put our Japanese in camps, over 100,000 of them. We do what we must during a time of war, and this is war.

On my phone so a fairly short response.

I don't like the term radical islam because it supposes the actions are linked to and carried out under a legitimate form of islam, and IS is not a legitimate form of Islam.

The UK took in refugees in world war 2 through the kindertransport scheme. In hindsight it should have taken far more aa tgose not taken died.

I never said it was a terrorist problem instead I said it shouldn't be treated as a pure immigration problem. The overwhelming majority of attackers are french nationals which means that the current immigration issues are not a direct cause, and therefore ut is hard to see why our moral and legal obligations are voided.

I haven't seen Sandera comment but certainly climate change creates conditions that make it easier for terrorists to recruit, such as displaced populations, food shortages and economic disruption.

[ccabal86]

I don't like the term radical islam because it supposes the actions are linked to and carried out under a legitimate form of islam, and IS is not a legitimate form of Islam.

Yes it is. What makes you think it isn't?

[Lysistrata]

Yep, just what I thought.

 

Thank you for the Kindertransport answer... 10,000 Jewish children before the war started, the little Nazi's need not apply. Plenty of time to convert them into little British soldiers. Their parents that were not invited were grateful I'm sure. I wonder if anyone came up with an idea to determine which Germans were the legitimate Germans? I know... sounds crazy doesn't it?

 

Okay we'll make you a deal... We'll take all of the Christians, and all of the children... you take their parents.

 

I woke up this morning and low and behold... climate change!... it's 46 degrees outside in Las Vegas. How did that happen? But you know, I still don't feel like killing anyone. Maybe because displaced populations, food shortages, and economic disruptions are caused by war... not the weather. The mid-east was sand before... and it's still sand.

 

I know many, many, let's just say... a whole helluva lot of liberals. They are all wonderful people... then they start talking about what they "feel" needs to be done, and I just smile at them, nod my head, and say "You're a lunatic aren't you?"

[Icewolf]

The UK took in adult refugees as well who escaped from the advancing German army.

In any case the fact is that was largely carried out by French nationals. So linking it to the refugee situation is largely a sideshow.

Also the middle east is not just sand. There are plenty of farms and oasis there. When water sources run dry and crops fail populations move and suffer. When floods increase and sea levels rise it damages economies and displaces people.

Somali piracy and the attached funding for groups now linked to Islamic state arose after overfishing ended legitimate ways to earn money. What do you think will happen if ocean temperature and acidity changes wipes out the coral reefs and ends half the world's fishing?

[onbekende]

Well the UK has been good for Belgium on the refugee side.

 

And if you want to complain about WWII, the war was just a tad faster that time, not much time to flee.

 

And for the "only kids", the first refugees in Suria were also woman and children, you don't happen to know why most of the men didn't flee now do you?

[Lysistrata]

Okay, You believe all this is caused by climate change. I don't believe that... I believe you either have a liberal agenda, or you follow those who do. I'm still against bringing Syrian refugees to the United States. So what now?

[Yehom]

Okay, You believe all this is caused by climate change. I don't believe that... I believe you either have a liberal agenda, or you follow those who do. I'm still against bringing Syrian refugees to the United States. So what now?

It's so much easier to talk about refugees if there is an Atlantic Ocean separating you and the problem right?

[Lysistrata]

Yes it is easier, but they are still coming. That's why NATO should declare war and wipe these guys out, but Obama will not do a thing. I think he smoked a doob and just wants to meditate on what he called "a setback". Disgraceful.

[Imran Ehsan]

All this ado about one attack. Western media bias at its most shameful display and the racists and atheists jumping up and down in glee. Where is your outrage about the Lebanon bombing? Somehow western lives are more valuable? Its reinforces your views that muslims are the evil incarnate. ISIS killing other muslims doesnt fit your propaganda..so safely push it under the rug so that you can paint all muslims by the example of some fanatic killers who were actually the direct result of western fuckups in the mid-east region.

 

But for some in Beirut, that solidarity was mixed with anguish over the fact that just one of the stricken cities — Paris — received a global outpouring of sympathy akin to the one lavished on the United States after the 9/11 attacks.

Monuments around the world lit up in the colors of the French flag; presidential speeches touted the need to defend “shared values;” Facebook offered users a one-click option to overlay their profile pictures with the French tricolor, a service not offered for the Lebanese flag. On Friday the social media giant even activated Safety Check, a feature usually reserved for natural disasters that lets people alert loved ones that they are unhurt; they had not activated it the day before for Beirut.

“When my people died, no country bothered to light up its landmarks in the colors of their flag,” Elie Fares, a Lebanese doctor, wrote on his blog. “When my people died, they did not send the world into mourning. Their death was but an irrelevant fleck along the international news cycle, something that happens in those parts of the world.”

The implication, numerous Lebanese commentators complained, was that Arab lives mattered less. Either that, or that their country — relatively calm despite the war next door — was perceived as a place where carnage is the norm, an undifferentiated corner of a basket-case region.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/world/middleeast/beirut-lebanon-attacks-paris.html?_r=0