894 replies to this topic

[KevinH]

If we lynch someone, there is a high probability that it will be a townie and then 2 townies will die in one night.

If we don't lynch someone, only one will die.

Then it turns out that one of us were mafias

I can't believe how hard this game could be. I think most of the time you win this game through luck.

I like Kaziocore. I think he has an equal chance as the rest to be scum, but he's still learning and shouldn't be killed early without much evidence against him.

VOTE COUNT
Kaziocore (3): Martino, CanucksDynasty, Falzis
Falzis (2): KevinH, Theophilos
Sir Jesus (1): Electric Mango

Not Voting (5): Nerau, Sir Jesus, Kaziocore, Aquinas

- Nerau still needs replacing, I have no-one lined up, they're all busy. Anyone knows someone / anyone dead wants to do it, shoot me off a PM.

Edited by molestargazer, 12 July 2009 - 02:21 PM.

[Falzis]

But the reason why there's not much evidence against him is because he's new. So you have a paradox.

Flippant as in the dictionary. No special mafia meaning.

[Electric Mango]

VOTE COUNT
Kaziocore (3): Martino, CanucksDynasty, Falzis
Falzis (2): KevinH, Theophilos
Sir Jesus (1): Electric Mango

Not Voting (5): Nerau, Sir Jesus, Kaziocore, Aquinas

I understand the votes on Kaziocore and I don't cast any suspicion on those that have voted for him, however, I am getting a different read on him. I tend to agree more with what KevinH had to say. I credit his lack of posting often based off his inexperience with this game, not because he's scum. He said that he signed up to play this game because he thought it was more of a spam based game vs a critically thinking one.

Also if I were Kaziocore and I were scum, I would have my vote on Falzis right now. As it's shaping up it's going to be between Kaziocore and Falzis, with Kaziocore having more votes as it stands now. Kaziocore is 1 out of only 3 active players yet to vote. If he were scum I highly believe that he would have voted for Falzis to save his own skin. Instead Kaziocore has basically offered himself up as our next lynch candidate.

All in all, I would say these are pretty good reasons to believe that Kaziocore is a townie, not scum.

[Electric Mango]

I don't know how to play this game.
I thought people here would roleplay or something like hello I'm a crazy person and I will shoot you all and stuff like that.

This is his quote I referred to in my last post.

[Falzis]

Haha I missed that one. Ok well I sincerely hope he's not a mafia playing the newbie card.

Unvote

That would leave Electric Mango, Sir Jesus and Aquinas in the sojo lynch camp as my suspects then, plus one between KevinH and Theophilos.

This is freakin hard. EM, SJ and Aquinas gave me townie vibes but ruling out Narsis, Kaziocore (for the meantime) and myself would make one of them most likely to be scum. I'm leaning towards Theophilos versus Kevin but either could be townies who just have the wrong perception of me. Mafia are playing it very well...

[Aquinas]

Alright, CanucksDynasty you asked me who I would vote for if I had to right now. If that were the case, I would vote for Kaziocore. I would do so because, he has recently volunteered himself if we cannot find scum and as far as I see it, we can't. Is Kaziocore specifically scummy? No. I'm not really concerned about him being scum at all by his actions. However, it seems that the scum who have killed so far have targeted low risk townies. Although they got a couple lucky hits, it doesn't seem that those they killed showed any overt townie tells. I'm not sure why the townies who have been killed thus far were selected. If I were scum I would have targeted ElectricMango and probably Martino. That is also to say, I find them to be pretty likely townie candidates at this point. Anyway, my point being I don't find that the scum kills have been very well founded and (and I don't mean to antagonize the scum here) without clear pattern. I think they would have some sort of strategy but, I don't see it. I think this follows with Kaziocore's level of experience. Nor do I mean to antagonize you Kaziocore, but I think that follows with your own admission of inexperience.

Now, why does my vote differ now from my suspects when I last answered your question to pick two? That's because I don't find that either SirJesus or KevinH have done anything to deserve a vote. I can't vote for SirJesus until I hear more from him. My suspicions on his actions have not been defended or fleshed out as of yet. I'm concerned about SirJesus's motivation but, the bit he has defended of it wards off my vote for now. I'm not convinced he isn't scum but I'm convinced he has done anything scummy enough to warrant a vote. KevinH has not done anything to tip the scales on D3 either. I think he has a solid case against Falzis, as does Theophilos. He has stuck his vote on him thus far and I'm impressed by his consistency.

So, I'll lock in on Kaziocore. He volunteered himself. His play ability could be consistent with scum kills. If I end up making a mistake, I'd rather him than others. I'm still critical of Sir Jesus and I am looking for him to have some significant pro town posts before the end of the day. Otherwise, I may be voting for you by the end of day.

VOTE: Kaziocore

[Falzis]

I'm confused by Aquinas' post...

[Electric Mango]

Alive and Stable

Theophilos
Nerau
Sir Jesus
CanucksDynasty
Electric Mango
Martino
Falzis
Kaziocore
KevinH
Aquinas

We have 10 players left alive.

Most players agree that we most likely have 3 scum

That leaves 7 townies

If we get the lynch wrong today we'll start tomorrow with 5 townies and 3 scum - almost certain doom as the 3 remaining mafia could quickly doggie pile on the votes and secure a win.

We also know (most likely) that we have a "Strong Doc" power role left

We also know that Mole did not want Junkahoolic(cop) or Narsis (weak doc) to rejoin the game because they already had access to a little bit of information. It's also interesting that Junkahoolic was killed before the very first night. Usually cops only have information after they investigate someone at night, something Junkahoolic was not able to do.

We can therefore deduce that our Strong Doc must also have information as well. I'm thinking it may be a good idea for our Strong Doc to role claim and let us know what information they have as it is almost do or die time for the town.

I want to run this past everyone first to see what their thoughts are.

Pro's
------

We would know at least 1 player who is a townie
The doc would only role claim if he had information that could help us
Someone is going to be night killed anyway so we would still start the next day with the same amount of people.

Con's
-------

We lose our last power role
We have a good to fair chance at lynching a scum without the information anyway
The strong doc may have any more information for us if he survives another day


I'm not role fishing, I'm merely thinking of any thing that can help tip the scales in the town's favor.

I would like to hear everyone's thoughts on this please. Did I miss something, is it a good idea, is it a bad idea, what else should we consider?


I also just thought that maybe the doc, weak doc, and strong doc all knew who each other were. Kind of like mason's. Just throwing it out there.

[Narsis]

i get back to find i'm dead...

ah well. guess my absence wasn't missed.

[Falzis]

It's a bad idea EM. I think D4 should be the day any townie with a power role should come out. 5 v 3 is still a good scale.

[Aquinas]

It's a bad idea EM. I think D4 should be the day any townie with a power role should come out. 5 v 3 is still a good scale.

I agree. Its way to early for that last ditch effort. With the odds narrowing and our inability so far to pick out a solid string of evidence against anyone we need everything we can get. If we have a doc left we need that chance for savior more than we do any bit of information they have. Plus, aren't we barred from revealing anything in our role PMs so I would question whether that information is even legal to the rest of us. Plus, you are arguing that because the cop had information on day one the doctor must. The roles are completely different in the type of information they would posses inherently. I doubt the doctor has any strong scum hunting information.

The strong doc role is more powerful than any bit of possible, not likely information they have.

I'm not impressed with this idea at all ElectricMango. In fact, it upsets me a little bit. You're a loud player with a lot of upfront opinions and you draw a lot of attention. I like your play style, it gets a lot accomplished. If we had a lot of players like me who don't post nearly as often, we wouldn't be anywhere. You're a strong player but, you've gone to far this time. Revealing the power role would only allow the mafia to pick off the most important one of us. There are to many problems with this strategy for me to understand why an experienced player like you, would offer it. As clear as you were about your opinions on the no lynch debate, I'm surprised you endorse this one. Things just don't add up for me here. I'm pretty sure I once stated, "I'll never vote for ElectricMango." I said that because I trust you and I think you're a good player but, this is something that just won't fly with me.

UNVOTE
Vote: ElectricMango

If you can further justify your reasoning and redirect my attention, I'll retract my vote.

[Sir Jesus]

First of all, I'd like to say I'm having a really tough time getting a scummy read so far... The only evidence that has been presented is weak at best. Falzis has gunned pretty hard for the death of townies, but at the same time he showed strong pro-townishness by sticking his neck out and getting some information on the table. Personally I get too strong of good vibes for me to vote for him...

This is tough...

Alright, CanucksDynasty you asked me who I would vote for if I had to right now. If that were the case, I would vote for Kaziocore. I would do so because, he has recently volunteered himself if we cannot find scum and as far as I see it, we can't. Is Kaziocore specifically scummy? No. I'm not really concerned about him being scum at all by his actions.

Now, why does my vote differ now from my suspects when I last answered your question to pick two? That's because I don't find that either SirJesus or KevinH have done anything to deserve a vote. I can't vote for SirJesus until I hear more from him. My suspicions on his actions have not been defended or fleshed out as of yet. I'm concerned about SirJesus's motivation but, the bit he has defended of it wards off my vote for now. I'm not convinced he isn't scum but I'm convinced he has done anything scummy enough to warrant a vote.

While I definitely follow your logic, I feel like we should still try to pick the scummiest person here for the lynch. The fact that Kaziocore is throwing himself to the grave voluntarily really seems to indicate that he does not have a power-role. I really haven't gotten any scum "vibes" from him and would like to keep him around, while aiming at one of the bad guys. Of course, all of it could be a very clever WIFOM.

I'm confused by Aquinas' post...

I think he's trying to say that Kaziocore may not be the scummiest target, but that his death would probably benefit the town more than anyone else's.

It's a bad idea EM. I think D4 should be the day any townie with a power role should come out. 5 v 3 is still a good scale.

While I tend to agree with you, a close examination of the 5v3 scenario can prove badly:
-Pro-townie gets 2 townie votes placed no him
-Scum dogpile the vote (4 townies left)
-Scum carry out NK (3 townies left)

Then the situation becomes 3v3, which is obviously ugly. My gut tells me to keep the pro-town roles safe and hidden, but mathematically this could be our last chance.

[Sir Jesus]

Let me reiterate that I do not support the revealing of any roles, at the moment.

[Electric Mango]

I'm not role fishing, I'm merely thinking of any thing that can help tip the scales in the town's favor.

I would like to hear everyone's thoughts on this please. Did I miss something, is it a good idea, is it a bad idea, what else should we consider?

UNVOTE
Vote: ElectricMango

If you can further justify your reasoning and redirect my attention, I'll retract my vote.

I'm not pushing for the idea.

I listed the pro's and con's fairly.

I'm asking for peoples opinions.

I'm presenting things to consider that a lot of people may not have thought of.

It's good to cover all of you basis and think outside the box for any advantage.

I thought of the idea because we played a game in which KevinH came out and role claimed he was the cop?/detective? Anyway he had a power role and came out early and role claimed. It was a brilliant move that ended up saving the town and getting us a win over the mafia. (I was the doc and sacrificed my life protecting him that night) Kevin, back me up here.

I'm just saying that sometimes it's best to role claim early if it is in the best interest of the town. Maybe our "strong doc" is a new player who would not have thought of this on his own. Maybe he knows the identity of two other townies. In that case we would know that there were 3 definite townies and could greatly increase our chances of winning.

I've never heard of a "weak doc" role or a "strong doc" role so I don't know what kind of powers or information they have. I'm just saying that in certain situations it may be in the towns best interest to role claim.

[Electric Mango]

Plus, aren't we barred from revealing anything in our role PMs so I would question whether that information is even legal to the rest of us.

Mole will give final ruling on this but we are not restricted from role claiming and telling what we know. We are only barred from quoting the exact message he PM'd you.


@Mole - Please give final clarification

You cannot directly quote any PMs from me.
You are allowed to RoleClaim. You are allowed to Paraphrase what I've told you in the PM.

Any direct quotes at all are modkillable.

Edited by molestargazer, 13 July 2009 - 10:06 AM.

[Aquinas]

You right, my vote was rash. I need your clarification however, I'm not completely convinced how this move could help the town. Has it? Yes, in your example. I don't see how it could benefit us here. My underlying intention more clearly, is to establish the possible frivolity of the doctor revealing himself. I would not like to see that choice be rash.

I think your pros are definitely needed work.

First, we would know a townie for sure.
What good does that do beyond this day? None, because they'll be dead. What does it do for this day? Probably, none.

This is offset by your second pro.
The doctor would only reveal themselves if they had significant knowledge.
It better be extremely relevant. The names of all the townies would be good but, I doubt even if they posses that knowledge its revealable.

Someone is going to be night killed anyway.
Are you condemning the doctor so easily. If we need to drop a townie it should be Kaziocore who volunteered and is willing. Assuming he isn't the strong doc, I think this is a better solution.

Those are my thoughts, the cons being self evident.

So, how do you find that these pros are beneficial? I'm not assuming that I am necessarily right, I'd just like to know.

[Electric Mango]

Normally I would never want the doc to reveal themselves because they don't know anything, they can only choose one person each night to protect. In this game however there may be sufficient evidence to suggest that this doc role is different than the norm. For one, we have a "weak doc" and a "strong doc". As I said before, I've never heard of either and the strong doc sounds like it's got some potentially good powers. There is also the fact that Mole did not want Narsis to come back into the game because he had knowledge that an ordinary townie would not. These two things make me think that this particular doc role may have more info than a normal one.

I just think that we will lose this game if we don't get a good lynch in today. Going into Day 4 with 5 vs 3 would be the upset of a lifetime.

If like I said however, the doc does not know anything else than his own identity, it is pointless to role claim.

[Electric Mango]

Just to clarify further- If our doc knows the identities of a couple other townies it is most likely in our best interest to have them role claim. This would greatly increase the towns chances of lynching scum.

Again, I'm not advocating that the doc role claim, merely trying to think of situations where it may be appropriate for him to do so. The more people we have in the think tank the better, and that is why I presented this scenario to all of you.

[Aquinas]

Alright, I'll UNVOTE.

I most definitely do not agree about a role claim except in the extreme case where the role has extraordinary revealable information such as identities.

I'll reassert my previous opinions and VOTE: Kaziocore.

[Kaziocore]

I'm guessing that the strong doctor can find out information. I imagine the strong doctor is like the head of this hospital and has like the records of all the patients in this place.