635 replies to this topic

[lilweirdward]

Lol uhh...please elaborate? That could mean a lot of things.

[Imran Ehsan]

Interesting turn of events. Don't have time now to go through everything that was said, but we should not be quick to lynch anyone with a stone claim. Not entirely convinced if he is fake claiming or not, such late in the day, but we will have time for that later. For now I will switch my vote to jazz, he has been my no 1 scum suspect for a while.

Unvote zacch

Vote jazz

[lilweirdward]

N1 I watched brewers, as he is always a prime target, not much aside from that. Nothing.

I know Velocity is scum, because I targeted Brewers night 1 with my town role.

This may also be me misunderstanding what a watcher can actually see, someone please explain and I will either reinforce my claim or withdraw it.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Watcher

A Watcher is an investigative role that targets a player each night, and will learn which other players performed Night actions on the same target. (They do not learn about the nature of those actions, only the user.)

So if he is a watcher, then he should have seen you visit brewers, assuming that both claims are legit and there is no other funkiness at play.

[Imran Ehsan]

N1 I watched brewers, as he is always a prime target, not much aside from that. Nothing.

I know Velocity is scum, because I targeted Brewers night 1 with my town role.

This may also be me misunderstanding what a watcher can actually see, someone please explain and I will either reinforce my claim or withdraw it.

Wait. What?? I didnt see this when I posted. Now I am lost.

[Zacch]

 

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Watcher

A Watcher is an investigative role that targets a player each night, and will learn which other players performed Night actions on the same target. (They do not learn about the nature of those actions, only the user.)

 

 

So theoretically Velocity should have seen my role target on Brewers correct?

[brewersalliance]

 

N1 I watched brewers, as he is always a prime target, not much aside from that. Nothing.

 

I know Velocity is scum, because I targeted Brewers night 1 with my town role. 

This may also be me misunderstanding what a watcher can actually see, someone please explain and I will either reinforce my claim or withdraw it.

 

 

you might want to go into more details here with this...

 

like what the results were of your action as well

N1 I watched brewers, as he is always a prime target, not much aside from that. Nothing.

 

what was the exact wording of your result

 

There could be a roleblocker in play that targeted one of you two

[Zacch]

 

 

N1 I watched brewers, as he is always a prime target, not much aside from that. Nothing.

 

I know Velocity is scum, because I targeted Brewers night 1 with my town role. 

This may also be me misunderstanding what a watcher can actually see, someone please explain and I will either reinforce my claim or withdraw it.

 

 

you might want to go into more details here with this...

 

like what the results were of your action as well

 

N1 I watched brewers, as he is always a prime target, not much aside from that. Nothing.

 

what was the exact wording of your result

 

There could be a roleblocker in play that targeted one of you two

 

 

The results were null. No action was taken as a result of the target.

[Velocity]

My result was “No result,” which expressly means that I was not blocked, as that returns a different result (unless TW is breaking from the norms that the wiki posits.

It sounds like Zacch also was given a “no result” result, which leads to a few things:

1. It sounds like he also may be some kind of tracker/watcher type role, has there ever been a scenario where two watchers target the same person? Would each watcher see the other, or would neither of them see the other? I would presume they would see each other, but maybe not. And if he is some kind of watcher/tracker, he would have seen my action I would presume.

2. Zacch’s role could be a Ninja role. While ninja roles, to my knowledge, are almost exclusively mafia, there are cases where they are town roles (whether the person is aware of it or not). This may be the cause of me not seeing him.

3. Zacch could be scum and trying to get me lynched, though I don’t think this is the case but is definitely possible.

I think that just saying something like that without a proper role claim is pointless, and only sows confusion near the end of the day.

[Robert2424]

A watcher watches a player each night. He sees what players if any visit that player. Only "ninja roles" can't be seen. Those "ninja" roles are only scum.

[Velocity]

A watcher watches a player each night. He sees what players if any visit that player. Only "ninja roles" can't be seen. Those "ninja" roles are only scum.

Ninja is not a scum-only role, it is just “generally” scum/TP.

“The Ninja modifier is most commonly used to protect the Mafia's (or a Serial Killer's) nightkill from being tracked, but does function to protect other roles from observation as well; the modifier could even be useful for a Cop or similar role to prevent the Mafia discovering that they were investigated, but is generally only seen in the hands of anti-town players, for whom it is a lot more powerful.”

[Robert2424]

I've only seen it as a scum thing so assumed. If town had a "ninja" addon. It would mean Scum would have to have a watcher, tracker, follower, or Voyeger.

As I said Day 1. If a Voyeger is in play, and we know there was one, (Kevin), and with the amount of players, there is likely the other 3. Watcher, (current claim by Velocity and no counter claim), Tracker, and my personal Favorite role to put in a game, Follower. The 4 sister roles.

[brewersalliance]

My result was “No result,” which expressly means that I was not blocked, as that returns a different result (unless TW is breaking from the norms that the wiki posits.

It sounds like Zacch also was given a “no result” result, which leads to a few things:

1. It sounds like he also may be some kind of tracker/watcher type role, has there ever been a scenario where two watchers target the same person? Would each watcher see the other, or would neither of them see the other? I would presume they would see each other, but maybe not. And if he is some kind of watcher/tracker, he would have seen my action I would presume.

2. Zacch’s role could be a Ninja role. While ninja roles, to my knowledge, are almost exclusively mafia, there are cases where they are town roles (whether the person is aware of it or not). This may be the cause of me not seeing him.

3. Zacch could be scum and trying to get me lynched, though I don’t think this is the case but is definitely possible.

I think that just saying something like that without a proper role claim is pointless, and only sows confusion near the end of the day.

No result tends to mean you were blocked FYI

 

with a watcher in the past TW would say something like: No one visited Brewers

the exact wording is VERY important, hence why i asked.

 

Zacch, saying null doesnt help.  you are being very coy

[lilweirdward]

My result was “No result,” which expressly means that I was not blocked, as that returns a different result (unless TW is breaking from the norms that the wiki posits.

A Watcher's action can fail due to, e.g., a Roleblocker targeting them or an attempt to watch an Ascetic target; in these cases, the Watcher will be aware that their action has failed, and will receive a no result PM. This result should be clearly distinct from the result obtained when successfully watching a player, but with no other actions on that player to watch; a "no result" result leaves it unclear who if anyone targeted the Watcher's target, whereas a "no actions" result guarantees that nobody else (other than a possible Ninja) targeted the Watcher's target.

Just because the wiki says that it should be clear doesn't mean that TW would definitely follow that guidance. I'm trying to recall an example but I feel like TW has done games where he gives ambiguous results when an action is blocked instead of simply returning no results, and I'm positive that some mods have done it that way instead of telling players the difference.

If Zacch also got no result (assuming that's what he means by null), then it seems like brewers was probably jailed. There are other explanations - maybe you were role blocked and so Zacch saw nothing - but a jail keeper seems most likely, especially if it was targeted on brewers D1 since he's usually such a big target early.

[Robert2424]

Well. Is there any Role, now that I think about it, that would make them immune to being watched? Like acetic or something?

[brewersalliance]

per the wiki:  A Watcher's action can fail due to, e.g., a Roleblocker targeting them or an attempt to watch an Ascetic target; in these cases, the Watcher will be aware that their action has failed, and will receive a no result PM.

 

 

 

No result means your action was blocked/failed

[Velocity]

per the wiki: A Watcher's action can fail due to, e.g., a Roleblocker targeting them or an attempt to watch an Ascetic target; in these cases, the Watcher will be aware that their action has failed, and will receive a no result PM.



No result means your action was blocked/failed

Ahhh sorry, I must’ve misread when I skimmed that page. Disregard part of my above post lol

[lilweirdward]

Well. Is there any Role, now that I think about it, that would make them immune to being watched? Like acetic or something?

Yes, ascetic is immune to all night actions except kills. I don't think I've ever seen it in a game since I started playing but brewers could be that.

[brewersalliance]

so velocity's action failed in some way, so that would make sense that he would not see Zacch targeting me.  

 

Well. Is there any Role, now that I think about it, that would make them immune to being watched? Like acetic or something?

Yes, ascetic is immune to all night actions except kills. I don't think I've ever seen it in a game since I started playing but brewers could be that.

 

 

its been in games.  ive used it, TW has used it.

@zacch you need to tell us exactly what the results are.  Wording of the results is super important.  

@velocity what was the result you got world for word n2

[Robert2424]

I thought so. I doubt Brewers is though.

[Zacch]

I'm still not 100% clear on what a watcher is able to detect, is the detection made on the targeting of someone or does it required the targeted action be executed?

 

For example if a roleblocker targets someone but that person doesn't take a blockable action, would the roieblockers targeting of said person be detectable by the watcher?