1108 replies to this topic

[brewersalliance]

I'm here, reading the posts now.

 

Lachiton, it's really bad you throw your info just before the deadline. Anyway I don't doubt your RC, it would be stupid to fake it. There's no paranoid cop in the possible roles list and I'm not a Miller, so it means I was hit by a framer.

 

Now assuming, I'm a town and there's a framer around: After D2 when I'm sharing my info about becoming lover, mafia gets 2 things to do. They either target me for a kill hoping to get more dead bodies in one shot, or they frame me, hoping I'll be investigated (since people are unsure of me). Killing was risky business since being obvious target I might be protected. On the other hand on N3 I was the best target for the framer (probably the highest chance to get investigated).

 

I'll add more soon...

 

 

You're now thinking what to do with your vote today.

 

1. Looking at me. I got investigated and turned out guilty. Due to the framer possibility (and taking D2 events into possibility it was more possible than just a blind luck) you cannot be sure of that result. The other thing that speak against me is my cupid mistake. Obviously noone except me knows that I'm a town, but you know there is nonzero possibility I actually might be a town. So, apart from that, looking at my play, do you have other arguments that would speak against me?

I don't want to play the "if I die, other town dies with me" card...I'll leave it to that possible other town to come out and tell it. Only thing I'm afraid now is how little time we got left today.

 

2. On the other hand we have MK. I won't repeat all the charges we've been making. Can you assume he's town and explain his actions in a reasonable fashion? Do you believe him to be town?

 

You need to ask yourself 2 questions:

- Do you believe MK is a scum and if there's anything else that can be added to his case. Do you need more time to work on his case?

- Do you believe ABT is a scum and if there's anything else that can be added to his case. Do you need more time to work on his case? I certainly would like to get more time to defend myself and in the end if you don't find my defense believable you'll lynch me next day.

so your defense is basically, "I was framed, there is zero way to prove it, so dont lynch me, lynch MK instead."

 

the whole cupid/lovers thing from d2 was almost as bad as MK.  not quite on his level but it is still up there.  

[Ali bin Turban]

 

To be fair I didnt know about Framer role so that thought didnt cross my mind until today. But just so you now it is still a convenient claim from you so unless you present more of your story, you're still in scum category.

 

I know, I'd have hard time to believe myself if I were you. I was in that situation already some time ago (hit by a paranoid cop) and I know it's hard to defend, but I know it's doable especially since we got several claims and confirmed townies to work on, making it easier to find other scums and prove I'm town. I just need more time. More than just one day till tomorrows deadline.

 

so your defense is basically, "I was framed, there is zero way to prove it, so dont lynch me, lynch MK instead."

 

the whole cupid/lovers thing from d2 was almost as bad as MK.  not quite on his level but it is still up there.  

 

There's more to say and analyze but not when it's 23:30 in my timezone and I was expected to be in bed 30 minutes ago. If you're in a hurry to lynch me today and think my case is as thoroughly discussed as MK's then I'm afraid I won't have time to defend.

[brewersalliance]

well there are aprox. 18.5 hours until deadline, so hopefully tomorrow you can come on and at least give us more thoughts.  

also is anyone in danger of a mod kill?  i dont even remember jazzy posting at all today 

[Rhizoctonia]

I'm here, reading the posts now.

Lachiton, it's really bad you throw your info just before the deadline. Anyway I don't doubt your RC, it would be stupid to fake it. There's no paranoid cop in the possible roles list and I'm not a Miller, so it means I was hit by a framer.

Now assuming, I'm a town and there's a framer around: After D2 when I'm sharing my info about becoming lover, mafia gets 2 things to do. They either target me for a kill hoping to get more dead bodies in one shot, or they frame me, hoping I'll be investigated (since people are unsure of me). Killing was risky business since being obvious target I might be protected. On the other hand on N3 I was the best target for the framer (probably the highest chance to get investigated).

I'll add more soon...

You're now thinking what to do with your vote today.

1. Looking at me. I got investigated and turned out guilty. Due to the framer possibility (and taking D2 events into possibility it was more possible than just a blind luck) you cannot be sure of that result. The other thing that speak against me is my cupid mistake. Obviously noone except me knows that I'm a town, but you know there is nonzero possibility I actually might be a town. So, apart from that, looking at my play, do you have other arguments that would speak against me?
I don't want to play the "if I die, other town dies with me" card...I'll leave it to that possible other town to come out and tell it. Only thing I'm afraid now is how little time we got left today.

2. On the other hand we have MK. I won't repeat all the charges we've been making. Can you assume he's town and explain his actions in a reasonable fashion? Do you believe him to be town?

You need to ask yourself 2 questions:
- Do you believe MK is a scum and if there's anything else that can be added to his case. Do you need more time to work on his case?
- Do you believe ABT is a scum and if there's anything else that can be added to his case. Do you need more time to work on his case? I certainly would like to get more time to defend myself and in the end if you don't find my defense believable you'll lynch me next day.

so your defense is basically, "I was framed, there is zero way to prove it, so dont lynch me, lynch MK instead."

the whole cupid/lovers thing from d2 was almost as bad as MK. not quite on his level but it is still up there.

Agreed. AbT is better Lynch.

[Canik]

So you are willing to lynch someone who you think is town before I revealed about AbT, believed me even after the reveal but now going onboard with brewers "sure way to make town lose" strategy? Hmm you just made the list for possible scums for me with that post.

What? There was a lot said after your reveal, you know. You'll have to forgive me for considering those arguements, considering the possibility you're not town and talking about what might be the most logical next step.

You getting upset over this is disappointing. I had hoped you'd show more willingness to die if town thought it best. That would've been more townie IMO. The reaction you did give.. a little scummy. Would be more scummy if you were straight up VT but since you're supposedly a JOAT it's somewhat understandable. Somewhat.

[Rhizoctonia]

 

So you are willing to lynch someone who you think is town before I revealed about AbT, believed me even after the reveal but now going onboard with brewers "sure way to make town lose" strategy? Hmm you just made the list for possible scums for me with that post.

What? There was a lot said after your reveal, you know. You'll have to forgive me for considering those arguements, considering the possibility you're not town and talking about what might be the most logical next step.

You getting upset over this is disappointing. I had hoped you'd show more willingness to die if town thought it best. That would've been more townie IMO. The reaction you did give.. a little scummy. Would be more scummy if you were straight up VT but since you're supposedly a JOAT it's somewhat understandable. Somewhat.

 

 

 

 

Hmmm, being ok to be mislynched.  Odd.  Scum partner #2 possibly

[Rhizoctonia]

I'm keeping a keen eye on Canik now.  Anyone doubting Lach IMO is looking scummy, and then him to say he should be willing to die to prove it is even more so.  I can understand the thought of the framer POSSIBLY being a role causing a wrong guilty result on AbT, but lynching Lach IMO is one of the worst ideas.  

[SeaBeeGipson]

I don't want to play the "if I die, other town dies with me" card...I'll leave it to that possible other town to come out and tell it. Only thing I'm afraid now is how little time we got left today.

 

I targetted you N1, as I felt using my abilities had two possible scenarios I could use it for. 1) I attach to a new player, not a likely target and keep myself alive. 2) I attach to a skilled player in the off-chance he might be scum. I believe I may have picked right. No offense to every other skilled player, I felt AbT was my best bet.


I am making this public because if AbT gets lynched, I will die anyway. I used my role in the sole purpose to try and attach to scum (very unlikely odds). A framer could very well exist and AbT + myself will be dead due to a framer. I'll keep my vote on AbT, as I have a 50/50 that a framer exists, but I don't want to second guess myself now.


During the entire cupid/nympho argument, I knew AbT meant a nympho. I am a nympho and that was an honest mistake of his. This information should be fully available to everyone to make the most education choice they have. I placed my ability in the off-chance AbT might be scum (he'd be a dangerous scum), and so far, I might've been right. I came into this game ready to take myself out with a scum. If he is town, and scum were looking for a RC, here it is. Scum have a choice if AbT survives (assuming he is town.) Lynch me (essentially a VT), AbT (2 for the price of 1), or hit the cop. Sorry AbT if you are town, but an investigation is worth more to me than a possible framer. 


Tl;DR
I'm nympho, attached to AbT, keeping my vote on AbT


Any questions on my motives were hopefully answered. Plus now town fully know who dies from a AbT lynch

[brewersalliance]

Here are my thoughts on everyone

 

most likely town:

-Brewersalliance

-Dark Fox

-Atliis

-SBG

Probably Town but not completely sold

-Lachiton

-Rhizo

Neutral Leaning town

-Yehom

-Mandy

Neutral

-KevinH

-Col Medved

-kitkat

Leaning Scum

-Jazzy

-Cannik

-ABT

Scum or Jester

MK

 

ABT is probably the right call today.  Sorry SBG  

[brewersalliance]

i am going back in my mind for the call out made by ABT on d2 that he was a lover.  It still makes no sense to me why he did that.  If he was town, all hid did was paint a big target on his back saying hey scum come lynch me and kill two townies.  I dont see ABT making that mistake.  being scum and trying to create a shield is the only logical reason for that call out I can think of and combine it now with Lachiton's call out of him and the fact that ABT has not made much of an effort to defend himself, other than saying I was framed, it is the right call.  ABT could have role called and provided us with some potential information, but he chose not to.  He tried to keep himself alive by saying "do we have enough time to decide if he is guilty, potentially buying him an extra day to find a way out of his situation.

 

vote ABT

[KevinH]

There's no paranoid cop in the possible roles list

 

"The following modifiers may also exist in this game ... Various Sanities ..."  Just sayin'.

Do I believe that one of the roles in a JOAT would be insane/paranoid? Maybe ...

[Colonel Medved]

I believe ABT has been given ample time to give a defense on him being town (being that he has posted a couple of times), and so far i can't say that it is enough for me to believe him. Since i work usually when the deadline happens, i'm going to go ahead and vote. Sorry SBG

 

Vote: ABT

 

Hopefully i will be able to re-visit the thread before the deadline, in case something develops that might change my decision.

[Yehom]

Ok holy shit what just happened? I've been busy with work these last few days, but this game actually exploded at the best possible time for me. Just a short summary for myself (and everybody else that can appreciate it) so I can order my thoughts a bit better.

 

1) Lachiton claims that Ali came up as GUILTY when he was investigated by Lachiton

2) People question why he would put up that information so late in the day, Lachiton claims that he wants this information out there just in case, but doesn't provide us with full information

3) This prompts Atliis to roleclaim as the actual cop

4) Lachiton then corrects the assumption that is created and fully roleclaims as a JOAT (a role previously claimed by MK) and he shares his actions with us (N2 investigated Ali as guilty, N3 protected Brewers)

5) Some back and forth between Atliis and Lachiton about the legitimacy of their claims, ultimately it seems town kind of believes both of them (which is possible)

6) General consensus is starting to sway into the direction of lynching Ali, because a for sure scum is better than an assumed scum (Ali vs MK)

7) SGB claims Nympho and confirms that he and Ali are lovers, yet is willing to sacrifice himself 

 

Regarding Lachiton I feel that his claims is believable, or at least a lot more believable than the previous JOAT claim that we got. The unfortunate thing was that him not fully role claiming prompted the actual cop to roleclaim. I personally believe that Lachiton played his role right. Use all your abilities and bait scum to kill you as you are basically a VT after you've used all your powers. His timing though was very off, which made people second guess his intentions and I agree that he should have opened with claiming that Ali was guilty, as that would have stirred the discussion the way he wanted, instead we get this almost afterthought and very rushed Ali wagon. Ali has been caught with his hand in the cookie jar, so I personally don't see why Lachiton was so keen on hearing his defense before he revealed everything. In my eyes his intentions were good, but he didn't play it out as good as he could. Do I believe it's possible that Lachiton is a scum JOAT. I highly doubt that he would go through the trouble of fabricating this story just to get Ali lynched. He would be trading his life (assuming Ali gets lynched first) for Ali's and I don't see scum thinking that that's a play worthwhile. 

 

Regarding Atliis I fully believe his claim as the town cop, which means that Brewers and Darkfox are 100% confirmed townies. However he had no business roleclaiming after Lachiton said that Ali came up as guilty. If Lachiton is scum, he just traded his life for the life of a cop as scum would know who to target. If Lachiton is town, scum would have targeted him after his ambiguous roleclaim, which means that actual cop has at least one more night action. It's a rookie mistake, but it's his first game, so it fits. 

 

Regarding SGB I honestly feel sorry for him. The fact that he is willing to vote for Ali despite the fact that his own fate is connected to Ali is telling in my eyes. After everything that happened during N2 regarding the whole nympho lover mixup and now with the information that has been revealed, I'm positive that Ali is most likely scum.

 

Vote: Ali

[Kitkat16]

This is all so bloody complicated. It all exploded at the last minute last night when I was asleep, and now I don't have a huge amount of time to think about it. Let me try and get my head around it. What it seems to boil down to is that Lach investigated AbT and he turned up guilty. However, we know that if there *IS* a framer in play, AbT would've been a prime target that night. We also know now from SBG's post that AbT's seemingly erratic play in the first day or two was an honest mistake. So I'm not sure why SBG's post carries particular weight, as some have suggested. It all comes down to AbT was found guilty.

 

On the flip side, we have MK, who has behaved fairly erratically. Yet this isn't out of the ordinary for MK.

 

[As far as lynching Lach is concerned, yes there's a possibility that he's scum trying to bait out the cop, but lynching him today would be an utterly stupid idea given the strong possibility that he is telling the truth. It's far too soon to lynch him even if we eventually decide that is the correct course of action.]

 

In short there are weaknesses to voting for either AbT or MK, because there's a slight possibility that either might genuinely flip town. However, we've gotta lynch *someone*. I think I'm going with MK, despite defending him earlier. What decided me was when Lach claimed to be JOAT. If Lach is telling the truth (which I think he probably is) it means either MK is lying or we have two townie JOATs, which seems unlikely. (Is it even possible according to the rules to have two of the same PR??) This also gives any investigative PRs (e.g. Atliis, perhaps?) the opportunity to check AbT during the night (assuming that Atliis survives the night, of course, but we might have protective PRs still in play, who knows.)

 

Vote: MK

[Canik]

 

 

So you are willing to lynch someone who you think is town before I revealed about AbT, believed me even after the reveal but now going onboard with brewers "sure way to make town lose" strategy? Hmm you just made the list for possible scums for me with that post.

What? There was a lot said after your reveal, you know. You'll have to forgive me for considering those arguements, considering the possibility you're not town and talking about what might be the most logical next step.

You getting upset over this is disappointing. I had hoped you'd show more willingness to die if town thought it best. That would've been more townie IMO. The reaction you did give.. a little scummy. Would be more scummy if you were straight up VT but since you're supposedly a JOAT it's somewhat understandable. Somewhat.

 

 

 

 

Hmmm, being ok to be mislynched.  Odd.  Scum partner #2 possibly

 

Not odd in my opinion. If I was a weak investigation role, made claims and people considered lynching me to have it proven, I wouldn't be too upset about it knowing that after my claims are proven true scum would be targetted next. If I was an actual cop I'd try to live more but the weaker the power role, the less the person should worry because trading your own life to take out a scum is still a big win for town. 

On the flip side, if you're scum in that scenerio, you being lynched first is the worst thing that can happen. So a scum is more likely to freak out. 

So logically, when no/weak roles freak out there should be at least a slight tendancy for them to be scum. Not saying Lach is for sure scum but to me, it's adds a tiny bit of suspicion. And although Lach has seemed town and I wouldn't be real surprised if his claim was true.. I don't completely close off my mind to suspicion against anyone until that are truly confirmed, which Lach is not. I always least my mind opened at least a crack until then and I'd think it odd if you didn't too. 

To make myself absolutely clear: I'm not saying Lach is for sure scum because of this. I'm just not sure he's town either and I'm going to question things I don't like until it is confirmed. I'm just explaining my logic behind my opinion that it would've been more town for Lach NOT to call me scummy for suggesting it may be better to lynch him first. 

One last thing - if I was AbT's scum partner, you really think I'd try to save him this way? What's my plan? I get Lach lynched, he flips town, then what? It's back to square one only now I'm a suspect too! w00! ????? Profit?

 

[KevinH]

There is no rule about not having two of the same role.

I've done it before and The Warrior confirmed it in this thread.

[Kitkat16]

There is no rule about not having two of the same role.

I've done it before and The Warrior confirmed it in this thread.

 

Oh, whoops.

[Canik]

"I highly doubt that he would go through the trouble of fabricating this story just to get Ali lynched. He would be trading his life (assuming Ali gets lynched first) for Ali's and I don't see scum thinking that that's a play worthwhile. " -Yehom

Well, he wants MK lynched first. Plus Ali has a lover so really it'd be his life for Ali, MK, SBG. Just sayin', for the record and what-not.

"(Is it even possible according to the rules to have two of the same PR??)" - Kitkat

Yes it's possible. Unusual, but possible. If there were going to be multiple of the same role too, JOAT is one that is more likely. Since it's not super strong. So.. kinda hard to read real deep into it.

 

[Canik]

unvote

Vote AbT

As I said earlier, MK can wait. I'd like to get this situation resolved first.

 

[DarkFox]

Man I am a bit overwhelmed here with whats going on. At this point I have no idea whats going on. So for the time being until I can sit down and sift through all the events I am going to keep my vote on MK.