894 replies to this topic

[KevinH]

By the way everyone, have you thought about lynching nerau? At this point in the game it seems like he is just as likely as anyone to be scum, and its painfully obvious he will not be contributing to the town during the duration of this game.

vote: nerau

I don't object to this. He's as likely to be scum as any and if townie will possibly not help the town when we need him.

VOTE COUNT
Falzis (2): KevinH, Theophilos
Kaziocore (1): CanucksDynasty
Sir Jesus (1): Electric Mango
Electric Mango (1): Martino
Nerau (1): Sir Jesus

Not Voting (4): Nerau, Kaziocore, Falzis, Aquinas

- Nerau still needs replacing. I MAY have a replacement ready. If you know anyone, shoot me off a PM anyway.

Edited by molestargazer, 14 July 2009 - 10:20 AM.

[Electric Mango]

I don't object to this. He's as likely to be scum as any and if townie will possibly not help the town when we need him.

Just so everyone knows, I've been trying hard to find a replacement for Nerau. I tried finding experienced players 1st like Sehmarnaam, vgmmaster, Battousai and Niempie. I've also asked a few others as well but all have declined. When I messaged Battousai on cybernations, it was the wrong battousai and Niempie can't be found on cybernations either. I've spoken to Mole about this and he agreed to PM Battousai on the Mafiascum scum website to see if he has an interest in playing.

[Kaziocore]

I think you and Martino have the same question, I'll get to that in a second.



Coming to someone's defense that I think is a townie is my obligation to the town. If we lynch the wrong person today we will be starting the next day in a big hole. I don't want us to make a mistake. If it's ok to voice our suspicions of others, is it not just as ok to voice our opinions if we think they are innocent. I presented good reasons why I think he has a good chance of being a townie.




I cannot tell you if I am for it or against it because I don't have all the facts. I will however give you scenarios and what I would do for each.

Strong Doc could be a psychiatrist or something similiar. This could very well be a plausible scenario given our setting, a mental hospital.

A psychiatrist's night action is that he can choose one post to send to Mole. Mole would then tell him if that post is true or not.

Let's say someone posted, "Nerau is scum". The psychiatrist would send that post to Mole and Mole would tell him yes that is true, or no it is not.

If that is what a Strong Doc can do then he could know the alignment of 2 other people, plus himself.

If the town was close to lynching someone the doc knew was innocent then I would support the doc role claiming. This would also greatly help narrow down the list of possible suspects, another reason to support the role claim in this scenario.


Now if the strong doc is just a normal doc who can only protect others at night then I would only support him role claiming when there were 8 people left alive. Since it would be most likely 5 vs 3 a wrong lynch would mean the town would lose. The wrong lynch and a night kill would put it at 3 vs 3 and scum automatically win. This makes 5 vs 3 a do or die situation and the doc should role claim to help narrow the list of suspects down.

Any other situations I would not support the role claim.


For all we know, Kaziocore (sorry for picking on you but you are obviously the newest player) could be the strong doc but not know how to best utilize his role. Having these discussions make it easier for our newer players to learn how to best use their roles.

Again, I never asked the doc to role claim.

I'm sorry but why would a guy with a power role sacrifice himself or something? Wouldn't he help more if he did not die yet?

[Falzis]

From this post...
I gather you are giving Kaziocore a pass.
And you don't suspect Martino, me (CanucksDynasty), and Nerau as possible scum?

Nope, I just said for the meantime. I can't peg Kaziocore as more scum than townie since again, I have almost little to no evidence to base off given his lack of or short posts. Aside from the fact that he could be given orders to play as such (newbie card), it's very hard for me to put him on top of my scum list. But his bandwagon (and faux pressure reason) vote does give me suspicion.

As I said for Martino, his critical but correct attitude towards me shot him up in my townie meter. I am inclined to agree with him that some scum bandwagoned with me in the sojo camp.

For Nerau, the inactive-as-sign-of-vanilla-townie reason puts him below my suspects.

For you, same reason as Nerau's.

[Falzis]

I don't object to this. He's as likely to be scum as any and if townie will possibly not help the town when we need him.

If he's not any help as townie, he's not any help to scum as mafia either.

Inactive Nerau would mean one less vote for townies (if townie), but also one less vote for scum (if mafia). That would mean if Nerau is scum it's one less vote to bandwagon Day lynches.

Inactive Nerau would mean one less voice or contribution to townie discussion (if townie), but also one less strategist or propagandist to mafia goals (if mafia).

So I don't see why you and Sir Jesus have an itch to kill off Nerau. I think it's misleading the town from scum hunting since trying to create a discussion for Nerau's head distracts from people we have harder evidence to discuss of (voting patterns, posts, alliances).

We're better off not killing Nerau since there's less evidence and more presumptions to base our votes on him. Having a dead weight townie or scum will not hurt us as much as killing off a possible townie and diverting our attention from other more established cases.

FOS: Sir Jesus and KevinH

And look, they were in opposing camps on D2 lynches. Recall my mafia-distancing theory.

[KevinH]

If he's not any help as townie, he's not any help to scum as mafia either.

3 mafia = 1 night kill
2 mafia = 1 night kill
1 mafia = 1 night kill

Do the mafia really need the help at this point?

[Falzis]

Misleading.

Inactive Nerau would mean one less vote for townies (if townie), but also one less vote for scum (if mafia). That would mean if Nerau is scum it's one less vote to bandwagon Day lynches.

Mafia have NK powers and voting powers. You're glossing over the fact that if Nerau is scum, he couldn't vote or speak as well. So scum has one less bandwagon vote and one less propaganda voice.

You've mislead discussions more than once (ie. validity of No Lynch strategy through partial quote from mafiawiki).

[molestargazer]

Narsis replaces Nerau.

He isn't allowed to claim or tell you anything about his previous role, so don't ask.

Welcome him back in!

[Electric Mango]

Misleading.



Mafia have NK powers and voting powers. You're glossing over the fact that if Nerau is scum, he couldn't vote or speak as well. So scum has one less bandwagon vote and one less propaganda voice.

You've mislead discussions more than once (ie. validity of No Lynch strategy through partial quote from mafiawiki).

Good point. I'd like to see Kevin's response to this.

[Narsis]

hello hello hello! as mole said i won't be saying anything top do with my previous role if i can help it. now then let's here my thoughts shall we?:

First, I don't see what the big deal is against EM. He clearly stated in the post that he was just trying to think outside of the box, and wanted people's opinions on the idea. Personally, I see nothing wrong with it.

Second, i don't really think that Falzis is scum. he's playing a good game so far. same goes for EM, Aquinas, and Martino. SJ and Kevin seem to keep my eyebrows raised though so to speak. kaziocore is well...i dont know.

Third, i also await Kevin's response to Falzis' accusation.

and that's all i really got for now.

[Falzis]

Narsis lives! Oh how lucky to be able to play twice. And yey for thinking I am not scum. =))

That aside, I think I need more Theophilos. Yoohoo where are you?

[Narsis]

wow. theophilos is so inactive i forgot him in my "analysis".

[KevinH]

3 mafia = 1 night kill
2 mafia = 1 night kill
1 mafia = 1 night kill

Do the mafia really need the help at this point?

Misleading.

Mafia have NK powers and voting powers. You're glossing over the fact that if Nerau is scum, he couldn't vote or speak as well. So scum has one less bandwagon vote and one less propaganda voice.

You've mislead discussions more than once (ie. validity of No Lynch strategy through partial quote from mafiawiki).

Please note that Falzis brought "No Lynch" up again, not me. I won't say anything more regarding that.

Nerau could have been scum or could have been townie. I need active townies in the end game and Nerau definitely would not have met that need.

But Narsis is back and he'll be active. Welcome!

[Narsis]

dodging the question Kevin?

[Theophilos]

First: Hey Narsis and welcome back

Second: I know, I know I'm too inactive , but by the time I stop spaming our embassies, do my 8 TC's and stuff I'm in no mood to post here as well ... not that it's an excuse just sayin'


@Falzis: now before I'm accused of defending someone, etc. ... Kevin didn't mislead with his quote, he linked the whole page, he just used the part that put emphasis on his argument. And that's all I'm saying on that.

I don't see Kazio as scum, perhaps SJ, but before I FoS him ... I'll need more ...

EM ... well I did FoS him at the start of this day, he's last statements tend to prove my opinion a bit more (to me that is).

I would point out the role Falzis and EM played on D1 and D2 for each other (the "lead" and the "supporting" actor) and the fact that they are now "almost" convinced of each others scuminess ... but have always just barely found some sort of argument to vote for someone else and only FoS or accuse each other ... perhaps it's just me but I still feel confident that they are scum and that they are using this tactic to get townies away from each other by dispersing townie vote.

[KevinH]

dodging the question Kevin?

Not at all.

Nerau could have been scum or could have been townie. I need active townies in the end game and Nerau definitely would not have met that need.

There's my answer.

[KevinH]

Mafia have NK powers and voting powers. You're glossing over the fact that if Nerau is scum, he couldn't vote or speak as well. So scum has one less bandwagon vote and one less propaganda voice.

OK, I'll expand a bit.
Sure, the scum would prefer that they have an active player and it's a disadvantage to them if they have a inactive player.
However, any lynch that kills a scum is a good lynch.

The point I made is that an inactive scum doesn't stop the night kill.
I don't feel it was "glossing over" an obvious fact when my goal is to lynch any scum I can.

[Sir Jesus]

going to sleep...
hurray replacement!

unvote

[Falzis]

OK, I'll expand a bit.
Sure, the scum would prefer that they have an active player and it's a disadvantage to them if they have a inactive player.
However, any lynch that kills a scum is a good lynch.

The point I made is that an inactive scum doesn't stop the night kill.
I don't feel it was "glossing over" an obvious fact when my goal is to lynch any scum I can.

Yes but the point was that your support for SJ's logic of killing off Nerau is questionable. Why would you lynch a player who is inactive, hard to make a case for, and is neither help to townie or scum anyway versus a player who is active, has lots of evidence to make a case for, and is more trouble if scum (bandwagon vote and propaganda voice)?

I think if you or/and SJ are scum, you thought you could try convincing the town to lynch Nerau as an inactive given the verbalized willingness of some people here to lynch inactive and non contributory players versus active ones (ie. sojourner, Kaziocore, party101 way back).

Kevin didn't mislead with his quote, he linked the whole page, he just used the part that put emphasis on his argument. And that's all I'm saying on that.

Ok that's your perception. But you are alone. Even Martino, and Narsis I think, believed it was misleading on Kevin's part (Martino was the one who shot Kevin down).

[KevinH]

Why would you lynch a player who is inactive, hard to make a case for, and is neither help to townie or scum anyway versus a player who is active, has lots of evidence to make a case for, and is more trouble if scum (bandwagon vote and propaganda voice)?

"Lots of evidence to make a case for"
So are you glad that you lynched Sojourner the townie?

An inactive townie player hurts the town team worse than an inactive scum player hurts the scum team.

I'll go a step further: an active player that leads the town to lynch townies is not helping the town.