Preston

Okay, I've added Nick The Great as a replacement. I'm going to go with the current set of 9 as a game size, which will mean a setup of 2 mafia and 7 town per what we've had in recent games - no reason to change that up at least. I'll cobble together some roles here in the next day or two and set up the thread. My only real question (for past mods - Kazio?) is how to set up mafia talk. When I originally played we used the forum's messenger but I dont know if that's terribly stable - what have you used for past game(s)?

Well this IS a signup thread now, preparing for the next game. Are you interested in joining this game, or want to watch a round as it develops first? You could also be a backup in case someone goes inactive.

Glad to see that I played in a memorable way! I don't mind modding a game for variety though.

@KevinH - Still watching the signups, and I've looked at some of those open setups - but knowing the rough final headcount is kinda crucial to settling on a choice. We got to 8 pretty fast - shows you who's been active and watching! I'd like 9 at least, but can work with 8 if we dont get anyone else in the next few days, say by mid-week or so. @Nick The Great - I'm sure some others here can explain it far more eloquently, but it's a mental game of suspicion with other people also being suspicious. Feel free to take a look at some of the past game archives in the forum - might want to skip a page or two in since the beginning tends to be a little random, but further in the logic comes out as people start building and presenting theories to support their arguments with each other.

Okay, posted! Let's see how many are interested, and I'll come up with some rules/roles for it.

Players: Rafay Electric Mango Montosh Kaziocore Imran Ehsan KevinH Robert2424 Lyner d3mon Replacements: Nick The Great Setup: TBD! I will likely either emulate the recent Matrix mafia or mix up some interesting roles from mafiascum. If any past hosts have advice on balance, I'd appreciate the input but make no guarantees about using all of it (since that would possibly give you game info!) Let's see how many are interested in signing up, and I'll work the numbers from there; dont take the 1-9 above as a maximum, post if you are interested! -Preston

I havent played Mafia in a decent while, but it's typically fun to watch the paranoia. Not to step on Commander Shepard's toes, but given the past week's silence and since people are waiting I could start a sign up thread and see how many sign up while I figure out some rules/roles for the game.

Descent Where the ceilings can be walls or floors or doors, and instead of forward/back/left/right you have forward/back/turnleft/turnright/pitch/yaw/roll.... Hope you dont get motion sick! I had a lot of fun doing PvP over a modem in Descent 2, and made a few multiplayer levels using the provided editor... it had a lot of potential. Then Descent 3 tried going far more 3d, and ruined some of it...

Much nostalgia. May as well throw two of my own into the mix: http://nerdbacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/sensor.jpg http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20060901/descent.jpg Edit: Just noticed Samus mentioned contra just in the prior post, sans image. But it's still classic enough to be included here.

Hm. Well your having found the other power role and us still having a chance at ALL would mean that it's a jailer instead of a doc, and their only chance is to jail one of you two and play the 50% odds game since they cant protect themselves. Leaves things quite up to chance! Also, I'm curious - objectively, do you all think I should have roleclaimed on day 2 when I'd found EM on night 1? I was hoping to swing votes that way without claiming, so that I could investigate SOMEONE on night 2... I figured that a day 2 claim would all but guarantee me being killed on night 2. I probably could/should have claimed earlier in the day today after EM fakeclaimed, but I figured doing so immediately would weaken my position. Really, the main thing that threw me off was EM's going with CoD on day 1... very misleading indeed. Well played. -Preston

Bleh, sometimes its annoying you cant edit posts! Just one more addendum then I'm done. Martino/Rafay/Xarastier - if any of you is a doc or a jailer, DONT claim now! If you're a doc, block someone else and hope you get lucky. If you're a jailer, then you can block either EM or CoD and hope with 50% odds you blocked the right one. If we dont have either and I was the only power role, then town has no means to prevent a scum win at this stage. It's funny... CoD could have gone along with lynching EM today, and then had us lynch either Rafay or xarastier tomorrow - and noone would have really suspected him. He tipped his hand by hammering today the way he did, a little earlier than a 100% assured win. I'll be quite amused if we DO manage to block a night kill tonight and now know exactly who the scum are for tomorrow. -Preston

One more addendum: the reason i was looking for roleclaims from other town was to hope that we DID have a doc or jailer, so that I could 'safely' claim and not be the only power role out there. A doc would've been helpful... but if I was choosing between Rafay and Xarastier and one turned up not town, we would have lynched the other... and that'd be game over anyway since it looks like CoD was it. Bah. I guess in retrospect we might have hope... if we DO have a doctor or jailer among those of us left and they can block the night kill, then we know it's EM and CoD for tomorrow. If we dont block... then it's game over. -Preston

Since it's done with at this point, I'll throw it out: I was the cop this game. I investigated EM on night 1, saw him as scum. From that I drew that CoD *must* be town because EM was voting for him, since I thought he wouldnt vote for a scum buddy on day 1. Knowing EM was scum, I waited a while on day 2 until I saw who he pushed for - and hence concluded Imran was town along with CoD, since whoever EM voted for had to be town. Thats why I suddenly shifted suspicion to EM on day 2, figuring Imran and CoD had to be innocent - and why I was saying it could not be BOTH CoD and someone, since I knew EM was scum. But it seems CoD *was* scum... which pulled the premise out from under a lot of my analysis :-/ I didnt want to roleclaim on day 2 even though I had a positive match, since not knowing if we had a doc would keep me from investigating on night 2 if they killed me. I investigated Martino on night 2, proved he was town. When EM fakeclaimed at the start of today, I figured he HAD to have investigated me last night and saw I was the cop - but I didnt want to immediately claim, again. Perhaps I should have... ah well. First time with an actual power role for me :-p -Preston

... Ah. So it was EM and CoD huh. Damn. You really did have me fooled CoD :-/ Good game. -Preston

Unvote Electric Mango. Vote Preston for obvious reasons. Btw, I'm a townie. And now we have EM, Xarastier and Rafay *all* voting for me. Which of Xarastier and Rafay is town just gets harder to determine - they both are saying they are town but neither is actually roleclaiming to back up the statement. Rafay voted first saying we could 'risk' a mislynch today, and now Xarastier is voting "for obvious reasons" - aka no reason. So is Xarastier the scum jumping on after Rafay voted, or is Xarastier town joining an existing bandwagon started by the two scum EM and Rafay? I'm a little surprised EM's fake Cop roleclaim is actually convincing whichever of the two is actually town; doubly so since I'm the only one who was NOT voting for a townie yesterday! The three known town at present are myself, Martino and CoD; so long as none of us applies the hammer then they cant end the day fast. We still have ten days to work out how we're going to test Xarastier and Rafay's towniness for tomorrow. I'd rather we not be stuck *guessing* between them tomorrow. We've asked Xarastier and Rafay to roleclaim, and so far they havent done so and both have posted. They need to roleclaim today so that we can have something to work with tomorrow - I was hoping whichever of the two is actually town would have been willing to come forward and claim since they really ARE innocent. A townie has should have no reason to lie in a roleclaim at this stage; whatever they say should be the truth. CoD, Martino - if you As for the rest of us claiming - again I think scum already knows who has a role at this point through past investigations and process of elimination for who's left. I'd like to see all three of us claim, and I know we're hesitant to do so on our own. -Preston

What are your thoughts on everyone roleclaiming as I've described? It would be good to not be relying on "If we have" today so that we can better plan tonight. You and Martino are town, so whatever you two say about your roles will be the truth and we can make plans with that information. Rafay/Xarastier's claims will be something we can review and test, depending on what they say. If they dont roleclaim *today* then tomorrow at LYLO whichever of them is scum can claim they 'were' the doctor or something and didnt protect the right target, etc etc. We need the info today while we can set up tests for what they claim. Come to think of it, I would prefer Rafay/Xarastier post their roleclaims before CoD/Martino/Myself - the two being tested before the rest of us. Easier to catch scum in a lie that way. May as well ask for it now while we've got over an actual week left; no excuse for them to suddenly go inactive and avoid the question during the final days. How about it you two? Rafay, Xarastier - You're both going to claim you're really town, so now's an opportunity to prove it. What roles do you have, if any? Options are Vanilla Townie, Cop, Doctor, Jailer; which are you? -Preston

It's not going to change our lynch regardless; rather if we HAVE both a doc/jailer and a cop, then both being known can mean that the cop can claim and safely do their investigation tonight on Rafay/Xarastier. If we have a doctor + cop, doctor protects the cop. If the cop still dies then the doctor lied. If we have a jailer + cop, the jailer can jail one of Rafay/Xarastier while the cop investigates the other. If the night kill ISNT blocked, then the one jailed was not scum (or the jailer lied). If the night kill is blocked or scum chooses NOT to kill to try and mess with us, cop will have an investigation result. So I think having the info out here now to coordinate these tests is in our favor. -Preston Hmm it is actually an interesting point. It really depends on what our powerroles are. If we have a cop+doc combination, it is clearly in our best interest if they claim today. If we have a roleblocker, it is also in our best interest if he claims today. He could publicly state which of Xarastier/Rafay they are going to roleblock. If there still is a kill, that means the other of those two is scum and we win. If there is no kill, we lynch one of them and, should that turn out to be a townie, roleblock the other one the next night and win the next day. However, if we have either only a cop or only a doc, they should most definitely not roleclaim since it would simply end in their death. So, it kind of depends on what you prefer. I think I would still favor waiting another day before roleclaiming. If we have a roleblocker, he can still do his job without roleclaiming. We will only get into trouble if he gets killed tonight, since in that case we would not know who he roleblocked. However, that can easily be remedied by all of us listing who we are going to roleblock if we are the roleblocker. Then if he gets killed tonight, we would know who he roleblocked and thus we would know that that person was not scum and we lynch the other of Xarastier/Rafay. Basically, that means that we only gain something by roleclaiming today if we have both a cop and a doc. However, we would lose our powerrole if it turns out that we have only a cop or only a doc. The tricky part here is that the scum has had two opportunities to investigate a townies role. It seems unlikely that they investigated Imran, so I would say they investigated two people who are still alive. Evidently, the first one was a townie (he would have gotten killed otherwise), but we don't know about the second one. In any case, with 4 townies alive, even if they have found two townies so far, they have at least a 50% chance of killing off our powerrole tonight. So that actually makes me lean more towards a roleclaim. I think I need to consider this for a bit longer, since I have been flipflopping between pro/against roleclaiming while typing this post. My problem with waiting til tomorrow is that we'll be at LYLO then, and unable to act on what we learn from people having claimed and then testing their claims. Technically we're at LYLO today, but since we have EM to lynch that will buy us another day. To reiterate my previous post: Today we're at 4 town, 2 scum. Lynch EM today: 4 town, 1 scum Night kill happens: 3 town, 1 scum. So tomorrow if we lynch the wrong person we will be at 2 town, 1 scum Night kill: 1 town, 1 scum and scum wins. So unless we are able to block a night kill, failure tomorrow is game over. Hence I would prefer to get roles claimed today so that they are testable tonight to inform our LYLO decision tomorrow. As for losing a power role when they claim; you were correct in your post when you said that scum has had two nights to investigate people, and odds are good they are both still alive - which means that the scum have either already found a role, or among the two left tonight they will kill one and investigate the other. So the chances are good that a power role will die tonight whether we claim today or not. I think it's cards-on-the-table time for us to figure out the best way to finish the game. Maybe we'll get lucky and EM is their scum role cop. You are right that Xarastier's and Rafay's votes could be distancing votes. But there is also the matter of EM calling me out yesterday when I made a post assuming Xarastier was a townie (posts #195 and #196). I don't think EM would have called me out for that post if Xarastier was his partner. I would think he would have been happy with me implicitely stating Xarastier was town. Still, I am not ready to conclude that Rafay must be the second scum, but he is higher on my list than Xarastier. Combined with Rafay's sudden vote for me with EM, that does indeed have me wondering. I need to look back, but my memory is of Rafay having a lot of posts where he sorta supports EM or in general doesnt do more than agree with others - either he's a timid townie or he's trying to follow EM's lead and make EM's case seem better. Per above Rafay - today is LYLO (LYnch or LOse). That means we cannot 'risk' another townie death - if we dont get scum today, it's game over and town loses. Your sudden change is extremely suspect, especially with yourself and Xarastier being decided between to see which of you two is EM's partner. -Preston

Also, with both Xarastier and Rafay voting for EM, it's distancing votes - question is if Xarastier doing so immediately was planned by scum at night, since EM was clearly going to be today's lynch regardless. -Preston

It's not going to change our lynch regardless; rather if we HAVE both a doc/jailer and a cop, then both being known can mean that the cop can claim and safely do their investigation tonight on Rafay/Xarastier. If we have a doctor + cop, doctor protects the cop. If the cop still dies then the doctor lied. If we have a jailer + cop, the jailer can jail one of Rafay/Xarastier while the cop investigates the other. If the night kill ISNT blocked, then the one jailed was not scum (or the jailer lied). If the night kill is blocked or scum chooses NOT to kill to try and mess with us, cop will have an investigation result. So I think having the info out here now to coordinate these tests is in our favor. -Preston

Good eye CoD - you cant have three results in two nights. Out of that list EM is confirmed scum and threw a fake roleclaim today - the only question is whether Rafay or Xarastier is his partner. It's an interesting tactic EM used to try and claim as the cop, but when he botches the numbers like that it proves him false. EM will be today's lynch - I was hoping he would have been yesterday's, but here we are now. What's interesting is that he DID try to specify two others as town. Martino is town, Rafay is uncertain. Two interpretations; 1) he specified two actual townies so that they would support his roleclaim and vote against me, or 2) Rafay is his partner and he's trying to give his partner cover. I'm inclined currently to believe option 1, which would mean Xarastier is his partner. However, I'm not going to immediately vote for EM - the day's barely started after all. EM started with a fakeclaim, but we need to ask if at this point we should all consider doing actual roleclaims to find out if we DO have a doctor or jailer this game. Right now the game stands at 4 town, 2 scum. When EM is lynched today it will be 4 town, 1 scum. If the scum night kill is unblocked we will be down to 3 town, 1 scum. If we have a role able to possibly block a kill, that could change the equation... so I'm leaning towards asking a town doc/jailer (if any) to reveal themselves now. Thoughts? -Preston

Well, that's that for the day then I guess. I cant fault martino for voting what he's been pushing. I'll have to watch EM tomorrow then, as at this stage I very much doubt Imran is scum. -Preston

Now we have two at L-3, so no one player has MORE votes. Martino, CoD - looking at you here. Also, shameless statement; if EM proves scum, odds are I'll have a big ol' target on me for the scum night kill! If we do have a doc and/or jailer, might be nice to protect me tonight - could actually have a chance of blocking the scum's night kill. WIFOM I know, they could just go after someone else... but yeah. Let's see what happens. -Preston

Addendum: Killgor, if you find their rapid voting to be suspect, consider swapping to EM to help me prove/test my suspicions there. If we get myself, martino, CoD and Imran voting for EM, that's another L-1; and you could help finalize that vote. -Preston

When I see both EM, Xarastier and Killgor - basically my whole potential scum list - voting for the same person, this does NOT give me confidence in the lynch target's scumminess; if anything it convinces me of the opposite. I urge everyone to reconsider whom to bandwagon for today's lynch; but if Imran must die, then at minimum it will support my suspicions on everyone now voting for him. If somehow Imran is town I'll be very surprised indeed... but I dont think so. However I will not be the one to apply the hammer here. Imran is now at L-1, and the day could end at any time. I've been a pretty vocal critic today of those whom I've accused, and so I'm kinda expecting a scum target on me tonight. Maybe they'll let me live to support the theory that these people ARENT scum... but if I die tonight, please follow my short list and lynch EM first tomorrow. -Preston

We have the weekend and a day or so to finalize our lynch target for the day. Xarastier's ''love to hear myself talk" vote aside, we have two votes on imran and two votes on CoD, and mine on EM. It sounds like imran and martino at least are buying into my idea of EM as an alternative if CoD is not scum - what does everyone else think? Haven't seen CoD himself post since my last two posts, would be nice to hear your thoughts. -Preston Ps iPad is still awkward to type on.