1469 replies to this topic

[Narsis]

maybe?

i have absolutely no idea what crazyemolad is up to, but everything else i'm getting.

The 'Damn, you guys are boring' VOTE COUNT
Junkahoolik (1): Firkked

Not Voting (12): Narsis, Junkahoolik, Electric Mango, KevinH, Sir Jesus, crazyemolad, Falzis, Kaziocore, Aquinas, Martino, CanucksDynasty, angel of doom

Edited by molestargazer, 28 October 2009 - 10:59 AM.

[Firkked]

The only thing I would be concerned with is whomever draws up the list.

I get good town vibes from CD right now, so I'll go along with N! suggested assignments. D2 is a whole new ball of wax.

Right now I'm more interested in hearing more from others beyond the people dominating pages 2 through 6, especially Falzis...

Still haven't heard much debate on the no lynch strategy. I'm not opposed to it, but I like the chance to catch scum and get people started on voting records ASAP.

[Firkked]

EBWOP:

The only thing I would be concerned with is whomever draws up the list for where people move to after the day is complete.

I get good town vibes from CD right now, so I'll go along with N1 suggested assignments. D2 is a whole new ball of wax.

[Narsis]

The only thing I would be concerned with is whomever draws up the list.

I get good town vibes from CD right now, so I'll go along with N! suggested assignments. D2 is a whole new ball of wax.

Right now I'm more interested in hearing more from others beyond the people dominating pages 2 through 6, especially Falzis...

Still haven't heard much debate on the no lynch strategy. I'm not opposed to it, but I like the chance to catch scum and get people started on voting records ASAP.

would be nice to hear from SJ as well.

[angel of doom]

we could let a random number generator decide who goes where, that way its completely impartial

[angel of doom]

also for those who were wondering:

falzis: Last Seen: 26th October 2009 - 12:48 PM

sj:Last Seen: Yesterday, 01:15 PM

sj seems to be lurking

[Martino]

we could let a random number generator decide who goes where, that way its completely impartial

No, there is no way to check what the outcome of the random number generator was. You can just make up any list and claim the order was determined by the random number generator.

I would be in favor of either using the sign up order or letting someone we all consider a townie make the list. Actually thinking about it some more, I prefer the second way of making the list. Everyone already knows the sign up order. So if the scum doesn't like the order, they can just vote against based on other arguments, whereas if they like the order they can vote for. So we would first have to agree upon one person making the list before he can publish the list. I would nominate Narsis, as his splitting up in 4 factions that cannot reach eachother at night is clearly a pro town strategy.

[Electric Mango]

I'm fine with letting Narsis choose the list of who goes where. He seems pro-town to me.

For the record, I would like to have it acknowledged that I thought of that idea before Narsis even suggested it. That is why I FOS'd Aquinas and KevinH and asked Mole for clarification if we could tell where people chose to spend the night.

Als we should split into 5 sections, not 4.



Sections

2, 3, 5, 7, and 8.

This will put us all into non adjacent compartments while at the same time exploring as much as the plane as possible.

I highly doubt there will be any night kills as we would quickly close in on the scum. It's for this reason that I think we should hold off on a Day 1 lynch and give our cop time to investigate.


Also, why is KevinH not pushing for a Day 1 lynch? He's usually first to jump on that train but I haven't heard him say anything about it during a game where it actually makes sense. This, plus the fact that he was for everyone moving to a different compartment makes him the most suspicious.

[Kaziocore]

EM you have forgotten this rule

3-1. Players may NOT stay in Location 5 overnight.

so we are really stuck with the splitting into 4

[Narsis]

No, there is no way to check what the outcome of the random number generator was. You can just make up any list and claim the order was determined by the random number generator.

I would be in favor of either using the sign up order or letting someone we all consider a townie make the list. Actually thinking about it some more, I prefer the second way of making the list. Everyone already knows the sign up order. So if the scum doesn't like the order, they can just vote against based on other arguments, whereas if they like the order they can vote for. So we would first have to agree upon one person making the list before he can publish the list. I would nominate Narsis, as his splitting up in 4 factions that cannot reach eachother at night is clearly a pro town strategy.

i'm still against making a list in the first place. what was the reason you wanted to make a list again? to avoid townie mistakes? i think that the idea Kazio mentioned for keeping track of who is where would work fine at limiting townie mistakes. so why is the list needed?

[Kaziocore]

i'm still against making a list in the first place. what was the reason you wanted to make a list again? to avoid townie mistakes? i think that the idea Kazio mentioned for keeping track of who is where would work fine at limiting townie mistakes. so why is the list needed?

I thought people ignored it because no one commented it except you.

[crazyemolad]

im getting lost, ( first real game of mafia )

[angel of doom]

trust me this isnt standard

[Falzis]

So many pages already. Sorry I'm quite busy with a debate tournament. I really promise to catch up in a day or two. We just reached semifinals so we will still be competing tomorrow.

[molestargazer]

im getting lost, ( first real game of mafia )

You picked an unfortunate first game.
No matter, you'll get into it once people stop discussing the setup and start scumhunting.

[Aquinas]

You guys are burning this thread up. Sorry I couldn't keep up. I follow on my phone but I am tied down pretty regularly between class and work so you have to excuse my interjections rather than continuing discussion.

For my two cents anyway, I think we should make a list/picking hybrid. I think it would give us more information.

Remembering:

5. Players may only carry out night actions on players they in the same area as.
5-1. Any players with night powers may move ONE area adjacent to the one they chose to carry out their actions. This is done by PMing their move with their action.

Therefore when a night action is carried out we can look at who was assigned to specific rooms and why they deviated etc.

Furthermore:

3. After a player has been lynched, the game thread will remain open for 48 hours. During this time, all players must post which location they are going to move to for the night, using the MOVE: Area 4 or MOVE: Economy Seating format. This is posted in-thread.

We can see where people choose to move no matter what. All moves that are not night kill related get posted in thread. So we have a master list of where everyone was supposed to be and if we see them resting somewhere else over night we can allege that its doubtful anyone was stupid enough to not copy and paste their room assignment from our master list. If we can look at an individual basis of people deviating from the plan we are in good shape. If we have people choosing their own rooms I would say it gives the mafia a greater advantage to get themselves into the room they would like. If we have people pick we allow for the first four people to pick one of four rooms without replacement. Those choices are pretty arbitrary considering we do not yet know the benefits of each room. Then we have people stacking. Who decides the order we choose to pick our rooms is? If we go by the signup list we can target what the options were of the person who selected the room that the night action took place in. For example if
1. Narsis
2. Junkahoolik
3. Electric Mango
4. KevinH

pick our four rooms in that order and we find that there is a night kill on Electric Mango we know that one of the other two people in his room are scum. However, we also know that the scum that picked that room had a better reason to pick that room than the others. So, we can say that if in the second room drafting round Sir Jesus moved to Electric Mango's room we can conclude that the other rooms may have been filled with other scum known to Sir Jesus. If someone is in the situation multiple nights, (especially if we have a similar map of the island) we can speculate why they may not be targeting a certain individual. If we continue down the sign up list (manifest-for flavor?) each night it might help us to use process of elimination on the scum targets.

Also, I wonder how night kills will be delegated by the scum. I've never been scum so I might have the mechanics wrong here but don't "vanilla scum" come to a consensus about who they are going to kill and that must be sent to the moderator. So if we know that the scum can only carry about an action in a room they are in that night could they kill in any number of rooms that they are located in because they made the decision together? Would they all have to be in the same room? Or, can we assume their is a Godfather role that commits the night kill in a room he is in.

As far as a lynch goes I don't think we need worry about that just yet. I don't think anyone has given a serious enough rational to be voted for. (Obviously Electric Mango disagrees with me - ) I think it would be more appropriate to draft a solid plan, one that we all can agree to and then target dissenters of that plan etc. etc. etc. It seems we might have enough numbers to get away with a no lynch on D1 and then not regret it later in the game when we needed one more turn to lynch a known scum. Thats WIFOM obviously - what if we had lynched an extra townie on D1 etc. etc. etc.

Anyway, that is where I stand for now. I'll be on as often as I have significant information to relate. I doubt i'll be getting into as much back and forth as you all seem to have thus far however.

P.S. If you all find that to be considerably impossible to follow, let me know and i'll get to rephrasing. I changed my mind about something half way through so, I'll fix any inconsistencies I missed if they are seriously detracting from your understanding of my point.

[Firkked]

^ Clear as Mafia Mud right there

Regardless, I did follow and have nothing to add to my "I'm not against a no lynch, just give me a persuasive reason" and "I'm ok with a list" positions.

I would like, at this time, the list to be drafted by either CD or Narsis, both of whom I get good vibes from.

Unvote

[CanucksDynasty]

Pros for a lynch on D1:
1. Voting pattern obtained
2. Each separate room would have 3 people in it.
3. If a nk happened on N1, the number of suspects is 2 instead of a possible 3 (in the room that contained 4 people in it).
4. D2 we would have a 50/50 chance of lynching mafia

Cons for a lynch on D1:
1. We probably would lynch a townie.

vs

Pros for a no lynch on D1:
1. We don't risk lynching a townie.

Cons for a no lynch on D2:
1. No voting pattern obtained
2. If nk happens on D1, it will probably happen in the room with 4 people in it.
3. The suspect pool would be 3 people.
4. D2 - we would have 33% of lynching mafia.


So basically...
Lose 2 townies to get better odds of lynching mafia
or
Lose 1 townie and have smaller odds of lynching mafia.

I think I'm in favour for a lynch.

[KevinH]

For the record, I would like to have it acknowledged that I thought of that idea before Narsis even suggested it. That is why I FOS'd Aquinas and KevinH and asked Mole for clarification if we could tell where people chose to spend the night.

This, plus the fact that he was for everyone moving to a different compartment makes him the most suspicious.

You are getting the facts wrong. Remember these posts?

• After someone is killed, we can put suspicion on everyone in the same and adjacent compartments.

I propose we leave 2 locations empty and have 5 locations with 2 players and 1 location with 3 players.

I agree that 4 separate locations is a better strategy than the one I suggested but mine would only be slightly less optimal.

If we self-select, that will give the scum a potential advantage.

By self-select, I mean allowing each player to choose where he wants to go (even within constraints). If the mafia wanted to spread out, we couldn't stop them. If the mafia wanted to do something in the cockpit, we couldn't stop them.

I am in favor of someone publishing a list and everyone following it. CD's list is as good as any.

[KevinH]

also please please please lets not get into the day 1 lynch no lynch argument again

He's usually first to jump on that train but I haven't heard him say anything about it during a game where it actually makes sense.

Vote: No Lynch