Chaplain of death, on 24 Apr 2016 - 19:54, said:
Rhizoctonia, on 24 Apr 2016 - 19:29, said:
Robert2424, on 24 Apr 2016 - 18:08, said:
In Red is exactly what I've been trying to say. A tracker wouldn't know the action used, nor would anything he learns point to it. The red residue found in no way points to the action I did nor suggest what it was. Yet people are hung up on that
Robert2424, on 24 Apr 2016 - 18:51, said:
Vote Count: (In progress up to this point).
4(Rhizo), by Imran, chaplain, D3mon, The Doom
It's actually 6 I think now...Kevin has voted for me, and SM. Certainly not wanting to by lynched, but figured I'd help keep the number right
Chaplain of death, on 24 Apr 2016 - 19:05, said:
Rhizoctonia, on 24 Apr 2016 - 01:07, said:
I don't know why Mod put red residue, but he didn't specify what the residue was. If it was blood, I'd assume he'd specify it. Red-X character as far as I can read doesn't leave a red residue, and Imran didn't see me kill him like he suspects. It could just as easily been residue with changing into red plasma form, or if he tracked me to where Shah was, it could of been blood from Red-x killing him. You're lynching me off of Imran simply tracking me that I met with Shah
I don't think it was blood. I think it was residue from the X's used by Red X (AKA you).
Sister Midnight, on 24 Apr 2016 - 02:45, said:
If you suspected D3mon, why didn't you investigate him and not Shah? That doesn't make sense. I'm confused as hell right now.
And yes, Rhizo, you have a certain sexy something about you.
Because he has no new information to give the town because his role claim is most likely fake, or he got very unlucky. If he isn't scum, that's a very bad circumstance for us, but we have to act based on the information available to us, and the information available to us indicates that he is scum.
Again, as Robert has just confirmed, a tracker finding some red residue implies nothing to the action used. A tracker doesn't gain that information, nor is it implied. You can't use some red residue as proof of anything. The mere fact it's known that information found by the tracker doesn't imply or suggest an action, should automatically cancel the idea I killed him, because otherwise it's going against everything Robert just said.
Literally, the evidence one finds as a tracker shouldn't imply any action done, because it's not meant to. The only thing that he can truthfully know is I visited Shah. Red residue may just be Robert's way of saying he tracked me...I don't know what Robert meant by red residue. The only thing I can speculate is it's residue from me having the ability to change into an energy form of red plasma. It could be residue from the radiation of my character, or me using my energy to fly around as seen in this picture
All of which are a probability, the red residue being from me killing Shah is literally not, because that alone would imply the action I took, and since Imran was the one to discover the red residue using tracker, that completely takes it out of the equation of being proof i killed him.
You're right. The red residue isn't a piece of solid information to rely on. So lets look at facts.
You performed an action on Shah
Shah is now dead
You claim you performed an action which provides no new information and therefore there is no way to confirm (scum tactic, but could be true)
You could very well be telling the truth...... BUT, we have to act on the information we have. The information we have places suspicion on you and you have no real evidence with which to counter claim. Therefore we have to act on that suspicion.
If only you and others actually listened to me, instead of using this red residue as somehow damning to me, or proving I killed Shah or I was Red-X. Imran claimed the red residue found indicated I was red-X, you yourself claimed Imran found evidence I was Red-X, and because I couldn't explain the red residue I was it. You both have used this red residue as some evidence against me, and for days now I've had to defend not only myself about it, but say over and over again that a tracker wouldn't find anything to implicate any action, yet you kept ignoring it, all the while I've said have no idea what the red residue means, as neither Red-X nor my Character leaves behind such residue, but that it proves nothing.
So yea, it's quite obvious you completely ignore my arguments and the fact I've been correct this whole time while continuing to use it as a case against me. Not until Mod finally got the shits of people using the red residue as something more then it was, and me calling you out for the umpteenth time did you finally now say, o yea it isn't proof...yet this whole time this is what you been using to claim it's me.
Example:
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problem here. Imran found evidence of Red X and you claim to be Red Star, and your only evidence of your role is information that is already public. Also does not address the red residue.
Welp, your first claim Imran found evidence I was Red-X is completely false. You're right, evidence of my role was known, what I've already been over and stated there was no need for me to claim to have did an action on Shah when the information wasn't helpful. Hell I even answered Mandarijn about what such action I did, and repeated for him again the result was nothing of help. And lastly, not addressing the Red Residue, which in fact I didn't need to, and have said so over and over, thankfully the Mod finally spoke up to claim what I have been saying all along.
And you have hardly any evidence against me. You have I visited Shah, that's it. Nothing more, nothing less, that's it. Again, you want me to claim some new information to prove I'm innocent, which is stupid as one can not suddenly make up some new information for pleasing you. I stated before Mandarijn asked that my action gave no further information, I really didn't care to state my action, simply did so I could be forthcoming as Imran already had people turned against me. I knew if I didn't actually say my action, I'd hear the "o he's guilty because he wont admit what action he took" story.
The Warrior, on 25 Apr 2016 - 14:02, said:
Robert2424, on 25 Apr 2016 - 01:20, said:
Red resideue was in a hallway at titans tower. A tracker role couldn't find red residue. The Red Residue was for flavor. I never PM'd Imran "You found red residue". Though I'm getting the feeling somehow those words were somehow placed in my mouth. Its a story people. Red Residue is simply flavor. The fight downtown means exactly what it says. Obvously there was another fight. Just in a differnt location.
So Imran did not actually receive any information that said he found red residue. All we know is that he tracked Rhizo and saw Rhizo visit Shah who is now deceased. If no one else visited Shah last night, then it is clear that Rhizo killed him. Which means that if Rhizo is the JOAT that he claims to be, he would have actually used a vigilante role and not a cop role. But if this was the case, he wouldn't have any reason to lie about it and doing so would only further implicate him. The only three possibilities as I see it are that Rhizo is telling the truth (and is incredibly unlucky) and someone else visited Shah as well, Rhizo is lying and is scum, or Rhizo is lying and is a SK. Two of the three possibilities are negative for us.
Unless someone else can provide any additional information that would either: 1) Show that someone else visited Shah as well, or 2) Indicate exactly what type of action Rhizo performed on Shah, our best option seems to be Rhizo and we have until tomorrow night at the latest to figure it out.
TheDoom, on 25 Apr 2016 - 07:36, said:
Can Town have more than 1 JOAT role? I mean can 2 townies have same roles ?
In theory, yes. It is unlikely that there is more than one town JOAT though in my opinion since the JOAT is a reasonably powerful role.
No one is going to come forward. There could be others that did actions on shah that produced nothing of significance or dispute Imran's claim, or mine. There's no reason for them to role claim, most seem to believe Imran's theory besides the fact the only information or damning information is I visited Shah, but doesn't know what action, nor have proof of my role.
Funny thing is, no one else has stepped forward denying or saying they performed an action or any additional information....I'm the only one singled out and no one has a problem.
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I beg to differ. If you admitted first up that yes you had visited Shah, this would have given you crazy townie points. Because no scum in their right mind will admit to visiting the target they had just killed when they dont know for sure if anyone saw/tracked them to the kill. If you had admitted that you visited Shah, before I revealed that I had tracked you, I would have been giving you the benefit of doubt. But you did not. In fact your posts regarding this are also a bit contradictory.
Why wouldn't they? I mean, why couldn't a scum come forward and say they visited and said exactly what you think a Normal Townie would say, "I did an action on Shah, it provided no additional information, and i don't want to say what role i am." In your eyes, that would give them townie points. They wouldn't because they know they would be in the hot seat because they're admitting to visiting someone who died that night, and if no further evidence comes forward from N1, they would either be hounded to admit what role they used, or likely be target number 1 as it's the only one to have visited, and like you're saying to me, can't provide any more helpful information to prove you weren't the one. I've already stated why I didn't say, and that there was no point because I had no additional information. And sorry, we will agree to disagree, because you surely wouldn't give me the benefit of the doubt. You already thought I was scum, you tracked me and I visited someone who was killed that night...it wouldn't matter had I said I did or didn't respond like I did. We'd be at the point we're now with no one coming forth with any other information and your want to lynch someone even on D1, that you'd look to have my lynched because I was the only one known to have visited him, and if I refused to say my action, you would only look to use that as more proof. Sorry, I don't believe you one bit that me saying right away I visited him would have any effect, you thought I was Scum, you had evidence I visited him, and that's all you'd need. Hell that's all you need at this point to lynch me, because that's the only information you have.
I already figured you suspected me before I replied (before you came out as tracking me). You singled me out of everyone who reacted after Shah was killed asking my thoughts and why I think he would. I knew you obviously had your eye on me. It had me thinking, that I should come forward I did an action, but I didn't want to roleclaim simply on someone up to this point having suspicion, or expose my role when it led to no information to say anyway.
Also, please feel free to point my contradictions you speak of, because I certainly don't know what you're speaking of. Don't through out such claims without examples, so I can at least address where you think I contradict myself
After I asked you whats your thoughts in this matter, you said:
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So according to you, he wasnt interesting at all to warrant scum targetting him. But he was interesting to you, so much so that you used your extremely valuable Cop action on him:
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In regards to why Shah was targeted, I'm not sure why he would be....there was nothing all that exciting that happened on the first day to make him a target, so don't know what the rationale would be.
You asked why he would be a target. The reason for a Scum to target Shah, and my reason for using an action on Shah are completely different. I don't know why would target Shah, as I'm not scum, so I'm not sure their rationale. I targeted Shah because I suspected him as Scum, which obviously wound't be the same reason a Scum would target him, as they knew he wasn't scum.
You wanted me to answer for why a Scum would target him. That's quite hard to do when I don't know why they would, and I stand by my statement, nothing happened or did anything that would make a Scum worry about Shah, so I literally have no idea. Me speculating why a Scum would target him when nothing happened nor any roles known is as good a guess as you could make. I'm not scum, I don't know, they must of had their reasons, for which I don't know and exactly what I stated.
So again, I don't know what you're getting at. I chose to do cop action on Shah because I suspected he was Scum, Scum's reasoning for killing Scum is unknown to me, and nothing that happened in D1 would make me able to guess. I answered the exact question you asked me, why would Scum target him.
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So you did not think he did anything interesting to be the target of a kill before I revealed my action, but shortly afterwards he becomes someone extremely important that you used your night action on.
By the way, this was Shah's second game. He is not extremely experienced as you seem to be claiming. I am pretty sure d3mon has played a lot more games than Shah.
Again, addressed above. My rationale for using my night action and the rationale for a Scum to kill him are two different. You asked why a scum would target him, I don't know, nor do I see any information out there that he was someone they needed to get first. To me, I suspected he was scum, and my gut said so, so I used my night action to find out. Scum wouldn't suspect he was scum, because they know he's not.
Again, this is my first Mafia game, I don't know who'll has played, or how much. What I do know is I knew he had, as he was the one pushing people including myself to come play, thus he was real into it, so assumed he was probably experienced to be this into it and gain new players.
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Well to me thats what a normal reaction to a real townie will be. Your response was contradictory and after-the-fact.
Which is fine, you have what you would think is the normal reaction for a townie. I feel my explanation on why I didn't say I did an action at first speaks for itself. If you can't believe that by now, I know I am not going to. But again, I am learning to ropes on this whole thing this game.
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No. Town JOATs are pretty common. That was not my point. My point was its a very very convenient fake claim for the scum. It would be more believable if you could give us new information that is not known by everyone. You cant so there is no way of confirming your role. Your choice of action is also very very convenient. You happened to investigate the only player in the game who is 100% townie. You happened to target the Cop for a cop action who was killed by Red X, while your name is also similar Red Star. You gave me red residue when I tracked you, while you seem to be claiming the red residue I found is not from Red X. Do you have any info to link where it says Red Star leaves red residue. I mean talk about coincidences.
I mean at the end of the day, I have given concrete information that you visited Shah. You did not dispute this claim so I am providing correct new information.
On the other hand, you cant provide new information, all your claims are after-the-fact and most of what you claim is only possible where you are very very unlucky in terms of
1. Similar name to Scum killer
2. Targetting the same person as Scum
3. Leaving red residue which actually seems to point to Red X
4. Having an ability that is a very convenient fake claim
5. Using an ability and getting no new information with that ability.
Way to many coincidences or you are the unluckiest guy in the world. 
Again, with this damn red residue. I would hope by now, and after the Mod has spoken, you and Chaplain stop using this as evidence. It's not. Mod has said it means absolutely nothing. So please, quit using it as proof of I killed shah or my Character. As I said already in this post in response to Chaplain, I've said over and over that the red residue does not indicate anything of significance, but you kept trying to use it as it was, and claiming that's proof of Red-X yet my character and Red Star as far as I can tell neither leave red, but you continued on with red residue meant Red-X when there was absolutely no proof Red-X would leave red residue, and the fact I couldn't explain it, meant what you think was true. All the while I've said over and over and over that a tracker only knows who his target, targeted. You would not get evidence of my character nor the action I did, and finally Mod spoke to prove I've been right all along while you forced me to try to explain some red residue crap when it meant nothing, as I said multiple times.
Name - Yea, sorry that their are two characters in Teen Titans with similar names. I can't help the names the mod picks. A similar name proves absolutely nothing, it's a damn character name. If you think I'm lying about this all, why wouldn't I pick a name not even close. Sorry, can't help the name given to me, please explain how this is proof. There's few instance of Teen Titans Characters with similar names, ex: Starfire & Blackfire, Kid Flash & Speedy, Kitten & Pantha, Thunder and lightning....probably more. Because two roles have red in them means something? Come on now
And using a convenient role/not getting new information. Again, I have the role that was given to me and the actions that come with it. I've already explained I believed Shah and D3mon were scum, and I picked Shah to investigate. He wound up dead, for which the mod announced his role. I'm sorry that because the Mod told his role, I had no other information to give. Again, I can't just make something unknown appear, being a cop tells me what it tells me. The fact I can't provide any new information means I did it is a bogus, I can't help the action I made didn't give me anything more. I already explained this was the very reason I didn't admit I did an action on Shah, because I had no new information to give so there was no point, and I didn't plan on exposing the role I did even after I roleclaimed, but did just to appease Mandarijn, but you even said, you are fine with people not saying what action they took as long as they say it didn't provide any new information. Well I in fact took it one step further and said what I did...I don't know what more you want, as I'm going above what have stated you're fine with.
If you and Chaplain wouldn't have wasted days using this red residue as proof against me, and me continually having to defend myself that it isn't, maybe you'd be getting more information from other people or targeting the people you should be. But instead, you continued to, and unfortunately Mod was away for a day or so before he was able to post exactly what I've said all along, and that you trying to use it against me is absolutely crap. I said all along a tracker would not find anything to suggest action or role, as you don't get that as tracker, and all along you ignored it and kept using it. This is my first mafia game, and even I know this from reading a wiki. You'll are more experienced and should know this, but instead you kept using it as some type of proof when you knew it wasn't, wasting my time defending myself about it over and over, and wasting time addressing real information or the people you should be targeting.
I think it's absolute crap that you have used it to push a lynch on me and used it to persuade people. You've wasted time and a whole day looking to lynch a fellow townie, instead of looking to find the real scum. There's no one else to lynch, because you've made it all about me, and mostly false claims and false evidence, and pretty terrible evidence like "two similiar names," like that means something. I would love to know why if I was looking to fake roleclaim, why I wouldn't pick a name completely different. Can't help the names Mod gives.
The facts are, you know I met Shah. Period, that's it. Not my role, not my character, not what action I took, nor some red residue BS. I've explained why I didn't say right away I did an action on him, and if people can't actually see my reasoning, I can't help it. But that's all you have, and you'll get your wish likely to lynch me because you've wasted the day only after me, and "there's no one else," which is crap to kill a townie simply because of that. It didn't matter if I said it first or after you admitted you tracked me, that seems to be the only information known or information people want to speak out about, and I'd be in the same boat as I am either way, because you have your mind made up, and somehow got many on board with no proof other then I did an action on Shah.
To add, since this is my first game. I'm not sure how Scum usually look to help defend a fellow Scum from being lynched...but I would think they would try. Look at what's unfolded, where has anyone looked to help me? If I was scum, I wouldn't think they would want one of their own after D2. No, no one has because the scum know I'm not scum and are likely the ones pushing the lynch by voting for me. So any true townie, keep a close eye if I get lynched, Scum is likely a few of those names.
Anyway, rant over. I'm personally sick of defending myself over bogus claims and people trying to use red residue as proof of anything when Mod finally has said it's not and I been right all along. The mere fact the Mod has said he never included anything about red residue in his PM to Imran is proof enough he's wasted your time, as the information he gains from his action is PM'd. He knew finding it was not a result of him tracking me but kept using it anyway. It's truely whatever, but quite aggravating time wasted continually repeating the same thing over and over and trying to somehow explain some red residue to prove my innocence.
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