I think Martino's suggestion is nice.

Yes the mafia could influence the vote but

having like two votes (lynch and weak doc target)

will give us double the information and more chances

of the mafia to make mistakes.

 

But yes I'm also afraid that the influence of the mafia will

increase as the number of times we mislynch increases.

 

I suggest people who don't post much should be targeted

by the weak doc.

That is my concern with such a system.

But it's still not so bad...at least we can still get info similar to the the lynch info.

 

I still think it would be best to follow my strategy.

It's random enough so that mafia can't target the weak doc.

And the roleblocker would be wasting his 4 attempts randomly.

 

But whatever the majority decides I guess.

 

I'm just thinking of this possibility

If we lynched somebody today and it's a mislynch...

1. A

2. B

3. WEAKDOC

4. D

5. MAFIA

6. MAFIA

7. G

8. H

9. MAFIA

10. J

11. K

12. MAFIA

13. M

14. N

 

Given this setup, the weak doc will obviously target D

and the mafia knows of course that D is townie.

So the mafia will target another player for example

N to make it look like A was a mafia.

 

See what I mean?

Stupid me...

 

Ignore this...

Given this setup, the weak doc will obviously target D

and the mafia knows of course that D is townie.

So the mafia will target another player for example

N to make it look like A was a mafia.

 

Well I guess CD's suggestion is also okay.

The only problem I could see is that

 

1. A

2. B

3. WEAKDOC

4. D

5. MAFIA

6. MAFIA

7. G

8. H

9. MAFIA

10. J

11. K

12. MAFIA

13. M

14. N

 

If the mafia had guessed who the weak doc is,

they could kill him and the suspicion will go to D.

Also, if the setup is this instead

 

1. A

2. B

3. C

4. WEAKDOC

5. MAFIA

6. MAFIA

7. G

8. H

9. GODFATHER

10. J

11. K

12. MAFIA

13. M

14. N

 

the mafia's role blocker could either choose #4 or #11 to roleblock

so they will not be targeted (I assume that the weak doc will not get killed if he was roleblocked)

hey sorry i haven't commented. been busy. (skiing is fun ) i'll get around to it tomorrow most likely.

Stupid me...

 

Ignore this...

 

 

Well I guess CD's suggestion is also okay.

The only problem I could see is that

 

1. A

2. B

3. WEAKDOC

4. D

5. MAFIA

6. MAFIA

7. G

8. H

9. MAFIA

10. J

11. K

12. MAFIA

13. M

14. N

 

If the mafia had guessed who the weak doc is,

they could kill him and the suspicion will go to D.

Also, if the setup is this instead

 

1. A

2. B

3. C

4. WEAKDOC

5. MAFIA

6. MAFIA

7. G

8. H

9. GODFATHER

10. J

11. K

12. MAFIA

13. M

14. N

 

the mafia's role blocker could either choose #4 or #11 to roleblock

so they will not be targeted (I assume that the weak doc will not get killed if he was roleblocked)

 

 

What if the setup looked like this?

Then the roleblocker would be wasting his attempts in blocking the weak doc.

 

1. WEAKDOC

2. A

3. B

4. C

5. MAFIA

6. MAFIA

7. G

8. H

9. GODFATHER

10. J

11. K

12. MAFIA

13. M

14. N

 

The flaw in my plan would be that if the weakdoc happens to protect the godfather...then mafia instantly knows who the weak doc is.

The godfather could chose to be protected by the weakdoc and the weakdoc would live.

 

And I'm not sure about roleblocking...I think the weakdoc would get a message saying he was roleblocked.

Which would also indicate the weak doctor target is mafia.

Been awhile since I seen a roleblocker.

 

Meh...just a suggestion.

 

Perhaps going with the Weak Doc voting system would be best since it would garner additional info.

I can heartily agree with this approach as the weak doc would never be found out this way. I suggest we do this.

 

I am not quite sure why my reasoning doesn't make sense to you. KevinH's original strategy is clearly anti town. Going by our present numbers this is how voting will probably happen:

 

Candidate "A" --> 8 votes

Candidate "B" --> 3 votes

Candidate "C" -->2 votes

Not voting --> 2

 

The weak doc has to be in that 5 not voting with the majority. Suppose you have 2 mafia members voting for "B" and "C", that leaves mafia guessing the weak doc from the remaining 3. And that is just day 1. On day two, the votes are shuffled around, but weak doc again votes with the minority. The mafia can exclude the people that voted with the majority on day 1 and voila...they will most certainly find weak doc at the end of day 2. Weak doc probably won't find anything in this timeframe.

Well, the manner in which he wanted to implement it was not perfect, but he did draw our attention to something we could use to our advantage. Would the mafia really do that?

 

An interesting strategy Martino but one question

 

Why me?

 

I understand I am neutral at this moment

 

Is there any other reason?

It's interesting you're responding like this. If you're town, there is no real reason to question my suggestion of targetting you. In fact, it will semi clear you and keep you alive for the night. If you're mafia however...

Oh yeah, and why Nerau?

Why question my choice of Nerau and not my suggestion of someone who is in the middle of the pack suspicion wise? as that is the reason I gave for suggesting Nerau. I don't want to pick someone high up on the suspicion list, as we could just lynch him instead. We are already suspicious of him, if we think there is a good chance he is mafia, we may as well just lynch him and find out. No need to sacrifice our weak doc on a likely mafia target. Alternatively, if we select the people who are regarded as townies, we will most likely not find any scum at all. So that is why I suggest going for those who we are unsure of. I suggested Nerau in particular cause I have some personal suspicions of him, but nothing large enough to suggest lynching him. Therefore, the weak doc seems like the perfect way to find out about his alignment.

 

 

 

I think Martino's suggestion is nice.

Yes the mafia could influence the vote but

having like two votes (lynch and weak doc target)

will give us double the information and more chances

of the mafia to make mistakes.

 

But yes I'm also afraid that the influence of the mafia will

increase as the number of times we mislynch increases.

 

I suggest people who don't post much should be targeted

by the weak doc.

Well, thinking about it some more, there is only so much the mafia can do. We would give the weak doc a new target every night and, as long as the weak doc lives, we would not lynch anyone he had targetted. In fact, I would suggest that we stay away from lynching anyone he has targetted until the only mafia left is the godfather. At that point those innocent results would beccome useless. So the mafia has to chose, do they try and push for a quick outing of the weak doc while losing someone themselves, or do they try to keep him targetting innocents and provide us more information? Whether we quickly find a scum or we are able to semi clear a couple of people, it is always a win situation for us.

Allright fair enough.

 

So, shall we get the voting on then? WD vote: Nerau

My original initial thought regarding the weak doc was that I didn't want him to get killed and have it be a mystery whom he protected.

 

I like how it has become a way to use him as cop. Maybe I'll switch my strategy to "follow the weak doc."

 

Nerau is fine for me as a target for the weak doc. On day 1, "nobody knows nothin'."

 

We need a contingency, though. What if Nerau himself is the weak doc?

The easiest answer is to have him claim he is not the weak doc.

If he's townie, he has no motivation to lie about it.

If he's scum and says he is the weak doctor, the real weak doctor could counterclaim (assuming we have one).

If he's scum and says he is not the weak doctor, the real weak doctor will die tonight but we can lynch Nerau tomorrow.

 

The downside to this is that if he is the real weak doctor, then claiming it would give the scum the information.

i am not the weak doc

 

@Martino

 

Thank you for clearing up my question

 

I was just confused why i was picked out of the blue

My original initial thought regarding the weak doc was that I didn't want him to get killed and have it be a mystery whom he protected.

 

I like how it has become a way to use him as cop. Maybe I'll switch my strategy to "follow the weak doc."

 

Nerau is fine for me as a target for the weak doc. On day 1, "nobody knows nothin'."

 

We need a contingency, though. What if Nerau himself is the weak doc?

The easiest answer is to have him claim he is not the weak doc.

If he's townie, he has no motivation to lie about it.

If he's scum and says he is the weak doctor, the real weak doctor could counterclaim (assuming we have one).

If he's scum and says he is not the weak doctor, the real weak doctor will die tonight but we can lynch Nerau tomorrow.

 

The downside to this is that if he is the real weak doctor, then claiming it would give the scum the information.

I don't think that is the way to go. It would probably be better to select a back up option. So the weak doc protects Nerau, but if Nerau is the weak doc he protects the back up option.

I think that would be overcomplicating it. Let's just vote for 1 person, and if that person happens to be the weak doc, then he'll just not protect anyone during the night. We still gain information regardless.

 

Yeah, roleclaiming is definately not the way to go.

Correct, then the role blocker will just work the magic of their role and make this entirely useless. I was thinking of maybe the weak doc claiming then the doc protecting the proposed weak doc, but there's that. I believe the best way so far to use the weak doctor was already suggested, target is the lynch vote or we can nudge 'em to pick a target we want.

i am not the weak doc

 

Since the target claimed he's not the weak doc this time, it will work out.

For future days, we shouldn't put the weak doc target in that position.

ccabal86's suggestion works: he doesn't protect but is then cleared as a townie.

I am the weak doc.

If AKC is not the weak doc, the actual weak doc (if any) should role claim, all but ensuring we lynch a mafia member.

 

If no one else steps forward we should obviously look for another lynch candidate.

If AKC is not the weak doc, the actual weak doc (if any) should role claim, all but ensuring we lynch a mafia member.

 

If no one else steps forward we should obviously look for another lynch candidate.

 

I totally agree. Also, if no counterclaim is made, the normal Doc should protect AKC during the night.

I was out/unable to pay much attention to this thread for most of the weekend; looks like a lot has happened in the meantime. I haven't seen a response from Narsis yet about my questions; maybe I'll poke him on skype or something.

 

As for AKC... I'm just a little bit suspicious of this sudden revelation.

How am I supposed to prove my innocence now? Sigh. I'm going to vote: KevinH then.

 

I can promise you that I am a townie. A vanilla townie at that.

I am the weak doc.

 

Granted, I wouldnt have expected him to blurt it out earlier... but it seems a little convenient.

 

If AKC is not the weak doc, the actual weak doc (if any) should role claim, all but ensuring we lynch a mafia member.

 

If no one else steps forward we should obviously look for another lynch candidate.

I totally agree. Also, if no counterclaim is made, the normal Doc should protect AKC during the night.

 

Possibilities:

1) AKC is actually weak doc, in which case lynching him would be a HUGE mistake;

2) AKC is not weak doc, but claiming it to save his skin (?does this normally happen in these games, townies lying to survive another night?);

3) AKC is mafia and claiming weak doc to throw us off and get the weak doc to roleclaim.

 

A little while back we said the weak doc roleclaiming was not the way to go, but now we're being forced into it? Yikes... are we sure that's a good idea?

 

If (1) above, noone else CAN roleclaim - unless mafia fakes it, and we need to be prepared for the chance they will.

If (2) or (3) above, we have to pray that the weak doc is not one of the inactives... assuming there's a weak doc at all.

 

If someone else role claims, we will have to face the question of 'who do we trust' - and that's a huge issue with a lot of guesswork. AKC's already got strikes against him to where the lynch was about to happen, but I dont want to immediately lynch him on the sayso of someone that MIGHT be mafia trying to get the real weak doc killed. I'm not sure how to do a good test of AKC versus a second claimant in this case; it's a chicken-and-egg problem and the logic gets convoluted. Hopefully someone else has a better idea.

 

If no one else roleclaims, AKC will have a target painted on him for the 4-shot roleblocker... but if our real doc follows ccabal's advice (which he should/would have to in case AKC is the real deal), we'd be effectively opening everyone else up to being killed by mafia with greater impunity. With weak doc unknown, we have doc and bulletproof to potentially block mafia kills, or 2/10 chance; with weak doc known and real doc tied up, we only have 1/9 chance of a block.

 

I guess the only thing to do now is wait and see if someone claims. How long do we want to wait to see if someone DOES speak up - especially if it's one of the inactives?

Possibilities:

1) AKC is actually weak doc, in which case lynching him would be a HUGE mistake;

2) AKC is not weak doc, but claiming it to save his skin (?does this normally happen in these games, townies lying to survive another night?);

3) AKC is mafia and claiming weak doc to throw us off and get the weak doc to roleclaim.

 

1 right now is possible

2 yes it is normally done and it relates to more of who trusts who

3 this is very likely and it is a familar tactic to the mafia

 

 

so i would say 1 & 2 are are equal in chance

 

while 3 being a bit higher only b/c of earlier suspisions

 

Tl:dr to early to tell More disscussion and possible counter claims are needed

Well, I for one am not inclined to believe his claim. In fact, I would like to ask the real weak doc to at least temporarily withhold his counterclaim.

 

AKC was the clear front-runner for lynch target. As discussion started to halt, things were looking dark for AKC. Then suddenly AKC claims weak doc. Which is conveniently the most powerful role we most likely have. Perhaps if AKC would have put up some kind of effort to defend himself, I would have given it a second thought. But he simply seemed to give up. I doubt any pro town power role would allow himself to be taken down that easy. In fact, even in his roleclaim post he only posts that he is the weak doc. I can't help but get the feeling that the mafia discussed the situation and decided that the best way to go would be to have AKCPluto roleclaim weak doc, so that they would at least be able to remove that threat from the town.

 

So I suggest that the weak doc does not counterclaim. It would, however, be prudent to leave AKCPluto alive for now. Our real weak doc will die eventually and that will give AKCPluto away. There is always the small chance that AKCPluto is speaking the truth and in that case we should certainly not kill him for the mafia. So, for now, I'd suggest that the real doc does protect AKCPluto. If he is the weak doc, he will target a mafia member eventually and die. Allowing us to kill that mafia member. If he is mafia, the real weak doc will either target a mafia member and die or he will be killed by the mafia. In the first case, we get to kill two mafia members and in the second case we get to kill just AKCPluto.

 

In any case, if AKCPluto is not the weak doc, I think it would be beneficial to keep the identity of the real weak doc hidden. If he is, then we would also ask the normal doc to protect him, so nothing is different there.

 

So while I still suspect that AKCPluto is scum, it doesn't hurt us to leave him alive a little longer.

 

unvote

 

As for the next target, I'm going to search among the people that I associate with AKCPLuto.

 

vote Kasabian

 

There have been a few small things that raised my suspicion. The main thing is his FOS for AKCPluto. A couple of people jumped on the AKCPluto bandwagon first. While Kasabian said he agreed with the reasons and placed a FOS he did not vote. If AKC is scum, kasabian could try to avoid suspicion like that, while keeping the option of lynching someone else open. An advantage here is that I believe that if he does turn out to be scum, it goes a long way towards disproving AKC's claim.

 

Finally, could we get some prods? Some people haven't posted in a week

Alright I apologize for my inconvenience and absence, I was not notified of the game actually starting, just notified of role confirming xD. But whatever the case may be I am at fault and I am sorry about that. Ive just read really quickly the eight pages that have passed and intriguing information all around. As for AKC im in the middle considering this is a new game format to me compared to the last game. So I shall just wait a bit before voting anyone. I am gonna reread the 8 pages once more and then contribute to discussion where ill sound sensible rather then gibberish. If ya follow what i meant in the last sentence if it made any sense at all. Anyhoo Glad to be playing with yas! Sorry for the absence and it wont happen again.

Perhaps the real weak doc should target AKCpluto tonight if he truly is not the real weak doctor, then that would prove it. If AKC is truly the weak doctor then the real doctor could also protect AKC... the problem with that is the doctor being unable to protect townies that are proven to be worth protected due to the additions to the daily conversations they bring instead of risking it to just figure out AKC. Either way, as you said Martino, the weak doc will die soon enough due to hitting mafia.

 

unvote: 19thSpecOps

 

My original reason is void now.

 

I'll be reading through posts before deciding who to vote on next.

Perhaps the real weak doc should target AKCpluto tonight if he truly is not the real weak doctor, then that would prove it. If AKC is truly the weak doctor then the real doctor could also protect AKC... the problem with that is the doctor being unable to protect townies that are proven to be worth protected due to the additions to the daily conversations they bring instead of risking it to just figure out AKC. Either way, as you said Martino, the weak doc will die soon enough due to hitting mafia.

 

unvote: 19thSpecOps

 

My original reason is void now.

 

I'll be reading through posts before deciding who to vote on next.

I would prefer the weak doc to still target Nerau. No need to sacrifice him on AKC. AKC is toast as soon as the weak doc dies anyway, so no need to target him.

What Martino says actually makes a lot of sense, so yeah, the weak doc should not reval himself. The only problem is this, however unlikely: What if we don't have a weak doc after all?

 

Unvote

 

I'm thinking about who to vote for, got a lot on my hands IRL

Rather than lynch a townie....I would want to lynch mafia instead.

 

 

I AM THE WEAK DOC.

 

 

The doc can protect me in the meantime while I am being roleblocked for 4 attempts.

Or maybe we get lucky and AKC is the roleblocker.

 

So please let's lynch AKCPLUTO.

Here is my attempt to leave a clue for the townies...

 

 

Well...nothing really too concreate as this is Day 1.

I probably will change my mind on a few as discussion continues.

It's more of a gut feel than anything else...

 

 

Martino - 1st to actually question KevinH suggestion. 1st to actually suggests that mafia wouldn't give townie cop roles.

(whereas Nerau, AKCPLUTO, and Choashawk merely added side commentry agreeing with KevinH)

 

Kasabian - 2nd to choose the 4-shot roleblocker (which is also my choice but 1st was KevinH)

 

Kaziocore - Fully explained the roles townies were probably given and the suggested mafia roles we should vote on

 

Chaoshawk - Has the same combo of roles that I picked as well (...but I have a hard time reading him so that may change)

 

ccabal86 - FIrst to suggest Bus Driver role is dangerous if we don't have cop roles