Canik

The Carrier deal is just for about 1000 jobs so not a huge deal. Plus we aren't sure what we gave to make the deal happen. Probably heavy $$ incentives worked out through Mike Pence like Onbekende suggests. It's a good sign, I like it, but I'll be impressed when hundreds of thousands of jobs are returned to America. Until then I remain a healthy skeptic.

Somewhat related to the whole settlement thing. http://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/21/sen-warren-blasts-mylan-epipen-settlement-as-shamefully-weak-wants-answers.html Mylan settles to the tune of $465 million and was CLEARLY in the wrong yet didn't have to admit wrong-doing because it was a settlement. Just an example of how just because a settlement doesn't make you admit wrong-doing, doesn't mean you didn't do wrong.

No it's working, my internet was just down yesterday.

I didn't know him but he's sounding like a good choice for Secretary of Defense.

No way.. my birthday was Nov. 18th. I celebrated it last night with some deep dish pizza and wine. xD Hope you had a good birthday too Sister Midnight. Indeed it does. Scorpios are awesome.

Mask plz.

Thanks Sister Midnight, that's very nice to hear! I'm quite fond of you and IRON as a whole too. Lots of great and interesting people here. <3 And I look forward to this fantasy thing you speak of, I will keep an eye out for it. If you need to know more about me for it, feel free to PM me. Don't worry, I don't have a wife and won't find it creepy.

Good That's pretty much what I wanted to hear. That you would try to hold your own party to the same standards you hold the other parties to.

I just really, really don't think anyone should place party loyalty over loyalty to truth, justice and America itself. However you are showing some compromise between loyalty to your party and loyalty to truth by admitting you are biased. That's good. Someone who 100% prioritized party loyalty would not admit that. Still not ideal but could be worse. I have known many who refuse to admit they're being biased or extreme (and not just on the right, see some from the left as well)

Pretty sure he settled (it was a long time ago tho, during Nixon Admin) when the Feds (under Nixon, no less) sued him for discriminatory housing policies. He uses the "I never admitted guilt" line there too. Anyway, doesn't really matter. I know lawsuits can be expensive but I really doubt many of these settlements when huge sums are paid to the defendants that they did it despite being 100% innocent and the defendant being a total liar. I mean, c'mon. Is 25$ mil really cheaper than fighting it in court would be? These settlements don't prove their innocence either correct me if I'm wrong so I'm going to assume in most cases they were at least partially guilty. It's common sense IMO. btw, Lysistrata. I really hope you don't try to excuse everything Trump does off-hand and do show a willingness to inspect his actions with a critical mind. We shouldn't always assume he's wrong either, I know. But you just seem so biased and so committed to your party, it's a shame when anyone from either side is that way and IMO is a significant factor in why things are so mucked up right now. I think we need more independents and unbiased opinions. (or less biased, anyway) Plus if he does something clearly wrong we're really going to need support from Republicans to hold him accountable.

Media conspiracy. Trump is a saint he would never scam people or anything like that. [/sarcasm] God I hope he does have a conscience and doesn't scam America too.

I think America never stopped being great but it has, perhaps, lessened in recent years. The reason I believe is because before we were always expanding. In about 200 years we went from the 13 colonies to the leading world super-power. That is a crazy amount of expansion in a relatively short amount of time and with that expansion came a lot of benefits. But finally we expanded as far as we reasonable could and maybe even farther. It's hard to keep so much of the world under our thumb which is why some like Crimea, Georgia, Syria are slipping away from us. Add in us looking toward the future & globalization and trying to push that agenda forward with generous trade agreements and such and it results in America becoming less great than it was for it's citizens. And while it may sound like I/America are being self-centered.. well, we are to an extent. But do you think Russia/China/ISIS won't be? If we leave, someone else will fill the void and chances are they will treat you at least as bad if not worse. Probably worse. Not like the free trade agreements even help the people in 3rd world countries that much, they are treated more or less like slaves. The only people I think benefit much or at all from it are the 1%. There is also a moral question of if we should trade with nations like Saudi Arabia which treat their women like literal pieces of meat and is literally still a Monarchy. Liberals have a really contradicting message there. Are we all about social justice or are we all about respecting other cultures & globalization, because it can't be both. But I digress. Point is, America is having trouble because there are no more frontiers to conquer. Or the ones that are there, it's just taking a very long time and is not easy. Like expanding to Mars. If we could've done that easily, the world would probably doing better as a whole.. but it hasn't been that easy. We've been confined to our little world and stagnating because of it.

So what if it terrorism scares us more? Can a world without much terror and without much pollution not co-exist? We definitely do have to pollute some, sure, but are you saying we shouldn't worry at all about minimizing it? You do believe that pollution is a thing that exists and can happen, right? Yeah that is one of my biggest concerns too. I really hope he doesn't void too many regulations concerning things like environment and consumer protection. I think there is hope he will be reasonable though. He used to be a democrat and can't be a total moron to get where he has. He already seems to be softening a bit on some of the extreme stances he took during the campaign. Like for one, now he says he has great respect for Obama. I don't worry so much about our food supply getting destroyed though. That was predicted before by some scientist back in the day, forget his name, but he couldn't imagine the world supporting the current population we have, not even close.. yet here we are. Humans are very creative and food is very important. Though, if pollution does get too bad and water runs dry, etc.. yeah it might get really bad. I'd prefer to avoid finding out.

I will be glad if the excessive political correctness is toned down tho. I prefer just plain ole' correctness and truth. It was very silly of the more extreme liberals to argue things like "you can't be racist against white people". When in reality, there are a looottt of people in minorities that are racist towards white people. Acting like it doesn't exist just encourages it more. And some people freaking out over people saying #AllLivesMatter. They're still saying ALL lives matter! That includes black people. I know for a fact that some, if not most people, who started saying #AllLivesMatter were totally on board with the anti-policy brutality wagon. We just also wanted to protest the police killings of people like Kelly Thomas as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_Thomas It was really stupid and hurt the anti-police brutality movement IMO. That being said, I also don't like that some actual racist white people will be embolden by Trump's election. If they do anything wrong, I hope they go to jail. Just sayin', there are pros and cons to either candidate. Even in the racism category. Political Correctness was seriously getting so extreme it was becoming detrimental to anti-racism in some ways.

Everyone who thinks this will be a disaster of apocalyptic levels, please try to stay calm. It probably won't be as bad as you think. If you're an American citizen, there is a chance things will get better. There's a chance they get worse too but we won't know for sure until Trump's presidency takes full affect. We're just going to have to wait and see. Truth is, the DNC has lost touch with the common person. They wanted Hillary because that was the plan ever since Obama was elected and worked against Bernie despite him having the momentum behind him. Bernie still may have lost but he was the natural candidate, Hillary was forced upon us. That's why turnout was so low for Hillary. Now the DNC will have to take a good long look in the mirror and that's a good thing.

Looking like he very well might win right now. He's winning all the battleground states so far. At first I thought your sig was a pic you posted after saying "Trump's got this one." might be fitting. xD

Don't really care who wins at this point. I think Hillary is the safer pick. She's predictable. I don't think she'll start WWIII, I think she's more likely to play it safe, try diplomacy. Trump is less predictable IMO. If you want any change at any cost, he's definitely your guy. Who knows what he'll do though. I suspect he may do a lot less than Trump supporters think. Either way, I felt I needed to post this song. Trump supporters should appreciate it. Saints Row IV is a great game too, highly recommend. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UovoVTKzg7M

^ THIS! SO MUCH THIS! None of the candidates are good. We're getting screwed one way or another and it's not easy to say which one will screw us more. Very disappointed in America's democratic process right now and thinking something needs to be fixed because this is seriously a joke.

Well those are some intriguing arguments against Hillary I must admit. (especially the Healthcare Premiums one) I remain dubious however that Trump is really such an outsider and all that. I suspect in 4 to 8 years Michael Moore will probably be making a movie on how bad Trump was.

Yep. I'd disagree with that too and I'm not sure I know any liberal who is really like "we gotta ban guns!!1" I'm sure there are a few but most do not agree with that. Most Liberals don't want full-on Socialism either. We just understand that there are merits to some Leftist ideals. You know that national park Lysis spoke of? That, ironically, would probably not exist if not for Leftist ideals. It would be privately own and exploited for whatever profit can be gained from the land.

^ There is definitely some truth to this statement. And a lot of people do take what Trump says with a grain (or truckload) of salt. Has nothing to do with him not being a politician though. I'd say it's more because he's made his living being a salesman and has been accused quite a few times of misleading customers/investors among other shady business practices. Such as hiring illegals or using illegal Chinese steel for his buildings. When confronted with these things during the debates he didn't deny most of it he simply said "Well I could get away with it so I did it. You should've made it so I couldn't get away with it, Hillary." Which it is a decent counter-argument but it still speaks to his character and as President you can get away with a lot. He also bragged about groping women uninvited because he could get away with it being rich and famous. And that he would go into the women's dressing rooms at beauty pageants because he owned the pageant and used the excuse that he was inspecting it and said, and I quote "I can sort of get away with that kind of stuff" Trump has really shot himself in the foot with all that because those audio/video records, his responses at the debate. Those things are irrefutable because he said it himself on tape and he hasn't claimed it was faked footage. Whereas it is plausible that e-mails leaked about Hillary could have been faked. It's just text and I'm not sure there's a way the authenticity can be verified, especially not for your average person. I'd have to rely on a third party telling me they are authentic and just have faith in them. I really don't like to made decisions based off faith, I like facts. Anyway, due to these facts it is hard to take Trump seriously and to believe he won't be corrupt and isn't doing all this for his own interests. Even taking him seriously I don't care for some of his positions. All that being said, if Hillary's leaked e-mails do show something extremely vile and corrupt. I may consider not voting for her. Though like I said earlier, e-mails are just text, not hard to fake at all. It is somewhat odd too that nothing is being leaked on the GOP side. Surely they have some scandalous things there that could be revealed as well. Lysis and some other Trump supporters might be like "Oh c'mon dude, use common sense. You really think the e-mails might be faked or released by Russia to influence the election?" and I can understand why they might say that but really that seems about as plausible, if not more, than a lot of the conspiracy theories being thrown around by the Alt-R and Trump. You think Sandy Hook could be faked and all that but not some e-mails? Of course some of the e-mails do seem to be real but conspiracy theorist should know best, the best way to spread a lie is to surround it with things that are true. That way people say "well that and that was true, so that other thing must also be true" So I am open to hearing more about e-mails but it will have to be pretty damn convincing and pretty damn evil. Because I am convinced Trump is a fairly large P.O.S. himself and the only reason he hasn't been corrupt in pubic office is simply because he hasn't served in public office yet. Really it's indisputable that he's a fairly large P.O.S. since he's admitted to most of it on video. btw, about Media.. sure CNN and especially MSNBC are liberal and supportive of liberal agendas but I mean, there is Fox News & talk radio which are conservative and support their agenda's. And both sides bend the truth sometimes and have a tendency to gloss over bad things their side has done/is accused of.

You really think the full extent of Trump's immoral behavior is limited to exaggeration? That seems very naive to me. Or disingenuous. You and other excited Trump supports act almost like he's literally the savior of humanity and Hillary is the devil incarnate. Unbiased moderates aren't going to buy that, for the most part. Your argument is weak because it's so obviously biased. What does economics have to do with going from Pro Choice to Pro Life? Pretty sure he has flip-flopped a bit on some issues during this very campaign. (counting from the start of primaries)

I wouldn't be surprised if she tried to limit it to some extent. Although if it's mostly just how semi-autos look as Lysis says then sounds more like a silly annoyance than a huge deal that should be top priority. I would be extremely surprised if she tried to end it or push it so far an uprising might happen. How so? By not being more forceful? It is hard to say how things will work out. None of us have a crystal ball that can reveal the future but it's hard to imagine our chances go DOWN by being more forceful and say, attacking Russia/Iran/China. Whereas Trump ISN'T all about himself? [insert biggest eyeroll ever] Really there is little to no reason to believe Trump is any better. He hasn't served in office but he's shown corruption in other ways. He's also changed positions at times and lied based on what he thinks is best for him at the time.

Thanks, Icewolf. You're right there is no real way to compare it when the other presidency didn't really happen and is pure theory. Even if Hillary doesn't do well, Trump's could have been worse just as easily. If what Lysis what trying to get at though is do I think I can live with my vote, that is a question voters should ask themselves. And my answer is: I believe I am less likely to terribly regret my vote with Hillary. I don't believe she's going to end the 2nd amendment or start WWIII or any of that stuff that the far-right believes she will do. She will just maintain the current status quo, more or less, which isn't perfect but things could be worse.

Well I've finally decided I will support Hillary in the end. As bad as her & the DNC may have been, I have no reason to believe Trump & friends will be any better. Trump has said many times indirectly that he will do whatever he can get away with. That's what he said to Billy Bush. That's what he's said about hiring illegals, outsourcing and buying Chinese steel. And there are many other reasons to believe Trump won't be some pure saint & savior that many far-right Republicans seem to believe he is. So, in terms of corruption I see them fairly equal and for me it comes down to Presidential leadership and issues. Both of which Hillary wins for me. I like her tax plan better, I'll probably like the justices she appoints better. I like her calm demeanor better. Trump saying the elections are rigged and refusing to confirm that he will concede have only pushed me farther into Hillary's camp. I really hope the next Republican nominee is smart enough to take the good parts of Trump's campaign and drop the bad. I came into this election very interested in switching sides if a good Republican candidate was running. Unfortunately I was presented with Trump instead.