288 replies to this topic

[onbekende]

In this thread, Republicans find that Capitalism and freedom have ruined USA.

[DeathMerchant]

I asked my brother in law who served in the Navy on the USS Virginia. The Virginia is an attack sub, not one that carries nuclear missiles, but he did work in the nuclear reactor room so he has a good understanding of classified material. He said he isn't aware of any rules she broke on revealing that information, but he did admit to not knowing how that specific type of classified intelligence is handled.

So I did a little research and that didnt turn up any violations. Although a few people within the US Intelligence community have come out and said that while certain classified intelligence might be borderline common knowledge, or published in academic papers it is still a violation of your Security Clearance to divulge classified information to unauthorized individuals without prior approval. However, I did find that US land based nuclear missiles take approximately 5 minutes to launch, while ballistic missile subs take up to 15 minutes. So the 4 minute launch time she stated is close but still inaccurate.

While I don't think it was wise of her to give a timeframe, I am willing to chalk it up to she was simply paraphrasing and picked a number close to the actual timeframe. The more I've looked into it, I doubt any serious harm was done.

[SeaBeeGipson]

I asked my brother in law who served in the Navy on the USS Virginia. The Virginia is an attack sub, not one that carries nuclear missiles, but he did work in the nuclear reactor room so he has a good understanding of classified material. He said he isn't aware of any rules she broke on revealing that information, but he did admit to not knowing how that specific type of classified intelligence is handled.
So I did a little research and that didnt turn up any violations. Although a few people within the US Intelligence community have come out and said that while certain classified intelligence might be borderline common knowledge, or published in academic papers it is still a violation of your Security Clearance to divulge classified information to unauthorized individuals without prior approval. However, I did find that US land based nuclear missiles take approximately 5 minutes to launch, while ballistic missile subs take up to 15 minutes. So the 4 minute launch time she stated is close but still inaccurate.
While I don't think it was wise of her to give a timeframe, I am willing to chalk it up to she was simply paraphrasing and picked a number close to the actual timeframe. The more I've looked into it, I doubt any serious harm was done.

I was a little surprised she mentioned it. It is open knowledge, not illegal what she did. It is careless to make that wide public knowledge. We have a tremendously amazing defense system in place to counteract some nuclear launches (that, however, is classified how it works.) I don't feel her giving that information to the public is damaging to us at all. The only thing it did was scared the public by saying "oh wow, 4 minutes for a nuke launch?"

I will admit, I did freeze a bit when she said that. I was praying she would stop there. (Lets not forget the democratic party member, Joe Biden, pointed out one of the 3 active men with launch codes. Scary when officials start mentioning nuclear stuff because stuff seems to 'slip out'.)

I think this last debate was rather typical of what we would expect. Im just glad we don't have to suffer through a fourth one. At this point, we don't have much hope either way. Good luck for the next 4 years guys. We can survive this.

[Icewolf]

I think actually the point is worth the public being more aware of. It doesn't do harm as it is already publicly available. But the fact that decisions are needed so quickly and are taken by fallible people is something that should be kept in mind when considering the current state of world affairs, and ensuring that we don't allow leaders to play brinkmanship and ensure people are elected who can take rationale decisions under pressure.

Which is why Clinton brought it up. If you can't tweet rationally at 5am you probably can't take the nuclear decision at 5 am.

[hilowe]

Although a few people within the US Intelligence community have come out and said that while certain classified intelligence might be borderline common knowledge, or published in academic papers it is still a violation of your Security Clearance to divulge classified information to unauthorized individuals without prior approval.

 

If I remember correctly, this general topic was discussed in relation to her email server.  I don't remember specifics, but I think it was in relation to drone attacks (a specific one, maybe?).  Hilary had someone tell her what she did was a violation of her clearance in that specific instance, and her defense was essentially, it was published in the papers, so we thought it wasn't classified anymore since everyone was talking about it.  Now I'm going to have to go do some internet searching to find that, and refresh my memory.

[Canik]

Well I've finally decided I will support Hillary in the end. As bad as her & the DNC may have been, I have no reason to believe Trump & friends will be any better. Trump has said many times indirectly that he will do whatever he can get away with. That's what he said to Billy Bush. That's what he's said about hiring illegals, outsourcing and buying Chinese steel. And there are many other reasons to believe Trump won't be some pure saint & savior that many far-right Republicans seem to believe he is.

So, in terms of corruption I see them fairly equal and for me it comes down to Presidential leadership and issues. Both of which Hillary wins for me. I like her tax plan better, I'll probably like the justices she appoints better. I like her calm demeanor better. Trump saying the elections are rigged and refusing to confirm that he will concede have only pushed me farther into Hillary's camp.

I really hope the next Republican nominee is smart enough to take the good parts of Trump's campaign and drop the bad. I came into this election very interested in switching sides if a good Republican candidate was running. Unfortunately I was presented with Trump instead.

 

[Lysistrata]

Well I've finally decided I will support Hillary in the end.

Cool! Will you return to us in two years and take responsibility for that decision?

[SeaBeeGipson]

Vote Dwanye Johnson. Can the world smell what we are cooking?

[Icewolf]

Well I've finally decided I will support Hillary in the end.

In what sense? Because Trump refuses to have a consistent or even coherent position there is no threshold against which to measure a Clinton Presidency.
Cool! Will you return to us in two years and take responsibility for that decision?

[Lysistrata]

Sabo strikes again. He's the guy in Los Angeles that made my "The Deplorables" T-Shirt. This hits the streets just in time for The Walking Dead premier on Sunday. President Hillary will hurt more than "Lucille". LMAO!

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/anti-hillary-walking-dead-posters-940681

[Lysistrata]

 

 

Well I've finally decided I will support Hillary in the end.

In what sense? Because Trump refuses to have a consistent or even coherent position there is no threshold against which to measure a Clinton Presidency.
Cool! Will you return to us in two years and take responsibility for that decision?

 

Hmm... Is this a European thing? I can't tell if you're trying to put words in my mouth, trying to respond to Canik and blaming your confusion on me, or if you're trying to respond to me while intoxicated. Maybe we should replace Hillary with Theresa May?

[onbekende]

Seems the broader libel laws are still on the table for Trump.

[Icewolf]

Well I've finally decided I will support Hillary in the end.

In what sense? Because Trump refuses to have a consistent or even coherent position there is no threshold against which to measure a Clinton Presidency.
Cool! Will you return to us in two years and take responsibility for that decision?

Hmm... Is this a European thing? I can't tell if you're trying to put words in my mouth, trying to respond to Canik and blaming your confusion on me, or if you're trying to respond to me while intoxicated. Maybe we should replace Hillary with Theresa May?

The basic point is how do you determine in 2 years if Trump would have been a better President?

Is he supposed to come back and say "yeah still glad I didn't vote for an unhinged narcissistic sexual predator?" Because that is pretty low bar. You can't compare policy outcomes because that requires Trump to have policy rather than a garbled mess.

What exactly is he supposed to be taking responsibility for?

[Canik]

Thanks, Icewolf. You're right there is no real way to compare it when the other presidency didn't really happen and is pure theory. Even if Hillary doesn't do well, Trump's could have been worse just as easily.

If what Lysis what trying to get at though is do I think I can live with my vote, that is a question voters should ask themselves.

And my answer is: I believe I am less likely to terribly regret my vote with Hillary. I don't believe she's going to end the 2nd amendment or start WWIII or any of that stuff that the far-right believes she will do. She will just maintain the current status quo, more or less, which isn't perfect but things could be worse.
 

[Sister Midnight]

I stopped reading this thread after my last post, and I have not looked at what anyone has said since then. In other words, I still have no idea what is going on in this thread at this very moment, but I decided a little levity is much in order:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=-kjyltrKZSY

I love that in the sketch Hillary calls herself a republican, because in real life, that is what she is. The republicans' rock star, Ronald Reagan, was more liberal than Hillary on many issues.

Still not looking back at what y'all have been saying, but I have been hearing people calling tRump an unamerican, tangerine stain on the buttocks of humanity. If he loses the election and there are riots and people are hurt or killed, he will feel vindicated. Whether he wins or loses, what a freaking pathetic loser!

[Lysistrata]

Thanks, Icewolf. You're right there is no real way to compare it when the other presidency didn't really happen and is pure theory. Even if Hillary doesn't do well, Trump's could have been worse just as easily.

If what Lysis what trying to get at though is do I think I can live with my vote, that is a question voters should ask themselves.

And my answer is: I believe I am less likely to terribly regret my vote with Hillary. I don't believe she's going to end the 2nd amendment or start WWIII or any of that stuff that the far-right believes she will do. She will just maintain the current status quo, more or less, which isn't perfect but things could be worse.
 

I really appreciate this reply. The debates are all history now, so this thread is pretty much done, but you nailed the essence of my question to you. Can you live with it?

 

She will go after the guns... they have done it before. Her husband, President William J. Clinton... you know that one guy in all of this that is an actual sexual predator? Well, he signed the assault weapons ban of 1994. The only way they got it passed was it had a sunset clause, and it contributed to Republicans taking over both houses of Congress for the first time in 4 decades. In 2004, it went away, and they have been trying to bring it back, and make it permanent, ever since. This stupid law mostly just severely restricted the way semi-automatic weapons looked. A Ruger Mini-14 was cool... but if you made it "look" like a machine gun... well that is just illegal. Yeah, that makes sense.

 

Everything Hillary Clinton has ever done, supported, or voted for, was only to add titles or talking points to her resume for her run for President. This is why no one can put their finger on where she stands on anything. Everything she says, and everything she has done, was for her own political gain. It didn't even matter if people died for it. It's always been about her. This is why she can never tell the truth, and everything is for her protection.

 

When the evil Donald Trump is defeated... do you really believe everyone will just forget about all she has done and come together for a better tomorrow? We are due for another recession... it is coming, and due to the actions of the Obama syndicate, we have never had a recovery from the last one. The only things that saved the 90's economy from the Clinton's was Bill actually worked with the Republican Congress to make positive changes, plus that new marketplace called "The Internet". That will not happen again, and there is now absolutely no confidence in any part of the Federal Government at any level, now that even the FBI is compromised.

 

Back in 2008, Barack Obama ran his campaign on taxing the rich. They are not paying "their fair share". We are still hearing the same thing from Democrats today. After 8 years of Obama size tax increases... the question is still the same... What is "their fair share"? Already the top 5% of income earners pay 70% of Federal Income Tax, and the National Debt has still doubled to 20 trillion dollars under Obama. Clinton wants to raise them even higher, which will force even more people out of the workforce... we have 94 million Americans already... not working, and not paying a fair share.

 

The only thing that will correct our economy, is to lower taxes and renegotiate the trade deals. This would bring the money back in, and those evil rich people would build manufacturing plants to make our country work again... but we can't do that because he said he wanted to grab some pussy. Jonathan Gruber once said that their most valuable tool is the stupidity of the American voter. Well everybody... here are the American voters.

[Rhizoctonia]

I can't live with voting either, thus I don't plan to.  They both are a stain on our country...to be quite frank I'd rather see Obama stay another year and wash this whole election cycle and start again from Nov on with new people.  I've never been as ashamed of the American people as I am with these being the top two people we wanted.  

In regards to the debates...my opinion on the last two Donald Trump was able to keep from completely running the trains of the track and officially be the end (still think it's 90% over), while Hillary just had to simply stroll through them and not do anything stupid.  They both were able to do what they needed to do, Trump not completely self imploding and Hillary just playing it safe...the problem is, Trump was able to hit a bit harder during them, but the damage has already been done.  He left a slim possibility to win...but in all realistic in is very likely not going to happen.  The only thing that honestly could save him is there was a huge bombshell of a reveal from Wikileaks or someone else that really destroyed Hillary...and even then I'm not sure at this point it would matter.  They've revealed some corruption already through the leaks, but it's mainly fell on deaf ears because of all that's come out of Trump (his comments during his whole campaign, and the Billy Bush tape, and now all these woman coming out).  The GOP, and well the Republican voters royally screwed up nominating Trump, as likely if there was any possible person has the GOP nominee, they likely would be smooth sailing right now and Clinton would be getting eaten alive with all the wikileaks reveals and DNC corruption.  I don't feel sorry I'm not voting Republican because it's not my fault this SOB is the nominee, and the people who voted him made the decision for me.  Past two elections I voted party lines even not being overly fond of McCain or Romney...but at least I could stomach them.

I disagree with Canik's comment about not ending the 2nd amendment.  She very much will try to limit it as much as possible.  She's already made this known, and it's not something knew, there is plenty of clips and instances that one can read to know she will.  She will do as much as she can possibly do, and hopefully the rest of the Government can stop her from doing so.  I can see her electing judges that will look to severely limit our 2nd amendment rights...that's honestly the only reason I would have for voting Trump.  Depending how far she looks to take it, I could honestly see an uprising occur.

WW3...eh who knows.  There's a lot in play at the moment with what's going on in this world that if it's going to happen, it likely would happen no matter who is in charge.  That being said, I think electing her is only increasing the possibilities of it, but I wont sit here and say her alone with be the only cause...she just may help to keep the flame lit.  

I'm ready for this election to be over and done with.  I honestly don't see Hillary losing this and at this point we my as well get used to her being the next President.  The only chance is Deomcrats aren't rallied enough to actually get out to the polls in vote.  

 

A friend of mine posted this on FB

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/789567429554954240

I'm curious to see what comes of it.  

[Canik]

I disagree with Canik's comment about not ending the 2nd amendment. She very much will try to limit it as much as possible. She's already made this known, and it's not something knew, there is plenty of clips and instances that one can read to know she will. She will do as much as she can possibly do, and hopefully the rest of the Government can stop her from doing so. I can see her electing judges that will look to severely limit our 2nd amendment rights...that's honestly the only reason I would have for voting Trump. Depending how far she looks to take it, I could honestly see an uprising occur.

I wouldn't be surprised if she tried to limit it to some extent. Although if it's mostly just how semi-autos look as Lysis says then sounds more like a silly annoyance than a huge deal that should be top priority.

I would be extremely surprised if she tried to end it or push it so far an uprising might happen.

 

 

 

WW3...eh who knows. There's a lot in play at the moment with what's going on in this world that if it's going to happen, it likely would happen no matter who is in charge. That being said, I think electing her is only increasing the possibilities of it, but I wont sit here and say her alone with be the only cause...she just may help to keep the flame lit.

How so? By not being more forceful? It is hard to say how things will work out. None of us have a crystal ball that can reveal the future but it's hard to imagine our chances go DOWN by being more forceful and say, attacking Russia/Iran/China.
 

 

Everything Hillary Clinton has ever done, supported, or voted for, was only to add titles or talking points to her resume for her run for President. This is why no one can put their finger on where she stands on anything. Everything she says, and everything she has done, was for her own political gain. It didn't even matter if people died for it. It's always been about her. This is why she can never tell the truth, and everything is for her protection.

Whereas Trump ISN'T all about himself? [insert biggest eyeroll ever]

Really there is little to no reason to believe Trump is any better. He hasn't served in office but he's shown corruption in other ways. He's also changed positions at times and lied based on what he thinks is best for him at the time.

[Lysistrata]

Whereas Trump ISN'T all about himself? [insert biggest eyeroll ever] Really there is little to no reason to believe Trump is any better. He hasn't served in office but he's shown corruption in other ways. He's also changed positions at times and lied based on what he thinks is best for him at the time.

Donald Trump will exaggerate to make himself look better, richer, smarter... but that is ego, and it's out in the open where everyone can see it. Hillary Clinton operates in the shadows for power, money, and influence... and doesn't care who it hurts, or kills. Ask John Christopher Stevens... oh wait, you can't, because he's dead. The list would be way too long for me to continue, but you get the point. Donald Trump has never made someone die, and then lie about it to absolve themselves of responsibility.

 

You want to point at Trump University? It's a simple case of someone claiming to be an unsatisfied customer. It's the same as going to Outback Steakhouse, eating dinner, and then sue them... claiming it's not a restaurant. If he didn't run for President, you would have never heard about any of this. All these women coming out saying "he touched me!", is only because he's running for President and it's a couple weeks before election day. If he didn't run... you wouldn't hear about it.

 

He changed positions on issues because he changed party. He used to be a Democrat... until they all turned Socialist.

 

Your argument is very weak... insert biggest eye-roll ever.

 

Edit: Also the fact that he never held elected office is a bonus... he's spent his entire life actually signing the front of paychecks, and not living off the backs of taxpayers.

[DeathMerchant]

 

She will go after the guns... they have done it before. Her husband, President William J. Clinton... you know that one guy in all of this that is an actual sexual predator? Well, he signed the assault weapons ban of 1994. The only way they got it passed was it had a sunset clause, and it contributed to Republicans taking over both houses of Congress for the first time in 4 decades. In 2004, it went away, and they have been trying to bring it back, and make it permanent, ever since. This stupid law mostly just severely restricted the way semi-automatic weapons looked. A Ruger Mini-14 was cool... but if you made it "look" like a machine gun... well that is just illegal. Yeah, that makes sense.

It is only a matter of time at this point and anyone who doesn't think that will happen is only kidding themself. The next time both houses of Congress are in Democrat Control with a Democrat President, an Assault Weapons ban is going to be rammed through in heartbeat, and there will be no sunset clause. Trump was unable to bring in enough people during the debates, Americans don't care they are voting for a corrupt Democrat, and people don't care they are throwing their guaranteed rights away (remember, "Think of the children!").

 

I've been gathering data and here is my expectation for the election. Hillary wins 53% of the popular vote, Trump gets around 47%. Hillary wins the Electoral College by 60-65%, Trump only acquires an absolute max 45% of the Electoral College. The Democrats just barely scrape enough votes to switch the Senate to Democrat control, I'm predicting a +1 (possibly +2) lead over their Republican Senators. My reasoning, Democrat voter participation is at its highest during a Presidential Election. Their party also desperately wants the Senate so they can get their Supreme Court pick. The House of Representatives, regardless of Democrat efforts, will remain firmly in Republican control. Republican currently have 247 seats to the Democrats 188. At this point in time I consider it statistically impossible for the Democrats to regain the House. All of their efforts this year are set on the Presidency and retaking the Senate. They consider the House to be a secondary objective.

 

After Hillary assumes the Presidency she will not immediately go after the 2nd Amendment due to having a split Congress. She will wait until the next mass shooting or whenever the media declares the next national tragedy due to gun violence. Hillary will abide by the Democrat playbook, the part that says "Never let a good tragedy go to waste". That is when the Executive Orders come rolling in and the ATF starts rewording judgments to ban small things (like when they tried to ban Green Tip Ammo and certain ingredients in gun powder), regardless if they are Constitutionally legal. Objections to the legality of these newfound 'rules' will take years to work through the Courts, Courts which will be stacked to the brim by judges picked and chosen by the Hillary Administration.

 

Needless to say no one will actually hand over their weapons. If a national Assault Weapons ban goes into law, I only see 10% of the US population obeying it. Just look at the abysmal compliance rates for the increased gun control in the north eastern states. Liberal New York's compliance rate for the Safe Act was only 4-5%. Imagine more conservative states like Texas or Arizona, you would be hard pressed to even get 0.01% to comply. Its like the Prohibition on Alcohol all over again, no one followed that wonderful law.

 

 

Hillary will give us these 4 bans. Over the years her private rhetoric and political career supports all of these.

1. 'Assault Weapons' banned

2. State Conceal carry permits banned

3. Private firearm transfers banned (Notice how I said transfers not sales. They kill two stones with banning transfers. No more private sales and no more inviting a friend over to try out your firearms. You all have to go to a gun range, pay to run a background check on your friend, and only then he can legally try out your firearm. It is all in the wording, something that big government loves)

4. Private sale of SBRs and Suppressors banned. Sales can only be to other Dealers, Law Enforcement, and Military.