894 replies to this topic

[KevinH]

Electric Mango, MAFIA GOON, has been lynched.

Now that we know he was scum, let's look at some selected posts from the first two days.

I'm giving Falzis a vote of confidence for being most townie so far. I gotta say that I like this guys style. He comes out guns blazin right from the word go. Either he's crazy or he's innocent but right now he's getting some good points from me. Narsis has also started moving forward on my townie meter. I don't think he could get that many people voting for him if he wasn't a townie. Plus his posts seem straight forward. This doesn't mean these guys get a free pass from now on either though.

Falzis has a vote of confidence from the scum.

Our best course of action is to vote for a lynch and go from there. The town will have the best chance of winning if we play this way. I love me some KevinH but just like my momma always says, "crazy is as crazy does".

The scum says the best course of action is to lynch on day 1.

I don't agree with Kevin's strategy but I don't see it as a scum tell either.

The scum doesn't agree with me.

As far as the lynch/no lynch debate, it's definitely in the towns best interest to go for a lynch. The odds don't lie.

Also KevinH's logic about following the cop is flawed IMHO. If the cop investigates someone and is innocent the odds of that same person being put up for a lynch will be very slim. IF it were to happen what will the cop do then? Obviously he won't come out and say that he's the cop and therefore will not give us any obvious clues either. There is a great chance that his comments of protest will go unheeded anyway. The cop is far more valuable in the later stages then in the early ones. Later in the game he might be willing to role claim because of the precious info he has but never in the beginning.

The scum doesn't want to play follow the cop.

Sir Jesus, you said that while Kevin's playing style is par for the course you are still voting for him because he is not helping the town because he will not vote lynch on Day 1. While I agree that it is preferable if he does so, I have a question about your logic. True, KevinH is not a help in discovering possible clues on Day 1. Sorry Kevin, I love your style but that's how I see it. Anyway, KevinH has a very unique set of analytical skills that make him a very valuable asset to the town later in the game. It's better to take a hit on Day 1 because he'll make up for it as time goes.

I've played several games with Kevin and I have always been impressed with his insight to the inner mechanics of the game. He has always appeared to be a sharp minded strategist and has helped his fellow townies win several games. He's not the weakest link and you said that he's not giving off any scum tells. If you agree with opinion that Kevin can be an asset later in the game it is only logical that you change your vote.

*Disclaimer*

I'm not saying that Kevin is giving me any pro town vibes at all. In fact he's one that I'm keeping a watchful eye on because of what I've stated before. This argument was only meant to give insight into my personal views of KevinH and to intellectually challenge SirJesus on his vote.

The scum gives me a complement. Thanks.

So Falzis, you've never been afraid to speak your mind before, why so secretive now? I'd love to hear your theories unless you have a good reason for keeping them hidden for now.

I went back and read all of junkaholic's posts. He never appeared to make any enemies or make hard accusations against anyone. He argued against KevinH's no lynch strategy but stated he didn't think it was fair to lynch Kevin over it. He also FOS'd Sojourner but said there wasn't any hard evidence against him but later voted for him anyway. Other than that he didn't make too many waves. As for why he was targeted first, I believe it was more luck than anything. I didn't pick up any hints that he was the cop by his posts and don't think anyone else could either. Perhaps he was targeted because he was so active as I believe Narsis said.

The scum believes it was luck that the cop got killed. He would know.

If I had to vote right now I'd probably vote KevinH. He was against lynching yesterday which by itself is just Kevin being Kevin but he also FOS'd Soj just for having his vote on junkaholic. It would appear too obvious to send in a night kill on the person who voted for you. I can't see anyone doing that. He also FOS'd me and Falzis for voting to lynch yesterday. There's nothing scummy about voting for anyone as it only helps the town garner more information. I also had my eye on Kevin during day 1 so this new stuff just makes me even more cautious.

It also looks like Falzis is going to be our new most active poster. I'd be scared if I were you Falzis

I FOS'd the scum. Oh no ...

I like all of the pressure on Falzis. I have always thought that by putting pressure on someone helps reveal who is who as things progress in the game. That said, I for one do not think that Falzis is guilty. No, I'm not saying that definitively as I have no special powers, but I do feel I have a pretty good feel on Falzis. The two arguments that are against him is that he contradicted himself and he tried to mislead us. I can agree that these things do stand out. I can see how people try to go on anything that they find to snuff out scum. With out a lot to go on we have to look for even the smallest clues. I still don't think he's guilty though and here's why.

Falzis has been very active and leads all of us in posts and activity. That always gives me good vibes. Remember junkaholic? Also his "attempt to mislead" can be written off as a simple mistake. I don't think a scum would risk his neck trying to fool us with that post. Is the gain even close to the risk? The other deal about the contradiction I don't see it as others do. After everything I've read from his posts I'm thinking he's pro town.

I also think that at least one of the people voting for him are scum. Out of the 3, I think KevinH is the most suspicious. It seems like he was just jumping on the wagon. He didn't really explain much when he was voting. He did give an explanation but when I went back and read it again it just seems like he was trying to find any other reason he could to pile on votes. I've been getting a weird vibe from KevinH for a while.

Vote: KevinH

Falzis is defended by the scum.

Voting for someone on day 1 is not a scum tell Kevin. Every other experienced player it seems like I have ever played with favor a day 1 lynch, as does the mafia wiki. You've played enough games with me to know that I ALWAYS vote to lynch on the first day. To say that I or others are scummy because we did that is not true. I'm not going into the whole lynch or non lynch debate again except to say that voting to lynch on day 1 is PRO TOWN.

As for Falzis, he's doing a good job for the town. He was accused of being aggressive and pointing the finger at many people, a scum tell in Theo's words. This is also wrong. Falzis is sticking his neck out and letting his opinions known. Scum would not want that. They want to remain as neutral as possible as to not draw attention to themselves. Also by attacking people you are generating new information. Vgmmaster is the winningest player in IRON mafia history and that's how she plays the townie role as well. I've seen days where she's voted and unvoted for 3 or 4 people just to create pressure and uncover clues.

There's nothing wrong in stirring up the pot. How else are we to base our votes if we don't have someone out front giving us something to talk about?

We need more people to vote. Scum are perfectly happy to just sit back, not say anything, and pick us off one at a time. The townies best weapon is his vote, let's use it before we lose it.

The scum insists that he acted pro-town. Ironic. The scum also says Falzis is doing a good job for the town.

I'm glad someone else agrees with my Falzis theory. I just think he's giving up way too much information and putting too much of himself out there to be scum. I've always thought that scum would try to just hang back and lurk in the shadows, hoping to avoid the glaring spotlight until the time was too late to stop them. Of course Falzis may be playing me for a fool but I just get a good feeling about him.

The scum defends Falzis again.

I think we all can agree that if we are to win this game we need to gather as much information as possible in order to make the best informed decisions on who to lynch. Since I have my vote on KevinH I will weigh in and present you the things that have made me suspicious of him over anyone else.

What did you learn from Day 1 besides that Junkahoolic was the cop and someone killed him? Usually we are able to learn a lot more because we have better discussion and voting patterns that we can look back on. This did not happen on Day 1 because of two reasons in my opinion. First, we have a lot of new players and second, KevinH stifled the discussion. Most of Kevin's posts on Day 1 only revolve around not lynching, which all of the other experienced players recognize as a bad idea. Moreover, that was the biggest thing anyone talked about. By not lynching on Day 1 and not having any conversation we knew very little heading into the day. This makes KevinH suspicious of stalling our investigations.

Again, how do we win? By lynching all the bad guys. We lynch bad guys based off of getting information which comes up through conversation. The person who posted the most is now dead. The person who is posting the most now (Falzis) is being targeted by KevinH. It seems very unlikely that Falzis is scum because of all the comments he has made so far. If you were scum would you really be acting as crazy as Falzis? KevinH is also suspicious about me. I have also tried to lead many debates and have not been shy to speak my mind or create pressure on people. These are all things we must do to win.

KevinH clamis that Falzis was trying to mislead when he himself was the one trying to mislead us. He was referencing the lynch or no lynch debate as found on mafiascum. He quoted a part that seemed to back him up but failed to include the next paragraph which directly contradicted what he had said. When I confronted him on it he chose to ignore it. This is also a scum tactic and makes me suspicious of him.

Kevin has done a lot more suspicious things than anyone else IMHO. Please present your cases on anyone else and comment on what I said.

The scum didn't like it when I was suspicious of him.

Do I think that Nerau is more guilty than KevinH right now? No. I changed my vote because I did not think it was in the towns best interest to have only two people up for debate. With time running out, Nerau was the only person at the time with another vote. I changed my vote to him to help even the score and help make it a decision between KevinH, Falzis, and Nerau.

The scum puts pressure on Nerau-Narsis.

My vote on Nerau isn't doing much good anymore. I haven't made up my mind for sure on who is more guilty between KevinH and Sojourner. I know Falzis is in the mix too but I have a good feeling about him still. I'm moving my vote to Sojourner for now. I was suspicious of him Day 1 anyway and at least Kevin is being a lot more open and posting more. I still have until Monday to switch my mind and I hope we get more interesting theories to develop by then.

Unvote
Vote: Sojourner

The scum wants to lynch a townie.

I think lynching Sojo is the best thing for the town to do at this point.

There is a lot more evidence against Sojo than Falzis.

Sojo is not defending himself.

We will learn more from Sojo's death than Falzis'.

The scum wants to lynch Sojourner rather than Falzis.

I think all these posts speak for themselves. Electric Mango didn't expect to be lynched and consistently defended Falzis.

FOS: Falzis

VOTE COUNT
Falzis (1): Kaziocore
No Lynch (1): Falzis

Not Voting (7): Theophilos, Nerau, Sir Jesus, Martino, KevinH, Aquinas

With 8 Alive, 5 is needed to lynch.

Narsis is V/LA from 5 days from the 27th.

Edited by molestargazer, 28 July 2009 - 09:35 AM.

[KevinH]

Here are some day 3 quotes.

I also believe that at least two scum voted for sojourner.

Falzis, Narsis, Electric Mango, Kaziocore, Aquinas, Sir Jesus


Narsis was obviously not scum so that narrows it down to five others, myself included.

I agree with the scum.

Although I hate to admit it, I have a feeling that Falzis and Sir Jesus would be the two that I would pick if I had to make the decision right now.

I had really strong feelings of Falzis being pro townie but I'm now thinking that I could have been duped the whole time. His playing style reminds me of my own, being aggressive, posting often, and so on. I thought he was acting in a very pro town way but whenI go back and re-read his posts in a suspicious light I can see how he could be scum. ( This could be true of anyone but Falzis has drawn the most suspicion out of everyone for various reasons already mentioned. )

Sir Jesus hasn't really done anything "scummy" but I just get a weird feeling about him. He put on one of the final votes to pretty much guarantee that soj. would be the one lynched. Either that or he just threw his vote in with the rest of the crowd to play along. Either way he's playing too close to the vest. Also on day 1 and day 2 he's been unusually quiet. I know he had medical issues so this may give him a pass but I still expect more from him after he said he was feeling better. Even when he does post he doesn't really say anything too controversial.

This is a twist. Scum saying bad things about Falzis and Sir Jesus gives them townie points.

I would agree that CD's inherited role is most likely townie. Typically new people want power roles and don't relish the vanilla townie role. If two of them abandoned their role it most likely means it was a vanilla townie. Of course this is not 100%, but it does push him higher up on my townie meter.

The scum knew definitely that CD was townie. His partners will night-kill CD.

I have my own wild theory about Nerau that I'll share since you brought him up. The nk scene mentioned there were two killers. What if there were 3 mafia (as most vets would say is about the right amount) but since Nerau was inactive Mole didn't include him in the write up. Nerau could be the mafia godfather and when he didn't send in his night action it went to the 2nd goon in charge and Mole wrote the scene using only the two active goons?

Scum saying bad things about Nerau-Narsis gives him townie points.

I don't see why scum would want to kill someone inactive though. It would favor the scum to go after the active players IMO. Inactive players wouldn't be much of a threat to the scum. I believe that there were other motives at play, similar to what CD suggested.

The scum lies.

I was thinking the same thing, why kill Junk on Day 1? Either we have a lot of veterans as scum or a lot of newbies that don't know better and just went for the person with the most activity. There's no way nobody knew Junkahoolic was the cop.

The scum previously said he got lucky.

(to CD) You still could have been night killed last night but were not. You also have the most wins out of anyone here I might add. That would put a pretty big target on your back according to your own reasoning.

I agree with CD, it's time to turn up the heat.

Vote: Sir Jesus

For reasons already mentioned

The scum indeed saw a target on CD's back. Sir Jesus gets townie points by having a vote from scum.

(to Sir Jesus) This entire reasoning is only valid if we believe you a townie.

If you are scum then your options look like this

1) Lynch a townie and pick up a night kill
2) Night kill only

Obviously it would be in the scums best interest to kill two, not one.

Also it's not fair to not vote on day 1 and then blame the lack of "real" evidence on the day 1 no lynch is it not?

As far as your playing style goes, I think I do know your playing style well and hence my vote on you. You say that you will push hard for someone's death and defend someone you think is innocent but you have been very quiet this game. You say it's because of a lack of evidence but how are we to gain evidence unless we get more aggressive. You have been very conservative and seem to be just going along with the crowd. I could say this about a few others as well but I just expect more from you. CD has only been playing for a few days but has already begun to lead discussions and has been asking very good questions.

Sir Jesus gets more townie points.

I know that Falzis and I both voted for the same people on Day 1 and Day 2. I have also gone on record saying that I believed Falzis to be a townie, in fact I said that out of anyone, he was the person I was most sure was a townie. I've played enough games to know that this may subject me to scrutiny as it has done in previous games where I have taken a similar stance. Knowing this going in I still decided to act the way I did because as a townie I believe it is in the towns best interest if I show all my cards. I never try to hold anything back and pride myself on laying it all on the line no matter the consequences. I try to play as transparent as possible and hope the rest of you see me for what I truly am, a townie trying his best to help the town win. I have always said that the more information we have, the better position we will be in to win the game. I could play a lot closer to the vest and avoid doing anything that would draw suspicious eyes. I've played enough games to know how to do this, believe me.

I liked Falzis' playing style because he reminds me of how I play the game. He posts often, challenges people, and does not shy away from the spotlight. This is how I think townies should play the game and is why I put him up so high on my townie list.

Endorsement from a scum is not a townie indicator.

It will be interesting to see what Falzis has to say about all of this when he comes back tomorrow. As for right now, CD is the only person that I feel has a really good chance at being a townie.

Yup. CD had a really good chance at being a townie.

I really believed that Falzis was highest on my townie meter going into the final stretches of yesterday. (See reasons previously mentioned) After another townie (Sojourner) was lynched I was forced to go back and reconsider everything. I read through all the posts again and tried to look at this game through others points of view that were different than my own. I'm not so conceited to think that I could have been wrong and will not simply dismiss others ideas and suspicious just for the fact that they differ than mine. I can see why people are/were suspicious of Falzis, after all he's made nearly everyone's list of probable suspects. As for Kaziocore and Aquinas, I just don't have enough information on them. They haven't really done anything that set off any alarms. Maybe they're scum just doing a good job blending in to the crowd but after all things considered, I couldn't honestly say that they have a better chance of being scum than Falzis.

I also went back through and read the posts as if Falzis was a scum. If he was, I can see how he could have influenced the lynch of Sojourner. Here's my hypothesis on what he could have done.

Falzis knows from previous games that I am a very vocal townie.
I was the first to vote for Sojourner on Day 1 so Falzis knew I was already suspicious of him.
Falzis also knew that I strongly thought of him( Falzis) as being protown.
Falzis may have voted for Sojourner knowing that there was a very good chance I would support it.
Falzis is very active, I am very active. With both of us going after Sojourner he had a very good chance of securing the lynch.

My gut would still make me vote for Sir Jesus first however.

The scum begins to distance himself when Falzis collects a few votes.

I understand the votes on Kaziocore and I don't cast any suspicion on those that have voted for him, however, I am getting a different read on him. I tend to agree more with what KevinH had to say. I credit his lack of posting often based off his inexperience with this game, not because he's scum. He said that he signed up to play this game because he thought it was more of a spam based game vs a critically thinking one.

Also if I were Kaziocore and I were scum, I would have my vote on Falzis right now. As it's shaping up it's going to be between Kaziocore and Falzis, with Kaziocore having more votes as it stands now. Kaziocore is 1 out of only 3 active players yet to vote. If he were scum I highly believe that he would have voted for Falzis to save his own skin. Instead Kaziocore has basically offered himself up as our next lynch candidate.

All in all, I would say these are pretty good reasons to believe that Kaziocore is a townie, not scum.

Kaziocore now has an endorsement from the scum.

Also I would like to point out that the scum are kicking our #$@. They got two of our power roles and a mis-lynch by the town today puts us in a very big hole. If I were scum, I would be more than happy to sit back and play it safe. I wouldn't do anything that could be construed as "role fishing". (which I'm not doing anyway)

I'm trying to think of anything or any angle that can help us win, that's it.

The scum tried to sit back and play it safe. It didn't work.

I don't find what Narsis said to be scummy at all. IMO he giving his honest take on what he's been seeing. I don't see how he's claiming to have a power role in anything that he posted. In fact he's saying the opposite, that if Nerau (now Narsis) did have a power role that he would have role claimed, which he didn't. If Narsis is saying anything it's that Nerau was a newbie scum who caved under pressure.

I doubt however that Nerau/Narsis is scum because why would he post this if he was? Yes I've heard of WIFOM but IMO this is not something that Narsis would have done. He was under no pressure when he posted that and I doubt that he would dare post anything controversial if he feared being caught as scum.

Nerau-Narsis gets an endorsement from the scum.

I'm leaving my vote where it is for now. If it becomes a two horse race between Falzis and KevinH I will be switching my vote to Kevin. I believe he has a greater chance at being scum. He was misleading with his quote from mafia scum, as well as the little incident where he was accused of misleading the town again by Falzis.

FOS KevinH

The scum picks me over Falzis.

(to me) Not a very strong defense.

I consider you a very intelligent player. We have always strongly disagreed about lynching on Day 1 but I still have thought of you as a strong asset to the town because you have been very good at breaking things down later in the game. I haven't seen that style of play from you this game, as Falzis has already said.

I really expected more detailed analysis from you as we are nearing a very critical time for the town. Your above quote is far less than what I am used to seeing from you. Why the difference in playing style?

The scum doesn't like how I'm playing.

I was liking your post up until the part where you said stuff about me that wasn't true. This entire game I have been nothing but upfront and honest about everything, trying to play as transparent as possible. The only player who has contributed as much or more than I have is Falzis, now we are both drawing suspicion? I always find it ironic that people who put themselves out there the most to try to help the town win always seem to draw the fire, while others who hardly contribute (Sir Jesus and others) get a free pass.

The scum says Falzis is contributing and Sir Jesus is not.

Unvote: Sir Jesus
Vote: KevinH

Obviously I'm changing my vote at this point to save my own skin. If I'm correct it was a three way tie between Falzis, KevinH, and myself. I know that I am a townie and between Falzis and KevinH, I think that KevinH is a better candidate for reasons already stated.

The scum says he is a townie and that I should be lynched over Falzis.

I think the lynch of Electric Mango came as a surprise and he was trying to sway the vote towards me. It would have been a better attempt to "save his own skin" by putting his vote on Falzis. Why didn't he?

SFOS: Falzis

[KevinH]

This early, I'm predicting a townie alignment from EM. There is no way in hell he can be scum since that would mean that the rest of those voting currently for Kevin except for me are scum. And I can't imagine Sir Jesus and Nerau-Narsis to be both scum.

And if you agree SJ and N-N to be townies, that would mean EM, Theophilos and I are scum. It's absurd to think that I and Theo are in the same boat. Why would Theophilos be the third scum? Because if EM and I were scum, there's no one left to be the third one since we can all agree that we don't think a scum will vote for fellow scum (assuming EM is) at this point.

HAHAHA I'm even more correct than I thought.

With Theo's vote on EM, if EM turns out scum, it would mean that amongst SJ, Nerau-Narsis, and I, two are scum. I don't think anyone here would say even one of them is scum assuming you think I am the other scum.

What say ye now?

[Falzis]

I say I'm a freakin' newb in this game. All of my predictions and analysis were wrong and I wasn't much help to the town. But at least I tried. I don't know why you are so gung-ho all of a sudden and it's a very big shift of character from you in the past three days. But given all this I would now count you as townie since EM has consistently voted for you on D2 and D3.

I've always said I am being made a scapegoat. I still think I am. I've said I was manipulated. I was. Everything I did, I did it on my own accord and I did it first. EM just jumped on everything I did.

The only thing that separates us and which is very important is his suggestion for the doc to role claim. I shot it down like almost everyone else did. EM backtracked and I bought his defense that he wasn't necessarily saying for the doc to role claim. But the point is, the reason EM was lynched was because of that scum tell. I never advocated role fishing, nor attempted to. I would think that clearly separates me from EM.

Plus, if you want to look to lynch someone based on EM's affiliations, I suggest you do the opposite. Or the subtle associations. Because I still dare say that obvious and blatant and open association is not a scum move. We have proven my assumption re soj lynch case was wrong and that scum indeed wants to hide more than they want to lynch. So even if EM voted for soj, and another scum could have killed soj on D1, they didn't. So it would be foolhardy to assume that the scum in this game would be so open to their association with each other.

If anything, EM's distancing posts from Sir Jesus or Nerau-Narsis should be more scrutinized.

Next, that would mean that at least either Sir Jesus or Narsis is scum, and on D3, I couldn't imagine them to be scum. But of course, EM's death would more or less tell me that indeed at least one of them is scum.

I still believe though that one scum is hiding in the EM camp even if it violates the assumption that scum won't vote for fellow scum. I also believe that Martino and Aquinas are full-proof townies. I'm just scratching my head though why Canucks was NKed and not one of Martino or Aquinas. I'm looking now on CD's posts to try to get a clue why he was the one killed.

As for my No Lynch vote, there are 6 of us townies left. 5 townies can still outvote the 2 in most voting situations. The scum would need 3 townies to vote for a fellow townie to be able to pull off a townie lynch. I don't think it would be easy to do that except for my head, and that's why I'm not lynching because I want to prove my innocence.

[Falzis]

Plus think about it, if I was really scum, and EM was sure to be lynched, why would I post such cocky posts knowing EM was going to be lynched and I was going to be proven wrong?

[Sir Jesus]

This is where all the evidence comes together, and I believe KevinH has presented that evidence much better than I could. Falzis, I think it is time for you to stop leading this town into the sad condition that is developing. I think the link between EM and Falzis has been pretty obvious, and the attempted distancing move EM carried out by voting for me followed by baseless assertions ("Next, that would mean that at least either Sir Jesus or Narsis is scum, and on D3, I couldn't imagine them to be scum. But of course, EM's death would more or less tell me that indeed at least one of them is scum.") that either Narsis or I are scum is an attempt to shift the town's attention from the mafia players. Now that the evidence has become more clear and concrete, I am fairly confident in my...

Vote: Falzis

Plus think about it, if I was really scum, and EM was sure to be lynched, why would I post such cocky posts knowing EM was going to be lynched and I was going to be proven wrong?

So you could post this statement. WIFOM ftw!

[Sir Jesus]

Also, my vote is bolstered by the sudden gamestyle change that Falzis has adopted. Everyone knows that a no-lynch is an awful strategy on D4 especially with the death of a doc and cop. Now that the heat is on him, his "pro-town" strategy is now to avoid a lynch and allow the scum to take us out one by one.

[KevinH]

As for my No Lynch vote, there are 6 of us townies left. 5 townies can still outvote the 2 in most voting situations. The scum would need 3 townies to vote for a fellow townie to be able to pull off a townie lynch. I don't think it would be easy to do that except for my head, and that's why I'm not lynching because I want to prove my innocence.

Also, my vote is bolstered by the sudden gamestyle change that Falzis has adopted. Everyone knows that a no-lynch is an awful strategy on D4 especially with the death of a doc and cop. Now that the heat is on him, his "pro-town" strategy is now to avoid a lynch and allow the scum to take us out one by one.

Quote For Truth. When I advocate no-lynch, it's because I don't want to kill off a townie. At this point, no-lynch just means another dead townie during the night.

However, with all this said, I think there is a possibility that EM did indeed play Falzis for the fool. Maybe Falzis took the lead and EM took advantage of the opportunity.

I can imagine very sly play by EM to see that a townie is making the wrong moves and reinforce those moves.

Maybe, maybe, maybe...

But if we don't lynch Falzis, then whom?

[Theophilos]

Kevin's than a neat job putting together my thoughts on Falzis ... that said I'd point everyone to re-read the seeming "accusations" between EM and Falzis ... them thinking each other as sure scum, but always finding just that last minute reason not to vote for each other. I'm thinking Falzis could be the "godfather" ... or some such role modified for this particular situation.

I've been going on on my reasons why I think Falzis is scum for long enough to give my vote with out repeating them again ...

Vote: Falzis

Let's finish him off and go after the, I hope (only 3), last scum member.

As to my 5 min to 12 vote ... I FoSed EM and thought it fine to finish one scum, better one scum dead than people changing their minds again ...

Who's the third one ... I have my eye on SJ and Narsis-Nerau ... somehow I still don't see Kazio as scum ...

[Falzis]

Falzis, I think it is time for you to stop leading this town into the sad condition that is developing. I think the link between EM and Falzis has been pretty obvious...

I've been going on on my reasons why I think Falzis is scum for long enough to give my vote with out repeating them again...

Vote: Falzis

Oh please! Don't even imply I'm lying and was lying to everyone. I don't have any qualms as to getting lynched because you will be proven wrong.

Secondly, you thought me to be townie on D1 and D2. So who's the liar now? You didn't think I was scum "long enough".

Thirdly, I am not advocating a NO LYNCH by everyone. I am the only one not lynching. Do not misrepresent me. I am not lynching because again I want to prove my innocence by not pointing to anyone myself primarily and let the others build a case for other people. Me not lynching doesn't mean I don't advocate others to pull off a lynch.

Lastly, before I die, I am putting out a new theory. There are four scum. Look at Theophilos' Freudian slip:

Let's finish him off and go after the, I hope (only 3), last scum member.

Ho ho ho. Get cocky scum of the earth. You may kill me easily but I and the town will have the last laugh (I hope, Martino and Aquinas - win this one for us)!

[Theophilos]

Oh please! Don't even imply I'm lying and was lying to everyone. I don't have any qualms as to getting lynched because you will be proven wrong.

I'm not implying anything ... you are lying you're scum, it's that simple. The only thing we will see when we (the townies) lynch you is another dead scum

Secondly, you thought me to be townie on D1 and D2. So who's the liar now? You didn't think I was scum "long enough".

I had my vote on you since page 16 FYI, so YEAH we know who's the liar. You are ... I've thought you're scum for long enough.
Secondly, you thought me to be townie on D1 and D2. <-- misleading yet again are you?

Lastly, before I die, I am putting out a new theory. There are four scum. Look at Theophilos' Freudian slip ... Let's finish him off and go after the ...

Yes WE the townie lynching mob

No slip, I think there are 3 scum in this game: YOU, EA and SJ or N-N ... I'm just leaving certain options open, so that we don't see any nasty surprises ...

Ho ho ho. Get cocky scum of the earth. You may kill me easily but I and the town will have the last laugh (I hope, Martino and Aquinas - win this one for us)!

They will, they'll do the right thing and help us hang U and prove your scuminess

[Falzis]

Umm... first of all, I wasn't talking to you. I was talking about SJ re implying I'm lying. The only thing I talked about you was your Freudian slip.

So your whole post = invalid.

[Theophilos]

Actually everything 's valid except for the d1&d2 comment (my bad btw)

[KevinH]

I've been in quite a few games with Electric Mango.

He's smart enough to play the same whether townie or scum. So while there is quite a bit of evidence against Falzis, I want to take pause before we blindly follow the path to which Mango has led us.

Falzis certainly led the town astray with the Sojourner lynch and certainly was wrong in his attacks on me. Could he have done this as a scum-hunting townie? Possibly.

Just suppose we ignore all the chatter where Mango insists that Falzis is townie.

I still like my theory that the two votes on Sojourner day 1 were from scum because they are motivated to lynch.

I still think Mango's best chance of saving his skin would have been to put his vote on Falzis but instead he avoided that. However, maybe he was trying to appear consistent in his belief in Falzis' towniness.

We also have the voting to consider.

Day 2

sojourner (6): Falzis, original-Narsis, Electric Mango, Kaziocore, Aquinas, Sir Jesus

Falzis (4): Martino, Theophilos, KevinH, sojourner

Day 3

KevinH (4): Falzis, Sir Jesus, new-Narsis, Electric Mango

Electric Mango (6): Martino, Aquinas, Kaziocore, KevinH, CanucksDynasty, Theophilos

Falzis and Sir Jesus are the only two that voted to lynch a townie and not lynch a scum. Falzis sure seems like a better candidate than Sir Jesus.

My suspicion remains on Falzis.

[Falzis]

I don't know how to prove my innocence because the "hard evidence" (voting patterns) are stacked against me but if you really are townie KevinH, I implore you to go and look back at everything and see the bigger picture especially the "soft evidence" (logic and implicits). My defense at lynching sojourner still stands. We have proven that scum are smarter and won't go around lynching and flailing their arms and putting big stickers on their foreheads that say IM SCUM IM LYNCHING TOWNIES.

If not for EM's slip and quite incoherent discussion for the doc to roleclaim, he would have gone under the radar. Yes he was vocal but not quite as I was. Yes he was in the battlefield so to speak but I was the one on the front lines. I was and am the scapegoat. I was and am the odd thumb sticking out prominently. This is in contrary to the proven conclusions for this game that scum wanted to hide more than lynch.

Actions that try to blend should be taken with more suspicion that actions that try to put the spotlight on themselves.

[Falzis]

No slip, I think there are 3 scum in this game: YOU, EA and SJ or N-N ... I'm just leaving certain options open, so that we don't see any nasty surprises ...

Oh but you did slip. Nowhere in this thread was the idea of 4 scum floating around until your post. The consensus has been there are only 3.

You could also be scum pretending to be town since even if you voted for KevinH and tie the votes at 5-5, EM was still going to die first because he was the first to get to 5 (accdg to mole's rules). So just because you voted for EM doesn't acquit you of being possibly guilty.

[Theophilos]

Oh but you did slip. Nowhere in this thread was the idea of 4 scum floating around until your post. The consensus has been there are only 3.

Not really ... about the slip ... there was some ideas floated about a possible 2-2 team ... improbable as they are ...

But that's an almost irrelevant issue, by your own words ... consensus and all, so try to stick to the point ... YOU are scum and the only thing time and lynch are gonna tell is that you're a scum

[Falzis]

Say it long enough and it's gonna stick... or not. Even if you lynch me and turn the world upside down it won't change the fact that I'm not scum.

You might be of another camp if not scum.

[KevinH]

If not for EM's slip and quite incoherent discussion for the doc to roleclaim, he would have gone under the radar.

Personally, I didn't believe that the whole doc-roleclaim thing was a scum-tell. I bet EM will tell us that he would have posted the same thing if he were townie and that he was not trying to do something summy.

We have proven that scum are smarter and won't go around lynching and flailing their arms and putting big stickers on their foreheads that say IM SCUM IM LYNCHING TOWNIES.

...

This is in contrary to the proven conclusions for this game that scum wanted to hide more than lynch.

If this is such a proven fact, then why don't the scum do exactly that? They'll push for a lynch and say that scum will want to hide.

But wait, that's what you did ...

[KevinH]

Another thing worth discussing is the choice of CanucksDynasty as the night-kill.
I honestly thought I would be killed.

It was probably obvious that I would continue to build evidence against Falzis so Falzis the scum would want me dead. But if Falzis the scum had night-killed me it would look like he was scum becaus I got killed. Oh, the WIFOM ...

I'm still waiting for the "if it's day 3 and Kevin's alive, he must be scum" argument. Maybe they expect me to be lynched and that's why I'm still alive.

But why choose CanucksDynasty?

Undecided
KevinH
EM
Falzis
Kaziocore
Sir Jesus
Theophiles

...

If EM is scum then...Kaziocore & KevinH are townies.

Assuming the scum wanted to kill off potential attackers, then that means that from the grave, CD has fingered Falzis, Sir Jesus, and Theophiles.

Of course, anybody else that was scum would know this conclusion would be drawn so they had the incentive to kill him, too. Oh, the WIFOM ...

Perhaps it was just random.