864 replies to this topic

[Lyner]

Well, if I'm given a choice between LS and iSoc then I'd vote LS right now, I've explained my reasoning.

 

 

Anyway this game will become very interesting if LS actually got framed. Otherwise I think we can win this easily.

[LordSunday]

Unvote

 

Vote: iSocalism

 

 

There are some things that I was able to notice re-reading this day over and over again.

 

 

1) iSoc never provided a name to his RC, he just claimed JOAT and everyone went with it. If he was going to go all out, why wouldn't he supply his name to further prove his town alignment.

 

2) At first when I thought Rhizo was scum, it was due to seeing King Cankles flop his vote in close following of Rhizo, with not too much reason provided other then "I'm not sure." When Rhizo swapped back to iSoc, I almost expected to see KC switch too, which would have almost confirmed in my mind that Rhizo is scum and KC, being a newer player, was following the lead of his scum partner. This didn't happen.

 

3) On a similar token, between Rhizo and iSoc, the only one who has seen players specifically defend them and not even throw some accusation is iSoc. Rhizo received no love, I've received no love, but iSoc has had players such as Lyner specifically defend him and not even note his possible scumminess.

 

4) If Rhizo were scum, then both iSoc and myself would be town. This means iSoc would truly be a JOAT, and if that's the case then why in the hell would Rhizo switch his vote to me, a VT, when he could get a JOAT lynched today and then have me taken care of tomorrow?

 

5) With Lyner's above post, it seems he's intended to switch, which given the current circumstances is most likely an attempt to save his scum buddy. A townie wouldn't think along the lines of "well if they're both town let's just kill the VT." He should be actively encouraging people to NOT vote both myself and iSoc if he truly believed we were both town.

 

6) The entire "Let the night speak for itself" and "should be an obvious choice" comments just hit a little too scummy for me not to question it. iSoc has firmly asserted I am scum the entire day, but had not once hinted at who another scum could be. How then does he know exactly who to hit with his supposed vig kill?

 

7) When you look at it, the scum designed one heck of a play. By claiming JOAT that investigated me N1 and roleblocked SBG N2, iSoc was hoping to get the town down 3 people before he got himself killed. Without a night kill on N2, he could use the roleblock to try and get SBG killed D4, while using the cop story to lynch me today.

 

 

If this doesn't make sense to someone please let me know, but I'm fairly certain and agree with Rhizo at this point iSoc isn't town.

[Finster Baby]

I wanna see a count before I make a final determination. I'm seeing some convincing arguments here for a vote switch.

[LordSunday]

I wanna see a count before I make a final determination. I'm seeing some convincing arguments here for a vote switch.

 

 

 

I don't know who is exactly on what wagon, but it stands at:

 

iSocalism - 6 votes

LordSunday - 5 votes

Rhizo - 2 votes

 

I think the lynch mark is 7

[Kitkat16]

*throws up hands*

 

what an utterly confusing turn of events. in fact, what an utterly confusing day.

 

there's so much going on here it's too much to process. I really don't know what to think anymore. There's just so much stuff to consider.

 

oh well. off to sleep. we'll see what happens in the morning (my time.) catch ya on the flip side, everyone.

[Lyner]

I can answer that, LS

 

1) Scum has a secondary name, as evidenced by MK yesterday. If you insist I think iSoc can give you his name

 

2 & 3) Scums will only defend their scum friends, as indirectly as possible. When they aren't under pressure, they would try to confuse the town as much as possible

 

4) No, even if Rhizo turned out scum we can't brand iSoc as a townie unless his vig ability kills a scum tonight.

 

And let's say we assume Rhizo is scum while iSoc is joat, that means Rhizo (and his scum friends) knows for a fact that you are framed, no? That's why he's trying so hard to sell that "framing" has a very miniscule chance to happen. That way if iSoc turned out as town, town will kill you tomorrow. What if you're the one who got killed instead? Town will kill iSoc tomorrow. Win-win solution for scum team, unless iSoc kills a scum tonight. Hence my suspicion.

 

5) The problem is, I don't know for certain if you're framed or not. On one side Rhizo denies it. On the other side Kitkat is convincing the town that it might actually be happening. Scums know what's actually happening, I don't. What I know is a player has announced that he is a JoAT, that the one he found guilty claimed a VT, and he has a vig ability to spare tonight. I'm taking the safest approach for town.

 

6) iSoc's probably saying about proving his JoAT ability, not about targeting a scum. Me, in the other hand, are very confident that there is scum on the WP wagon (excluding iSoc), which means Rhizo or Kitkat. If you, LS, turned out scum, then the target would easily be Rhizo. If you turned out town, then Kitkat is also a decent target. Either the worst chance is 50%. 

 

7. I assure you that if you turned out as town and iSoc didn't bring a scum's head tonight, town will kill him tomorrow. About roleblock, I think we has already decided that it doesn't prove anything on its own. That means that at the very most, scum iSoc is giving up his life for yours. In addition, iSoc brings up a nice number game to the table which isn't even discussed. Care to give me your opinion on this, Rhizo?

 

 

 

Anyway I wanna hear CoD's opinion on all this before making my final decision

[Finster Baby]

I can answer that, LS
 
1) Scum has a secondary name, as evidenced by MK yesterday. If you insist I think iSoc can give you his name
 
2 & 3) Scums will only defend their scum friends, as indirectly as possible. When they aren't under pressure, they would try to confuse the town as much as possible
 
4) No, even if Rhizo turned out scum we can't brand iSoc as a townie unless his vig ability kills a scum tonight.
 
And let's say we assume Rhizo is scum while iSoc is joat, that means Rhizo (and his scum friends) knows for a fact that you are framed, no? That's why he's trying so hard to sell that "framing" has a very miniscule chance to happen. That way if iSoc turned out as town, town will kill you tomorrow. What if you're the one who got killed instead? Town will kill iSoc tomorrow. Win-win solution for scum team, unless iSoc kills a scum tonight. Hence my suspicion.
 
5) The problem is, I don't know for certain if you're framed or not. On one side Rhizo denies it. On the other side Kitkat is convincing the town that it might actually be happening. Scums know what's actually happening, I don't. What I know is a player has announced that he is a JoAT, that the one he found guilty claimed a VT, and he has a vig ability to spare tonight. I'm taking the safest approach for town.
 
6) iSoc's probably saying about proving his JoAT ability, not about targeting a scum. Me, in the other hand, are very confident that there is scum on the WP wagon (excluding iSoc), which means Rhizo or Kitkat. If you, LS, turned out scum, then the target would easily be Rhizo. If you turned out town, then Kitkat is also a decent target. Either the worst chance is 50%. 
 
7. I assure you that if you turned out as town and iSoc didn't bring a scum's head tonight, town will kill him tomorrow. About roleblock, I think we has already decided that it doesn't prove anything on its own. That means that at the very most, scum iSoc is giving up his life for yours. In addition, iSoc brings up a nice number game to the table which isn't even discussed. Care to give me your opinion on this, Rhizo?
 
 
 
Anyway I wanna hear CoD's opinion on all this before making my final decision

Lyner:

I want to know why you're so hyper to defend iSoc - you've been very quick to defend him and have done so continually today.

[LordSunday]

I can answer that, LS

 

1) Scum has a secondary name, as evidenced by MK yesterday. If you insist I think iSoc can give you his name

 

2 & 3) Scums will only defend their scum friends, as indirectly as possible. When they aren't under pressure, they would try to confuse the town as much as possible

 

4) No, even if Rhizo turned out scum we can't brand iSoc as a townie unless his vig ability kills a scum tonight.

 

And let's say we assume Rhizo is scum while iSoc is joat, that means Rhizo (and his scum friends) knows for a fact that you are framed, no? That's why he's trying so hard to sell that "framing" has a very miniscule chance to happen. That way if iSoc turned out as town, town will kill you tomorrow. What if you're the one who got killed instead? Town will kill iSoc tomorrow. Win-win solution for scum team, unless iSoc kills a scum tonight. Hence my suspicion.

 

5) The problem is, I don't know for certain if you're framed or not. On one side Rhizo denies it. On the other side Kitkat is convincing the town that it might actually be happening. Scums know what's actually happening, I don't. What I know is a player has announced that he is a JoAT, that the one he found guilty claimed a VT, and he has a vig ability to spare tonight. I'm taking the safest approach for town.

 

6) iSoc's probably saying about proving his JoAT ability, not about targeting a scum. Me, in the other hand, are very confident that there is scum on the WP wagon (excluding iSoc), which means Rhizo or Kitkat. If you, LS, turned out scum, then the target would easily be Rhizo. If you turned out town, then Kitkat is also a decent target. Either the worst chance is 50%. 

 

7. I assure you that if you turned out as town and iSoc didn't bring a scum's head tonight, town will kill him tomorrow. About roleblock, I think we has already decided that it doesn't prove anything on its own. That means that at the very most, scum iSoc is giving up his life for yours. In addition, iSoc brings up a nice number game to the table which isn't even discussed. Care to give me your opinion on this, Rhizo?

 

 

 

Anyway I wanna hear CoD's opinion on all this before making my final decision

 

This entire post just convinced me that my vote is in the right place. As Finster said:

 

I want to know why you're so hyper to defend iSoc - you've been very quick to defend him and have done so continually today.

[Rhizoctonia]

I can answer that, LS 1) Scum has a secondary name, as evidenced by MK yesterday. If you insist I think iSoc can give you his name 2 & 3) Scums will only defend their scum friends, as indirectly as possible. When they aren't under pressure, they would try to confuse the town as much as possible 4) No, even if Rhizo turned out scum we can't brand iSoc as a townie unless his vig ability kills a scum tonight. And let's say we assume Rhizo is scum while iSoc is joat, that means Rhizo (and his scum friends) knows for a fact that you are framed, no? That's why he's trying so hard to sell that "framing" has a very miniscule chance to happen. That way if iSoc turned out as town, town will kill you tomorrow. What if you're the one who got killed instead? Town will kill iSoc tomorrow. Win-win solution for scum team, unless iSoc kills a scum tonight. Hence my suspicion. 5) The problem is, I don't know for certain if you're framed or not. On one side Rhizo denies it. On the other side Kitkat is convincing the town that it might actually be happening. Scums know what's actually happening, I don't. What I know is a player has announced that he is a JoAT, that the one he found guilty claimed a VT, and he has a vig ability to spare tonight. I'm taking the safest approach for town. 6) iSoc's probably saying about proving his JoAT ability, not about targeting a scum. Me, in the other hand, are very confident that there is scum on the WP wagon (excluding iSoc), which means Rhizo or Kitkat. If you, LS, turned out scum, then the target would easily be Rhizo. If you turned out town, then Kitkat is also a decent target. Either the worst chance is 50%.  7. I assure you that if you turned out as town and iSoc didn't bring a scum's head tonight, town will kill him tomorrow. About roleblock, I think we has already decided that it doesn't prove anything on its own. That means that at the very most, scum iSoc is giving up his life for yours. In addition, iSoc brings up a nice number game to the table which isn't even discussed. Care to give me your opinion on this, Rhizo?   Anyway I wanna hear CoD's opinion on all this before making my final decision

Lyner:I want to know why you're so hyper to defend iSoc - you've been very quick to defend him and have done so continually today.

Cause it's his only way of survival. If isocialism is killed and found to be scum, he's screwed. He's already trying to push a lynch dependent on what LS would come up, none of which is Isocialism or himself if he comes up town. He only joined my wagon to force a TC knowing I am town and knowing he will just go back to LS wagon if it doesn't work to push out a claim. He's already back to that. He also insists the only way he would pull his vote off me is a Cop RC. Yet again, trying to force another RC to save me. He made his bed early today and now his only way is to keep isocialism alive today and then misdirect a lynch tomorrow on someone else when he's wrong

[Rhizoctonia]

I also have no problm role claiming to prove the Bs Lyner is claiming or him and KitKat trying to paint me as scum.

[Lyner]

Once again, avoiding and dismissing my entire argument simply because I seem to defend the "accused".

 

 

What part of my statement you didn't understand or disagree? If iSoc fails to deliver tonight, we kill him tomorrow. No BS, simple logic. If iSoc is scum, we're only down one VT in exchange.

[Sister Midnight]

I won't be on again before end of day. This is become a real nail biter. I sure hope we lynch the right person. I still think it is more likely that LS is scum. I am not changing my vote.

[Rhizoctonia]

So just to clear the air, and so everyone knows, I am town.  

 

I am  Nymphadora Tonks, the doctor.  

 

N1 - Protected Kevin (no idea where to put it, went with an experienced player who maybe lynched solely for that)

N2 - The more important night, protected CoD. (he seemed town and was the start of the lynch of SLMK).  Doesn't prove that is what stopped it, but a likely possibility.  I'm sold CoD is town either way

 

So take a look at the people who looked to push a roleclaim out, a few hours before it.  Hell even Lyner said, "Let's hear that RC."  Only a scum would want that, especially when you suddenly try to push it with only a few hours left to put doubt in others about me and hopefully save Isocialism.

 

Lyner jumped on it solely to push a roleclaim to help scum, knowing damn well I was town and he would revert back to voting LS to help Isocialism live today.  He's made his bed with Isocialism when he was quick to defend him at the start of the day, and I called him out for it.  He is doing all he can to not let his scum buddy die because it's over for him if he does.  He keeps talking about Isocialism proving himself tonight, the same thing Isocialism said, it's like the two finish each others sentences.  

 

So Lyner and kitkat can quit with trying to paint me as scum and take votes off Isocialism.  

 

If the rest of town can't see what's blatantly obvious, at least I'll likely be lynched tonight to not have to continue fighting this useless battle.  Fact is, Lyner keeps wanting to say we learn more from LS being lynched...no we don't, we can learn a lot more if Isocialism is and if he comes up scum who the hell's been defending him all day.

 

I surely hope the remainder of town get's a clue. 

[Lyner]

Assuming we lynch LS tonight, and that at least one scum is in the WP wagon, here are some permutations for your pleasure:

 

1. iSoc is Scum and LS is Town: iSoc will fail to deliver the kill tonight (JoAT vig in scum side? Probably a bluff), we lynch him tomorrow

 

2. iSoc is Town and LS is Scum: iSoc probably kills another scum (Kitkat or Rhizo), town most likely wins.

 

3. iSoc is Scum and LS is Scum: Town probably wins, let's think more about this possibility tomorrow.

 

4. iSoc is Town and LS is Town: Bad scenario for town, but at least iSoc could hit a scum to potentially prove his innocence. Rhizo becomes top suspect as he tried to deny the fact that a frame happened. Kitkat comes second as he shifted the vote as if he knew the frame actually happened. Ironic that both are suspicious for conflicting reasons. Hard to imagine that both of them are scum, so one of them should be scum.

 

 

See what I mean? Now if you reverse it, aka killing iSoc tonight, this happens instead:

 

1. iSoc is Scum and LS is Town: LS is free of charge.

 

2. iSoc is Town and LS is Scum: Bad scenario for town as we lose one potential vig kill, but at least we get one scum down

 

3. iSoc is Scum and LS is Scum: We can't confirm iSoc's alignment, he can just say that his ability is blocked or something and we won't have anything against iSoc

 

4. iSoc is Town and LS is Town: Worst scenario for town, as LS can't prove that he is framed. Same thing applies about Rhizo and Kitkat

 

 

So yeah, this isn't about taking sides, this is simply taking the safest approach.

[Rhizoctonia]

Once again, avoiding and dismissing my entire argument simply because I seem to defend the "accused".

 

 

What part of my statement you didn't understand or disagree? If iSoc fails to deliver tonight, we kill him tomorrow. No BS, simple logic. If iSoc is scum, we're only down one VT in exchange.

 

 

I am done arguing with you, I have spent all day calling your shit out.  You're scum, with your boy Isocialism.  I don't need to say anymore.  I wrote enough pages on the BS shit from the both of you.  It won't be because of me a mislynch happens tonight, and it wont be on me if town doesn't realize what you'll are doing.

[Finster Baby]

Once again, avoiding and dismissing my entire argument simply because I seem to defend the "accused".
 
 
What part of my statement you didn't understand or disagree? If iSoc fails to deliver tonight, we kill him tomorrow. No BS, simple logic. If iSoc is scum, we're only down one VT in exchange.

I'm not dismissing your argument per se, I want to know the reasons behind your argument - why you feel so compelled to defend iSoc. I also see your most recent post. That's all well and good, and good info to have, but I revert to the initial question: Why the staunch support for iSoc?

[Lyner]

Ok, that's a believable RC

 

Vote: LS

 

 

 

 

 

Once again, avoiding and dismissing my entire argument simply because I seem to defend the "accused".
 
 
What part of my statement you didn't understand or disagree? If iSoc fails to deliver tonight, we kill him tomorrow. No BS, simple logic. If iSoc is scum, we're only down one VT in exchange.

I'm not dismissing your argument per se, I want to know the reasons behind your argument - why you feel so compelled to defend iSoc. I also see your most recent post. That's all well and good, and good info to have, but I revert to the initial question: Why the staunch support for iSoc?

The most convincing one would be where he stated out the scum ratios even if he was scum, here.

 

Other than that, I'm mostly arguing the baseless accusations. And about me defending iSoc, it's all LS and Rhizo's words. I never spoke even once that iSoc must be the town or JoAT, try searching my posts. Lynching iSoc first is actually fine, but in the off chance, in the miniscule chance that both iSoc and LS are townies, town is pretty screwed. Hence why I prefer lynching LS first.

[SeaBeeGipson]

My only thing is we know from previous games TW has used scum JoAT before. I believe Rhizo himself was the scum JoAT.

It most certainly exists and can be used. Lyner stating we're making a mistake by targeting Isoc is rather questionable to me. What if he misses (assuming he is town JoAT), hits town and we're down a town? Assuming he is a scum JoAT, you give him a free night to hit who he wants. 

 

As far as Rhizo's RC,

I don't like the forced RC and I don't like how there isn't time for a possible counter-claim/discussion. Hopefully he survives to where we can discuss this more tomorrow.

[Wolfpacks]

Ok mind made up, im going with my original vote, i said i didnt trust anything he said and although i had a leaning the other way half way through the day ive decided to stick with my gut instinct

VOTE ISOCIALISM

[Rhizoctonia]

There's an obvious purpose or play why Lyner want's to keep Isocialism alive so badly.  Let alone, his defense of Isocialism is he has to deliver tonight on a scum.  The mere fact even if he would be town, you're suggesting a Vig take a shot where he as 3/10 chance of hitting a scum.  Let alone this whole day has been mainly about 2 single people, and not anyone else.  Let alone you made the comment, "It's a pretty obvious decision," or something along those lines of him picking a scum yet you're the one about to be part of a wagon of a town, and Isocialism already stating that if he's wrong he will let tonight speak, again giving him an excuse for being on the wrong wagon, just as he did D2.

 

You also want to keep saying Isocialism is dead if he doesn't deliver a scum.  Yet if he does, you obviously in your opinion believe he's town, which is already brought up

 

If Isocialism isn't lynched and LS comes up town, don't be surprised Isocialism continues his too perfect of a story knocking off one of his own tonight sacrificing a scum to concrete his Towness and to take all the heat off him and the other one.

 

 

Which your other scummate kitkat refuted as why he would do that.  Why would he do that...for the same reason you're suggesting, he's scum if he doesn't kill a scum, he's town if he does.  A scum is doomed no matter what, be it Isocialism or he uses another that is not looking good, the likes of you, and kills them off solidifying his town appearance for remainder of the game.  

 

Or

 

He could be a scum with a Vig ability that hasn't been able to be used til N3 (TW is known to put such restrictions), and keeping him alive 1 more night means you not only mislynch today, get a kill tonight from your normal kill, but also a 3rd.  Yea Isocialism is dead, will likely come out saying he guessed wrong and so forth.  It will be quite beneficial to make sure to keep a scum alive one more night to use a vig when you already had 1 kill stopped.