1125 replies to this topic

[Yates]

Well I showed you mine Yates, now you show me yours. What are your abilities and descriptions?

I already did.

I'm Imhotep. I was invited to the Count's annual get-together as a guest.

My class is mummy.

Abilites are as follows:
I have seeker scarabs. I can infest a person of my choosing each night and see where they went.
I also have the book of the dead which will allow me to rise from the dead if attacked at night.

You just confirmed that I tracked you to myself. So I have at least proven my role, I think.

[Yates]

How do you propose you prove your role? It seems swingy [as in it can actually hurt Town] and does not fit into a conventional role I'm familiar with. It also seems unprovable, which could make it a really nice fake claim.

[Iron Helix]

Well he didn't kill you and he didn't role block you fwiw.

 

 

Unvote

 

Vote: Imran

[Imran Ehsan]

What a busy day is today

 

 

 

My turn nowww,

 

Others dont post much and have a very good probability of being scum. Theo -> I am not really that convinced about the Dr. Ned claim. As has been pointed out already it is a very uncommon character. maybe he did a quick google search to find out a character who is a doc but fits in with the supernatural/ villanous type character. Ending up with a very less known character. Plus if Lurch was a bodyguard there probably wouldnt be a second doctor in the game.

 

We also need to consider, what will give us the most info from the lynch today. Lynching Yates at this point and finding out he is town really doesnt give us info because his play style has caused most townies to turn against him. Scum will easily blend in there. So we need to lynch one from my above shortlist. I will go with Theo as I feel he has been less than vocal about a scum claim against him and he happened to claim the only role that will probably prevent a counter claim against him.

 

Based on the above

 

Vote: Theophilos

 

 

Suspecting Theo based on the character name is weak. If he is scum he'd claim a more common one(Frankenstein? Mr Hyde?), because there isn't any reason not to

 

And I believe if there is a true doctor(non-Theo) he should comes out now. Having a doctor claims confuses the SK and Mafias on which to kill on the night(for more detailed reasoning, visit Yates' post here, and for today we will surely get a scum(Theo).  And too bad Imran, no doctors have come up till now

 

Yes Imran, I'm accusing you of misleading the town here.

You lurk around and put Yates on L-1 back a few pages earlier but unvoted after Yates claimed that you're super scummy. And yeah starting at that point you become active at posting bluff posts and questions.

 

 

Yates role-claiming tracker didn't prove that he's likely to be townie, he can be a scum tracker, hell his veteranship in mafiascum only makes him more suspicious for me(he managed to reveal a doctor while escaping death), but I agree incase Yates actually turns out to be town it won't give town a lot of informations.

 

Conclusion?

 

VOTE: Imran Ehsan

 

 

 

And yeah EM why didn't you deny that earlier?

 

I have done exactly what I said I will do:

 

Post 309:

 

I think you are accusing Theo and telling us to vote for him without posting any evidence or claim whatsoever. So towards the end of this day if I dont see a role claim for you and a detailed explanation on why you accused Theo of being scum right off the bat, my vote will be on you. However, I am still interested to see if Theo has more counters for your arguments. Based off those I may vote for Theo instead but at the moment you are looking more scummy to me.

 

Yates then went on to say that he didnt actually investigate Theo and was just bluffing. He did role claim or provide any evidence whatsoever. So my vote was for him.

 

Then I unvoted because he was at L-1 and didnt want someone to hammer him before he answered my questions. That was posted here:

 

I actually want to read your responses to the above so I will unvote for now to prevent a hammer vote.

 

Since then he has come out with a full role claim and now is definitely townie as EM has confirmed that he did indeed visit Yates.

 

My original stance has always been if Yates come out with a full claim and explains himself I will not vote for him. I have expressed my concern about Theo's responses as early as 4-5 days ago. Since then Theo has hardly posted or given any significant input whatsoever. I am not voting for him only because of the name claim although thats a part of it. My concern (as shown in my above quote) has always been he has not responded convincingly to a scum accusation against him. Going on a OMGUS right after Yates accused him and since then his only input has been coming up with a very uncommon name for his character.

 

My vote will stand.

[Electric Mango]

I have a hard time believing Theo would role claim doctor if he were scum. Seems like way to big of a risk. Also I like his name claim. It would have been too easy to say Dr Frankenstein, who would have come up with Dr Ned besides Kaziocore?

[Iron Helix]

Ok, just wondering: would EM's night action on Yates do anything to actually improve a tracking action?

 

Also would a role blocker completely stop a night action or just render that night action ineffective?

 

If the former, that would demonstrate Theo is not a role blocker since Yates saw EM visit him at night.  

If the latter, that would open the possibility that Theo role blocked EM (and might explain why Yates' night action was standard).

[Imran Ehsan]

The mod has also not posted the role of the dead. So that makes me think we can deduce a dead persons role/ability from the character he had. Hence I think Lurch had a protective ability and would make no sense for their to be 2 roles with protective abilities. Another point against Theo that I forgot to mention in my earlier post.

[Lyner]

 

Since then he has come out with a full role claim and now is definitely townie as EM has confirmed that he did indeed visit Yates.

 

My original stance has always been if Yates come out with a full claim and explains himself I will not vote for him. I have expressed my concern about Theo's responses as early as 4-5 days ago. Since then Theo has hardly posted or given any significant input whatsoever. I am not voting for him only because of the name claim although thats a part of it. My concern (as shown in my above quote) has always been he has not responded convincingly to a scum accusation against him. Going on a OMGUS right after Yates accused him and since then his only input has been coming up with a very uncommon name for his character.

 

My vote will stand.

 

 

How come Yates is definitely townie yet Theo isn't? Tracker is more uncommon than doctor, trackers would be more likely to be in scum side than doctors. Really the only legit part is that Theo hasn't reacted much.

 

No other doctors have come up till now, and you want to kill our potential doctor by our own?

 

I'm not that familiar with the Lurch but I think he'd suit bodyguard type rather than doctor, having both of them wouldn't overpower town, also what other protective roles can be there? Anyone feeling jailed?

 

 

 

 

 

It would have been too easy to say Dr Frankenstein, who would have come up with Dr Ned besides Kaziocore?

 

Exactly. Especially after that flying spaghetti stuffs.

 

Now who do you think is scum, EM?

 

 

 

Ok, just wondering: would EM's night action on Yates do anything to actually improve a tracking action?

 

Also would a role blocker completely stop a night action or just render that night action ineffective?

 

If the former, that would demonstrate Theo is not a role blocker since Yates saw EM visit him at night.  

If the latter, that would open the possibility that Theo role blocked EM (and might explain why Yates' night action was standard).

 

Can we ask @mod for empower example for every actions? :|

Because the obvious upgrade of normal tracking is block-proof tracking or maybe watcher effect

[Yates]

@Mango - Why did you choose me to empower N1?

@Theo - Who did you protect N1 and why?
 
@Everyone - So these are the claims we have:
 
EM is claiming Empower
Theo is claiming Doctor
 ***
Yates is a Tracker [Town]
Muted Faith [slot] is a Neighborizer [which can be scum or town]
Helix is an Innocent Child [Town]
 
First - Mango's claim:

 

Empower would do nothing for Neighborizer or Innocent Child.  Neutral
Empower could make an SK shoot through protection.  Negative
Empower could make scum shoot through protection.  Negative
Empower could prevent tracker from being redirected.  Positive
Empower could prevent two kills on a single target if performed on a doctor.  Positive though unlikely.
 
Overall, the Empower ability would be a neutral to negative-neutral utility role. 

If real, that means scum have a roleblocker/redirector of some sort.
Mango is not a roleblocker since I received a result.
Mango could still be redirector if he redirected results on himself to Muted Faith who just happened to visit me.  In which case, the MF slot is Town if Mango is scum redirector.

 

I'm also going to note his self-vote at the start of the game as well as his bait post on me so I don't forget to weigh these in to any alignment decision.

 

Theo's claim:

Doctor is a provable role but requires [at least] a save.

Doctor *should be* tonight's NK.  Neither killing faction can afford to risk having their night target not go through.  AND neither killing faction can count on the other killing faction to follow through on this NK because there's always the possibility that faction 1 will gamble and try killing elsewhere in the hopes that killing faction 2 will follow through.  Except killing faction 2 could be thinking the same thing.  Nope.  They both need to target the doc.

We have no way of knowing if Lurch was a BG or not, so that's irrelevant.

My being BP makes Theo's claim slightly less believable.

 

I'm also going to weigh his OMGUS vote, his general lack of activity, and his decision not to unvote on a Townie [possibly using his lack of activity as an excuse] when the info kicked in to over drive today.

 

And just for good measure, Yates' claim:

Tracker is a provable role.

Mango has verified my track which leaves only my alignment marginally in question.

I think Town will see something very specific in my Town claim in 421 that will vet me.  Something I don't think a scum would know to include even if they have fake claims.

I can absorb a shot tonight [if targeted] which would limit Town kills.  If scum, I would want to prove that by no killing tonight and claiming "I told you so!"  tomorrow which in effect does the same thing.

 

I would like to see Mango and Theo explain their night actions. 

 

As for me?  Mango was one of the people I was Town reading early.  I agreed with his 3 scum/1 SK assessment.  I agreed with his day 1 lynch assessment ["Odds prove that d1 lynches lead to town wins. Science beaches."].  He was Towning up the joint and I wanted to think he was Town.  My only concern was his position towards the end of the wagon on a [I assumed based on the green text] Town lynch.  So I wanted to track him to solidify my Town read.  I also wanted to make sure I wasn't being fooled by excellent scum play.  Tracking him back to me and getting neighborized [when I mistakenly thought he was the neighborizer] left me in a scenario where all I had to do was figure out if he was a town neighborizer or a scum neighborizer during the night.  When he voted for me [something I wouldn't expect from someone who thought I was Town enough to neighborize if a Town neighborizer] that set off an alarm.  Then when he claimed he didn't neighborize me that was "proof" he was a scum neighborizer.  So this is the evolution of my read on EM.  Now I'm back to on the fence regarding his claim.  AND, I am having trouble understanding how his claim fits in the game.  Though, I will admit to being snake bitten by setup spec in the past.

[Electric Mango]

To answer a few questions directed at me.

I do not have a read on those guilty but instead have a list of who I believer are town. In no particular order those are, Iron Helix, Yates, Muted Faith, killgor, and myself. I feel like I'm forgetting one more but do not have time to go back thru the posts at the moment.

Yates, I empowered you night 1 because I thought Iron Helix had verified your identity as townie based on his flavor post.

[Yates]

Yates, I empowered you night 1 because I thought Iron Helix had verified your identity as townie based on his flavor post.

I thought the same thing and he thought I was crazy! lol

[Yates]

And because we don't have enough going on right now, I have another idea to propose...

Chances are nearly 100% that not all scum were on the Kevin wagon. We had 5 people that were NOT on the KevinH wagon. 2 of them are now confirmed Town.
Commander Shepard [who was voting Robert]
Muted Faith [who was voting Robert]
Iron Helix [who was voting Theo]
iSoc [who was voting me]
Robert [who was no voting]

If we decide we just want to let night actions sort out the claims, I feel like we have a solid chance at hitting scum in the Robert, iSoc, and Muted Faith pool. If we remove Muted Faith for a second, it looks like a coin flip between iSoc and Robert. BUT - look a little closer. CS was voting Robert and ended up dead [as Robert pointed out himself]. CS was also advocating to lynch less active players, Robert being among them. Towards the end of the day, Robert made an excuse post not to vote for kevin after the bomb claim. And finally, today Robert was one of the first to propose that we didn't know Kevin's alignment. I thought that was strange right out of the gate given the green text flip. So that's why I was curious about Robert and EM's theory. Oh, I guess I should add that Robert is blowing with the Town majority wind today, which always makes me leery.

Also noteworthy that Kevin called Theo and EM [both in question right now] and Lyner scummy. So if Robert is scum with one of those three? A CS NK makes a lot of sense. It would also be interesting if the SK/2nd NK was amongst those three named.

I would obviously be an advocate of a Robert lynch over iSoc based on the information we know. But I have iSoc as suspicious as well, even if it's mostly based on gut due to active lurking. iSoc has been defending the crap out of Theo all day. So I could see an iSoc/Theo team.

[Yates]

And if you're reading the game, Kevin? That up there is why you should always lynch on Day 1.  It informed my night action and could possibly drive today's lynch. 

[iSocialism]

And because we don't have enough going on right now, I have another idea to propose...

Chances are nearly 100% that not all scum were on the Kevin wagon. We had 5 people that were NOT on the KevinH wagon. 2 of them are now confirmed Town.
Commander Shepard [who was voting Robert]
Muted Faith [who was voting Robert]
Iron Helix [who was voting Theo]
iSoc [who was voting me]
Robert [who was no voting]

If we decide we just want to let night actions sort out the claims, I feel like we have a solid chance at hitting scum in the Robert, iSoc, and Muted Faith pool. If we remove Muted Faith for a second, it looks like a coin flip between iSoc and Robert. BUT - look a little closer. CS was voting Robert and ended up dead [as Robert pointed out himself]. CS was also advocating to lynch less active players, Robert being among them. Towards the end of the day, Robert made an excuse post not to vote for kevin after the bomb claim. And finally, today Robert was one of the first to propose that we didn't know Kevin's alignment. I thought that was strange right out of the gate given the green text flip. So that's why I was curious about Robert and EM's theory. Oh, I guess I should add that Robert is blowing with the Town majority wind today, which always makes me leery.

Also noteworthy that Kevin called Theo and EM [both in question right now] and Lyner scummy. So if Robert is scum with one of those three? A CS NK makes a lot of sense. It would also be interesting if the SK/2nd NK was amongst those three named.

I would obviously be an advocate of a Robert lynch over iSoc based on the information we know. But I have iSoc as suspicious as well, even if it's mostly based on gut due to active lurking. iSoc has been defending the crap out of Theo all day. So I could see an iSoc/Theo team.

The reason behind the Theo support is the eagerness, before your claim of you wanting to vote him, which was the same as KevinH. When people are pushing a lynch hard like that it makes me suspicious of them, and if you look back further I change my vote on d1 from KevinH to you after you push eagerly towards kevinH. I'm still on the side of the possibility of Theo being a doctor and not wanting that to broadcast that information, because of the importance of that role.

[Robert2424]

Hey people, still catching up. but my first take on this so far,

 

@Yates, trying to throw poo on me now it seems, after what you've done, I'm surprised your posting as much as I've seen you post.

 

I should have a large post coming after I catch up.

[Robert2424]

Ok, I think I've caught up now.

 

@Yates, simply, how is Theo in question? because of his name seems out of place? I'm not saying if Theo is not the doc, that the doc should come out and rc(That's suicide, and will still hurt the town), but since he hasn't, you pushing him in the spotlight is still not helping the town. Until somebody counters him, I see no reason why we should lynch him. also, Your argument, that people not on Kevin wagon is probable scum is total Cr**. Since Kevin was a townie, people on the wagon I'm more suspicious of. And rightfully so, in my experience, at least one scum is on the first successful wagon. Weather it was successful in lynching a anti, or it ended up killing a town. Heck, Commander Sheperd was voting for me, but hey, he was town. Muted Faith, the guy who naiborised you (I Think, that part is a bit clumsy how you put that out there) who people believe as town also. Iron Helix, innocent child... so you go after the only two left who weren't on the wagon, one who was voting for you (Isoc) and then me, who isn't really for day 1 lynches. The more and more you post, the more I dislike your play style and more I get a leery feeling about you yates. Now, for your RC, witch by the way, confused me for a min there, you a tracker, like I said you'd probably be, but you claimed EM targeted you. Witch I think he said, witch I need to look back still and see if you stated that after he said that.

 

you all play a very interesting way of mafia, I'll admit that. Qwite difffernt then where I normally play mafia. I'm seeing new stuff allot here.

 

I'm not sure what to make of EM at this point. Gots my mind in a knot. Empowering, I've heard of it, but never see It in action.

 

I'll try to keep this not to long as it is a double post. (I think, unless I get sniped), I'll post my suspicion list later, but right now, I'll say Yates is still on there.

[Kaziocore]

Votecount 2.10

Chaplain of death (0) -
Electric Mango (0) -
Imran Ehsan (2) - Lyner, Iron Helix
Iron Helix (0) -
iSocialism (0) -
killgor (0) -
Lyner (0) -
Montosh (0) -
Robert2424 (0) -
Theophilos (1) - Imran Ehsan
Yates (2) - Theophilos, Electric Mango

Not Voting (6) - Chaplain of death, iSocialism, killgor, Montosh, Robert2424, Yates

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Imran Ehsan and Yates are the current wagon leaders at L-4
Deadline is Monday, December 16th, 2013 @ 12:45 EDT

Montosh replaces MutedFaith
Deadline is still on the 16th of December

[Montosh]

Hey guys. I'm gonna try to catch up quickly and make some posts by tomorrow.

[Yates]

@Yates, simply, how is Theo in question?

1. There wasn't a save last night.
2. He responded poorly to pressure.
3. For some - not me - the name claim is out of balance
4. Setup spec. I'm BP and therefore do not need a doc. If Lurch was a BG [guess by someone], that would be another protective role. So doc seems like overkill.

Until somebody counters him, I see no reason why we should lynch him.

I don't even think we need a counter. Night actions should resolve his role. I'm one of the people opposed to a Theo lynch.

also, Your argument, that people not on Kevin wagon is probable scum is total Cr**. Since Kevin was a townie, people on the wagon I'm more suspicious of. And rightfully so, in my experience, at least one scum is on the first successful wagon.

Obviously there was scum on the wagon. But let me ask you this; in your experience, how often is the entire scum team on a mislynch on Day 1? Since two of the 5 people OFF the wagon are mod confirmed Town, I think it's safe to assume that at least ONE of the remaining three is scum. In a vacuum, one out of 3 is statistically much more advantageous than 1 out of 7 [since we can't ASSUME two scum on OR off the wagon]. We also have claims from 3 people on the wagon; one of which is proven [mine], one which can be proven [theo], and one that can't be proven unless a very specific situation occurs [EM].

Heck, Commander Sheperd was voting for me, but hey, he was town.

And he ended up dead. See how that looks bad for you?

...so you go after the only two left who weren't on the wagon, one who was voting for you (Isoc) and then me, who isn't really for day 1 lynches.

Yes. Because - see point above about not all scum being on the wagon.

The more and more you post, the more I dislike your play style and more I get a leery feeling about you yates. Now, for your RC, witch by the way, confused me for a min there, you a tracker, like I said you'd probably be, but you claimed EM targeted you. Witch I think he said, witch I need to look back still and see if you stated that after he said that.

I know I came in to this day phase like a lunatic. It got people unsettled and out of their comfort zones. It sparked heated exchanges and role claims. In the end, we now have a LOT of information. While I may have gone a *smidge* over the top compared to what you are used to in here, at least it wasn't boring. And yes, EM confirmed my track on him to myself. I will admit that the foul up with the neighborizer thing wasn't exactly one of my shining moments as a mafia player. However, Montosh should be able to verify that he neighborized me in his next post and that there are no posts [other than from mod] in our QT.

[Robert2424]

Yates, I'm still trying to figure out a reason not to vote for you. Sure you make activity, and got us info. But really, your only GAINING INFO ON TOWN. MEANING THE ANTI TOWN ARE GETTING AN ADVANTAGE ON HOW YOU PLAY. Anti town must be in love with you right now. You've most likely outed our doc (as I don't see how he's not at this point). Then somehow got EM to claim also, although I don't see it entirely necessary for him to do so. Right now you are gunning for the people who haven't liked you much from day 1. why you caving to pressure in such a way? Maybe you should take a step back and take a look on how your making yourself look. If anybody else comes across as anti Yates you gonna start making a case against them? Your pretty much OMGUSing now.

 

To answer your q, although right now, I don't see why I should even give you the pleasure of acknowledging you other then a big fat vote on you. Yes, there were times were not all of the anti were on the wagon. Although, there are times, where all anti were on also. But majority of the time, there been at least 1 anti on the wagon. I can't recall a time there hasn't been one.

 

Also, why you assuming there only 3 scum? How would you know that Info if it were to a be true?