894 replies to this topic

[KevinH]

(Martino was the one who shot Kevin down).

Please link the post where Martino shot me down. It will be tough to do since Martino hasn't posted after I said I'd support lynching an inactive. Who's misleading whom?

VOTE COUNT
Falzis (2): KevinH, Theophilos
Kaziocore (1): CanucksDynasty
Sir Jesus (1): Electric Mango
Electric Mango (1): Martino

Not Voting (5): Narsis, Kaziocore, Falzis, Aquinas, Sir Jesus

- Deadline is just over a week away.

Edited by molestargazer, 15 July 2009 - 02:59 PM.

[Falzis]

Kevin, I and Theo were talking about your partial quote of the validity of a No Lynch strategy at mafiawiki. Theo said you weren't misleading, I think otherwise. Martino shot you down for it as well (please look back pages 5-10 I think).

You misrepresented my post lol. Who's misleading whom?

[KevinH]

Kevin, I and Theo were talking about your partial quote of the validity of a No Lynch strategy at mafiawiki. Theo said you weren't misleading, I think otherwise. Martino shot you down for it as well (please look back pages 5-10 I think).

You misrepresented my post lol. Who's misleading whom?

Now that I reread it, I see that I was wrong. I apologize for implying that you were misleading when you said that I was misleading when I said you were misleading.

[CanucksDynasty]

I'm changing my vote and going with my original hunch/theory.

Unvote

Vote: Falzis

[Falzis]

Which is?

[Falzis]

Now that I reread it, I see that I was wrong. I apologize for implying that you were misleading when you said that I was misleading when I said you were misleading.

[CanucksDynasty]

Which is?

Your poor reasons for voting soj.
That you, Kaziocore and SJ are somehow linked.

Nothing you have said and done has dissuaded Theo and KevinH vote on you.
And it hasn't changed my opinion on you as well.

[Falzis]

It doesn't really help much to post very short reasons. "Poor reasons" is so vague but nevertheless my reason for voting soj may not be bulletproof but it wasn't exactly poor either. As I said before, it was logical, but not all logical things in the world turn out to be correct.

Also, you don't state what the link between the three of us is. Is it because we all voted for soj?

It would really help to be more clear with what you say. I'm not liking short posts from you or Kevin.

And since you bring up the matter of Kevin and Theo's immobile votes, isn't it more townie to change votes than just pin your vote on the same person everyday? Especially when, you don't help in hunting for scum. Just because you have one target (ie. me) doesn't mean you should stop hunting for other scum.

It's usually people who change votes that are more likely to be townie since it shows a sign of uncertainty, a characteristic only townies possess not knowing who is scum and who is town.

Oh well. You still have one day to mislynch anyway. At least if I die, next day you will be more or less sure who is scum. And it won't be me.

[Falzis]

1. I've put my head and neck too much out there to be a mafia.

First, it's very easy to make enemies from fellow townies and be perceived as such thus losing fellow townie confidence.

Second, on the flip side, it's also much much easier to be painted as an enemy by scum and be made a scapegoat, which I think I am being made now.

2. Sojourner's death cannot be solely placed upon me and cannot be a scum tell for me.

First, the argument saying that I redirected the chopping block on my head to sojourner cannot be true since I didn't intend to do that and this thread would show there was no systematic or planned method of leading the town to kill sojourner. Granted that I do want to save my own neck, I could have just continued to push for Kevin's head. But what happened was I had a spontaneous moment of enlightenment (which was proven to be not so... *sad*) and from there on people agreed with me.

Which leads me to the second point, that other people are as much if not more to blame and FoS than me. Simple. I made the case first, they jumped on it. If people's assertions that mafia would want to hide as much as possible whilst picking us townies 1 by 1, then it would have been extremely foolish for me to make the case for either Kevin or sojourner and be obviously blamed as scum for it. It is those who agree on the sidewalks that should be looked upon in suspicion. He who is not scum casts the first stone. I casted the first stone.

But thirdly, let's assume without conceding that I am scum. Let's look at a comparative analysis of a scum (me) blatantly pushing for a townie (sojo) kill. What are the costs versus the benefits? The costs are high. Fingers would be immediately pointed at me once the next Day begins. I will be the most likely candidate for lynching. On the other hand, the benefits are minimal. Yes I would be able to push for a townie kill but the trade off will be my head. Are there other benefits? None. Sojourner wasn't particularly much a threat to me or to anyone. The town wouldn't be losing a much needed voice (in terms of contribution to the discussion and scum hunting) so I as scum wouldn't gain much from it. Simply, it's not worth it for me if I were scum to push for sojourner's head.

Lastly, my case against sojo was logical but much like most things in life, just because it's logical doesn't make it correct. I got it wrong, but I based it on a logical analysis.

Might I remind you of this post of mine which I believe to be quite excellent. Kevin agrees that it's a solid defense yet has still voted for me.

The cost-benefit analysis alone would absolve me.

[Falzis]

Regarding Falzis' defense, I think he makes a good case and can't really argue against it. However, I don't see anyone else that would make a better candidate. The fact remains that he pushed for the lynch of a townie.

EBWOP to above post as proof of Kevin's agreement. Make what you will out of the seemingly inconsistent stance. If he thinks the case is good and can't really argue against it, why would he vote for me?

The fact that I pushed for the lynch of a townie is one of the core premises supporting my innocence in my defense. So why use that as a reason to vote for me if you agreed with the defense? Plus, does that make me the better candidate? There are so many of us to be made a case for.

There are other people who voted for sojourner. I was the first one. A glaring unscummy move (putting your neck out there!! ring ring) if I ever saw one.

[Falzis]

@EM - you are entirely correct in that it is still possible that Falzis is a townie. I have some thoughts about that but will wait to share it once Falzis returns and see what he has to say.

Could I possibly know your thoughts about the possibility of me being townie? And why you voted for me despite those thoughts? Just for more info you know.

[KevinH]

Regarding Falzis' defense, I think he makes a good case and can't really argue against it. However, I don't see anyone else that would make a better candidate. The fact remains that he pushed for the lynch of a townie.

Despite my saying I can't argue against it, I'll make a weak rebuttal.

"I've put my head and neck too much out there to be a mafia."
Maybe. But this is a case of Wine In Front Of Me. Wouldn't a mafia want to put his head and neck out there to appear that he's not mafia?

"Sojourner's death cannot be solely placed upon me and cannot be a scum tell for me."
Maybe. Two voted for him on the first day and six voted for him on the second day.

sojourner (6): Falzis, Narsis, Electric Mango, Kaziocore, Aquinas, Sir Jesus
Falzis (4): Martino, Theophilos, KevinH, sojourner

Not Voting (2): Nerau, partyin01

I'm willing to bet at least one scum was part of the six that lynched on the second day. I haven't seen a reason to deviate from my first impression.

[Falzis]

Yes but you have to tell me why of all six, I should be that one scum. I haven't seen a reason to not suspect the others as much if not more than me.

[KevinH]

Yes but you have to tell me why of all six, I should be that one scum. I haven't seen a reason to not suspect the others as much if not more than me.

Narsis #1 was killed and proven to be townie so it's not him.

Falzis and Electric Mango were the two that voted unsuccessfully to lynch a townie (proven later) on day 1.
I understand it could have been a bad attempt at scum-hunting but we don't know for sure at this point.

Kaziocore, Aquinas, and Sir Jesus just don't seem as suspicious.

Narsis' replacing in has nothing to do with alignment. -M

Edited by molestargazer, 16 July 2009 - 09:14 AM.

[Falzis]

I think he meant mole that of the 6, Narsis (the original, not Nerau-Narsis) died and is ruled out.

Anyways, it really seems to me that there is a mafia propaganda to let me take the fall, and paint EM as scum by association (which I do not credit or discredit).

It's so convenient for scum to step aside, let townies make a wrong lynch and wagon on it, then blame the proponents later. This strategy will chalk you up one more day lynch and you can just say the next day "Oh, I really thought Falzis was scum".

After all that's said and done, I have to go back to Kevin after all, with a stronger belief of his scuminess.

Vote: KevinH

[CanucksDynasty]

@ Falzis - so out of the people who voted for soj...name 2 that you think are scummy and why. Convince me.

[KevinH]

I think he meant mole that of the 6, Narsis (the original, not Nerau-Narsis) died and is ruled out.

Correct.

My bad.

Edited by molestargazer, 16 July 2009 - 03:55 PM.

[KevinH]

It's so convenient for scum to step aside, let townies make a wrong lynch and wagon on it, then blame the proponents later. This strategy will chalk you up one more day lynch and you can just say the next day "Oh, I really thought Falzis was scum".

Alternatively, it's so convenient for scum to step in, orchestrate a lynch and say, "Oh, I really thought Sojourner was scum."

[Falzis]

But I didn't do that. I said "Oh I was wrong, and he really wasn't scum!" per my concession to Martino's foresight.

@Canucks

I have 3 in mind I think they have equal chances of being scum. I'm sleepy right now and too lazy to sift through posts to make a comprehensive case but the short of it is Electric Mango, Sir Jesus and Kaziocore.

EM for role fishing (which I've found persisted since Day 1). Sir Jesus for proposing to vote for Nerau. And Kaziocore for being a newbie (might be playing or told to play the newbie card).

[CanucksDynasty]

But I didn't do that. I said "Oh I was wrong, and he really wasn't scum!" per my concession to Martino's foresight.

@Canucks

I have 3 in mind I think they have equal chances of being scum. I'm sleepy right now and too lazy to sift through posts to make a comprehensive case but the short of it is Electric Mango, Sir Jesus and Kaziocore.

EM for role fishing (which I've found persisted since Day 1). Sir Jesus for proposing to vote for Nerau. And Kaziocore for being a newbie (might be playing or told to play the newbie card).

Then out of the 3...who would you vote for right now (ignoring the fact that you already voted for KevinH)?