894 replies to this topic

[Martino]

Is it because I don't contribute that much?

That is also part of the reason I voted for you. So far you have only ever given your opinion on something when directly asked for it. That gives me the impression that you have been trying to lay low. Now, I understand that this is your first game, but you should really try to give your opinion a bit more. Although, or may especially because, you are new, you may still notice something that someone else doesn't.

VOTE COUNT
Falzis (2): KevinH, Theophilos
Kaziocore (2): Martino, CanucksDynasty
Sir Jesus (1): Electric Mango

Not Voting (5): Nerau, Sir Jesus, Falzis, Kaziocore, Aquinas

- Nerau still needs replacing, I have no-one lined up, they're all busy. Anyone knows someone / anyone dead wants to do it, shoot me off a PM.

Edited by molestargazer, 12 July 2009 - 02:20 PM.

[KevinH]

CD is the only person that I feel has a really good chance at being a townie.

But not yourself? Hmmm....

[Kaziocore]

Why? Does that make him suspicious???

[Martino]

I just noticed a typo in my previous post. It should be:

That is also part of the reason I voted for you. So far you have only ever given your opinion on something when directly asked for it. That gives me the impression that you have been trying to lay low. Now, I understand that this is your first game, but you should really try to give your opinion a bit more. Although, or maybe especially because, you are new, you may still notice something that someone else doesn't.

[CanucksDynasty]

I know that Falzis and I both voted for the same people on Day 1 and Day 2. I have also gone on record saying that I believed Falzis to be a townie, in fact I said that out of anyone, he was the person I was most sure was a townie. I've played enough games to know that this may subject me to scrutiny as it has done in previous games where I have taken a similar stance. Knowing this going in I still decided to act the way I did because as a townie I believe it is in the towns best interest if I show all my cards. I never try to hold anything back and pride myself on laying it all on the line no matter the consequences. I try to play as transparent as possible and hope the rest of you see me for what I truly am, a townie trying his best to help the town win. I have always said that the more information we have, the better position we will be in to win the game. I could play a lot closer to the vest and avoid doing anything that would draw suspicious eyes. I've played enough games to know how to do this, believe me.

I liked Falzis' playing style because he reminds me of how I play the game. He posts often, challenges people, and does not shy away from the spotlight. This is how I think townies should play the game and is why I put him up so high on my townie list.

Then why, when I asked you to select 2 people who voted for soj, did you choose Falzis if he was so high on your townie list???

[CanucksDynasty]

Although I hate to admit it, I have a feeling that Falzis and Sir Jesus would be the two that I would pick if I had to make the decision right now.

I had really strong feelings of Falzis being pro townie but I'm now thinking that I could have been duped the whole time. His playing style reminds me of my own, being aggressive, posting often, and so on. I thought he was acting in a very pro town way but whenI go back and re-read his posts in a suspicious light I can see how he could be scum. ( This could be true of anyone but Falzis has drawn the most suspicion out of everyone for various reasons already mentioned. )

Sir Jesus hasn't really done anything "scummy" but I just get a weird feeling about him. He put on one of the final votes to pretty much guarantee that soj. would be the one lynched. Either that or he just threw his vote in with the rest of the crowd to play along. Either way he's playing too close to the vest. Also on day 1 and day 2 he's been unusually quiet. I know he had medical issues so this may give him a pass but I still expect more from him after he said he was feeling better. Even when he does post he doesn't really say anything too controversial.

Your words....so why if you had Falzis so high on your townie list? Why not someone else...say...Kaziocore or Aquinas??

[CanucksDynasty]

I assume this is what you are referring too.

Personally, I believe this is very weak reasoning. The only thing I've done "wrong" was vote for the person I thought was the scummiest, and I happened to be a little late in getting to my computer... Lets consider my options in this situation.

-Vote Sojourner ... The person I believed was by far the scummiest, this will result in a sure lynch of sojourner.
-Vote No-lynch ... Not even really an option for me, this will result in a lynch of sojourner.
-Vote Falzis ... Not the scummiest choice, Day ends with a no-lynch result and scum pick one more of us off.

Essentially my choices were 1) Sojourner is lynched 2) No-lynch reult

Which would anyone here choose?


EM, you know my playing style very well. Whenever I see concrete evidence I will push and push for someone's death, and if there is not I generally play by intuition. If I see any glaring scumtells I will be the first to point it out, and I will equally defend someone I believe to be townie. So far this game I haven't seen much "real" evidence, which I partially blame on the Day 1 no-lynch.

VOTE COUNT
Falzis (2): KevinH, Theophilos
Kaziocore (2): Martino, CanucksDynasty
Sir Jesus (1): Electric Mango

Not Voting (5): Nerau, Sir Jesus, Falzis, Kaziocore, Aquinas

- Falzis will be V/LA until July 11th.
- Nerau still needs replacing, I have no-one lined up, they're all busy. Anyone knows someone / anyone dead wants to do it, shoot me off a PM.

@SJ - I haven't heard from you. In a previous post I mentioned that you were incorrect. That a tie would have resulted in whomever got the votes first would be lynched. So why did you attempt to mislead us??

Also...if you were to vote now...who would it be? I believe you suspected Falzis and EM (from when I asked earlier).

[CanucksDynasty]

@Kaziocore - if you had to vote right now...who would it be?

@Aquinas - if you had to vote right now...who would it be?

@Mole - any luck on a replacement (maybe junk, narsis, oc, vgm)???

Junk and Narsis are unable to replace in due to their slight knowledge.
Not tried anyone else.

Edited by molestargazer, 10 July 2009 - 08:31 PM.

[Kaziocore]

@Kaziocore - if you had to vote right now...who would it be?

@Aquinas - if you had to vote right now...who would it be?

@Mole - any luck on a replacement (maybe junk, narsis, oc, vgm)???

Junk and Narsis are unable to replace in due to their slight knowledge.
Not tried anyone else.

If I'm to vote right now I'll choose Falzis.

On day 2, next on my scum list is him.
I find him saying that he's a townie several times is a bit suspicious.

Like this one...

Oohh there's a 7.1 rule... hmm now that changes my thinking.

I like how Electric Mango and Aquinas posts their townie vibes. If they're getting a good feeling on me, and telling people about it, and I know I'm a townie, I'm getting good vibes from them too. Scum don't usually do town / scum readings especially on the first day so I'm picking up good signals from them.

I'm tempted to vote for Kevin since I'm really more convinced that a No Lynch on Day 1 is more beneficial to scum than town (I trust Mafia Wiki more sorry Kev hahaha).

If you want to know why, I read there that mafia chances of winning increase with each No Lynch based on statistics (I'm not as sure on the explanation, maybe because of the lack of voting patterns and scum tell info).

But I'll stick to sojo for the meantime, my gut is telling me to stick with it for now. If he dies, more food to ration for everyone (I actually only care about more food for me)! MUAHAHA

There are many more but isn't that suspicious?

[KevinH]

Why? Does that make him suspicious???

It's just another weak attempt at humor. I think it is safe to assume that each person will declare themselves townie.

[Kaziocore]

Oh okay

[Falzis]

Yey I haven't been replaced yet. Ok lot's of catching up.

[Falzis]

Ok initial post to defend myself from scum accusations as perceived across the board because of sojourner's (townie) death.

1. I've put my head and neck too much out there to be a mafia.

First, it's very easy to make enemies from fellow townies and be perceived as such thus losing fellow townie confidence.

Second, on the flip side, it's also much much easier to be painted as an enemy by scum and be made a scapegoat, which I think I am being made now.

2. Sojourner's death cannot be solely placed upon me and cannot be a scum tell for me.

First, the argument saying that I redirected the chopping block on my head to sojourner cannot be true since I didn't intend to do that and this thread would show there was no systematic or planned method of leading the town to kill sojourner. Granted that I do want to save my own neck, I could have just continued to push for Kevin's head. But what happened was I had a spontaneous moment of enlightenment (which was proven to be not so... *sad*) and from there on people agreed with me.

Which leads me to the second point, that other people are as much if not more to blame and FoS than me. Simple. I made the case first, they jumped on it. If people's assertions that mafia would want to hide as much as possible whilst picking us townies 1 by 1, then it would have been extremely foolish for me to make the case for either Kevin or sojourner and be obviously blamed as scum for it. It is those who agree on the sidewalks that should be looked upon in suspicion. He who is not scum casts the first stone. I casted the first stone.

But thirdly, let's assume without conceding that I am scum. Let's look at a comparative analysis of a scum (me) blatantly pushing for a townie (sojo) kill. What are the costs versus the benefits? The costs are high. Fingers would be immediately pointed at me once the next Day begins. I will be the most likely candidate for lynching. On the other hand, the benefits are minimal. Yes I would be able to push for a townie kill but the trade off will be my head. Are there other benefits? None. Sojourner wasn't particularly much a threat to me or to anyone. The town wouldn't be losing a much needed voice (in terms of contribution to the discussion and scum hunting) so I as scum wouldn't gain much from it. Simply, it's not worth it for me if I were scum to push for sojourner's head.

Lastly, my case against sojo was logical but much like most things in life, just because it's logical doesn't make it correct. I got it wrong, but I based it on a logical analysis.

3. I was on V/LA. What's the connection you might ask?

Well, first, it would be unstrategic for me to go on V/LA without trying very hard to be online and defend myself even just once for the past 10 days. If I were scum, and knowing I am killing a townie, why would I allow the discussion to coalesce around the perception of me as scum without even making an effort to refute it immediately?

[Falzis]

Ok having read everything, here's my first impressions on D3.

First, Martino shot up on my townie meter because he was right. My case against sojo wasn't particularly strong yet a lot of people jumped on it. And him challenging me is actually more townie than people like EM who have sucked up to me saying they feel I am townie. Martino is critical but open, which I can't say the same thing for Kevin.

Second, there is a trend saying that mafia is more likely to be found in the camp of people who voted for sojourner. While this is logical and more probable, I still feel that a scum also exists in the camp who voted for me.

The reason being that much like the previous mafia game I've played, I believe that it is much advantageous to split mafia votes on two camps to make it harder to look for them (this happened with Kevin and Narsis' strategy last game). Especially when the two lynch camps are both townie (you will prove this once you kill me).

Thirdly, we should view with skepticism the theory that people who associate with each other on D1 and D2 on voting patterns and posts are most likely to be scum buddies. I think that a mafia would avoid pointing to everyone out who their associates are. I don't think for example if I die and was proven townie that Electric Mango should be declared as townie as well. The same goes for Theophilos and KevinH.

I believe it is more strategic for scum to disassociate and sit in opposing camps, as aforementioned in second observation.

[Electric Mango]

Then why, when I asked you to select 2 people who voted for soj, did you choose Falzis if he was so high on your townie list???

Your words....so why if you had Falzis so high on your townie list? Why not someone else...say...Kaziocore or Aquinas??

I really believed that Falzis was highest on my townie meter going into the final stretches of yesterday. (See reasons previously mentioned) After another townie (Sojourner) was lynched I was forced to go back and reconsider everything. I read through all the posts again and tried to look at this game through others points of view that were different than my own. I'm not so conceited to think that I could have been wrong and will not simply dismiss others ideas and suspicious just for the fact that they differ than mine. I can see why people are/were suspicious of Falzis, after all he's made nearly everyone's list of probable suspects. As for Kaziocore and Aquinas, I just don't have enough information on them. They haven't really done anything that set off any alarms. Maybe they're scum just doing a good job blending in to the crowd but after all things considered, I couldn't honestly say that they have a better chance of being scum than Falzis.

I also went back through and read the posts as if Falzis was a scum. If he was, I can see how he could have influenced the lynch of Sojourner. Here's my hypothesis on what he could have done.

Falzis knows from previous games that I am a very vocal townie.
I was the first to vote for Sojourner on Day 1 so Falzis knew I was already suspicious of him.
Falzis also knew that I strongly thought of him( Falzis) as being protown.
Falzis may have voted for Sojourner knowing that there was a very good chance I would support it.
Falzis is very active, I am very active. With both of us going after Sojourner he had a very good chance of securing the lynch.

My gut would still make me vote for Sir Jesus first however.

[Electric Mango]

CD is the only person that I feel has a really good chance at being a townie.

But not yourself? Hmmm....

Well if you want to argue semantics, CD has a really good chance and I have 100% chance.

[KevinH]

Well if you want to argue semantics, CD has a really good chance and I have 100% chance.

I figured as much.

Regarding Falzis' defense, I think he makes a good case and can't really argue against it. However, I don't see anyone else that would make a better candidate. The fact remains that he pushed for the lynch of a townie.

[Falzis]

Which if you say I made a good case and agree with it, then "the fact that I pushed for the lynch of a townie" should be counted as a townie point for me. He who has no sin casts the first stone.

I think that you should look at the people who voted after me.

Of all the jumpers, Kaziocore was the most flippant. You could say that sojourner was also flippant in his posts until his last one so short posts shouldn't be construed as a scum tell by itself. But I believe Kaziocore's vote against sojo was a convenient one if framed against his level of activity and reason for voting. He seldom posts and when he did, it was to vote. He reasoned pressure as his basis but sojo already got 3 votes so it was unnecessary and disjointed with the nature of the votes against sojo - to lynch.

Add to the suspicious timing of his vote. He voted neither too early (not the pusher) nor too late (not the hammer or L-1 vote). I think this would fit excellently with our characterization of mafia as wanting to avoid detection and attempt to blend in.

So right now, I'm going to follow Martino's lead (since he has been correct once) and vote for Kaziocore as my most suspected scum of all the people who voted for sojourner. I hope he comes out to defend himself more substantively than he has posted previously.

Vote: Kaziocore

[Kaziocore]

I'm sorry but what does flippant mean? Is it the same as the meaning in the dictionary or is it like a mafia term or something?

About the timing, it's just coincidental. On the first day I was like saying how to play and then the next day I was thinking of vote timings??? I haven't even thought of that until now.

And about my reasoning, honestly I put that reason there because I felt that I have nothing else to add at that time and I think I remembered some guy who also used that reason to vote for someone and I just mimicked him. Also honestly I did not know I was like that fourth to vote for him at that. It's not I'm scum but it's just that i'm noob or something. Also if I'm scum why did I not just voted for sojourner on the first day? Just one and he would be dead.

Actually I'm a good candidate for lynching if you people can't find scum right now because 1) i don't contribute too much 2) i'm a noob and you people don't need me. I really screwed up my first game so I think will only till day 3.

[Kaziocore]

Actually I'm a good candidate for lynching if you people can't find scum right now because 1) i don't contribute too much 2) i'm a noob and you people don't need me. I really screwed up my first game so I think will only live till day 3.