194 replies to this topic

[Rafay]

My dad says that there are only 2 type of people in this world; good and bad.

 

Good people are kind, polite and respectful towards fellow men and well bad people are assholes.

 

I blame both groups here, however more blame falls on the the murderers but the press doesn't get to walk free either.

 

Tormenting others emotionally and mentally is no freedom of expression, neither is taking a life to avenge verbal humiliation just. The people killed had families and my prayers go out to them. May God watch upon them in this hour of devastation and grief that has befallen unto them.

 

But killing people is not the answer and I fully support the French govt.s' attempt to bring the murderers to justice. I hope they are caught and get to face the music for their heinous actions against humanity.

 

Yggdrazil; you've quoted 7 people, none of whom are a proper Muslim authority followed by millions. They're all stupid venom spewers who spin a web of lies to gain fame.

 

Triple Treat and Lysis; I'm deeply hurt that you feel that way, but you are wrong. The action's of few cannot speak for billions. I have a Christian friend and I go to his house for Christmas, that's how societies progress by understanding and respecting one another's beliefs and not making fun of them.

 

I think Shah has quite fairly represented the thinking of true Muslims everywhere. Remember guys we all are humans first then followers of religion, try to look at everyone as a human being next time......everyone.

 

May God bless you all. Amen.

[Shahenshah]

After seeing what the Prophet Mohammad 's followers do to people , I have come to the conclusion that he is not the kind of god that I want . I will stick to the GOD that I have.

It used to be that those that died for freedom, died on the battlefield. It seems the battlefield has been brought to them. These French victims are no different. God rest their souls. Let us honor them in the name of freedom.

3T

Prophet wasnt a god nor claimed to be one, you need a lesson in history boy.

Since you are all here generalising.

Bush waged war on Iraq on false premise, then claimed it was a crusade and then said he was guided by God..entire country ruined, thousands upon thousands, that destruction has no equivalent to any violent act in modern history. There you go, religious war, let's talk about Ideologies, you waged war on Vietnam on ideological basis, again it based on a fabricated CB, entire country burned, maimed, thousands if not millions dead. You have audacity to preach freedom to rest of the world? Want to talk about countless ruthless dictators you installed in middle east and South America? How many killed? Do you want to know? Why don't you Google and share the links with us. A nation living under apartheid is sanctioned because it applies to International Criminal court, what justice do you speak of? Each and every netizen spied upon, where is the so called personal liberty you impose through B-52s? Ousting a democratically elected Iranian government so you can leech cheap oil, where is the democracy you preach from ivory tower? Shell paid over billion in oil spills in gulf of mexico...they paid what..85 million for spills in Africa...what justice? Do you want to talk about colonialism? The greatest instrument of mass exploitation in modern history? Then you come here and claim you're winged angels descended from heavens who have done no wrong? LOL. Oh, the icing on the cake is all these jihadists were propped up by CIA to fight Soviet Union, did you forget that already..it's just 20-30 year old history.

What do you know about terrorism that you and Lys dare bundle me with the lunatics and mass murderers in AQ and IS? You see it on TV and light some candles? I fucking had 3 near misses with my life with 3 terrorist attacks, we've lost over 50,000 people in war against terror, I've seen the destruction first hand and I am lucky to be alive, dont lecture me boy with your selective copy paste context-less pseudo-history. Do you even know what's the system on Hadith, of the link you shared? Do you know how the system of chain verification works? I mean you dont even know the Prophet never claimed to be god, I doubt you know how that system even works, you and I arent even qualified to verify it's authenticity, you'd have to have full knowledge of chains of narration, over 20,000, memorised, with mastry of ancient Arabic and decades of learning and qualification, those are the requirements to preach. Tho, I'll give you that every unedecuated tom dick and harry on every corner is now preaching and spreading anarchy in our society and all kinds of stuff gets online and people take it for granted, there is a system in place, but due to poor governance in much of the developing countries, that is not enforced, every tom dick and harry Mullah issues a fatwa now, I would'nt pee on these guys and they're the reason why there is this situation, so yes, that is entirely the internal weakness and poor governance on part of Muslim regimes, which are more often than not, corrupt, undemocratic, here for just minting money.

You are beginning to bore me with your rhetorical questions. Muhammad said in many places that he has been "ordered by Allah to fight men until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger." The way people followed Muhammad and his teachings made Muslims nearly treat him like a god since he was the messenger of God. Muhammad inspired his followers to wage war with the basest of motives. He beheaded captives, enslaved children and raped women captured in battle. If you want defend this malarkey, go ahead. You will be no different from the average confused Muslim who praises Muhammed for "peacefully spreading Allah's message" Go read the Quran and learn something first before you defend evil...boy.

Let me first school you on some things [boy] so that you don't spread your ideology, or lack thereof, to the newer generations. Beginning with Roosevelt's "Lend Lease" program, the U.S.A. became a superpower by becoming the world's number one purveyor or arms and military weaponry. We backed every evil but wealthy murderous despot and backed every coup in order to maintain a steady 3 shift manufacturing schedule at General Dynamics, Martin Marietta, Texas Intruments. Lockheed Skunkworks, Honeywell, Rockwell, Pantex, and a thousand other U.S. Corporations thriving on death and misery. The end of the cold war drastically reduced justification and Irangate opened awareness to our secret governments 'under the radar', 'backdoor' weapons dealing. We NEED war. We THRIVE on war. Our strength comes from supplying wars without direct involvement. This is the true purpose and mission of the CIA and other less well know US Intelligence communuity contributors. Now that we are buckling from debt... a massive war is in the making. This is nothing new, ALL nations have done this.

All nations have had religious conflicts since the dawn of time, and it is nothing new today. Take a look at China, one of the oldest establishments of time -- China boasts of a rich cultural history, but religion was a huge factor as with all great nations. Depriving its people of religion isn't just a personal loss for them, nations without religion have no moral base and are doomed to mediocrity. Again, learn your history!

Evil deeds done in hooded darkness, will come to the laser guided light. If you are a supporter of the ISIS group you should die along with them. Not to mention that I've heard smarter things from a schizophrenic with Tourette's.

3T

Yes, every ISIS supporter needs to die, the part I'll agree with. Rest of your post is more about my evil > your evil.

Nope, the rest of my post was countering your fallacious tableau of the U.S. government and its role in the Middle East. If we are to compare whose evil is the worst, I'd have to hand it to you along with your anti-West rants.

3T

Anti intervention rants for resources, and ideologies sugarcoated with freedom democracy etc, not west, its people, culture or vast array of other humanatrian policies. Thought I'll clarify it so I am notndoing what I was arguing against.

Yzz, I can quote countless other more authorattive figures from past and recent times saying opposite. Similarly I can also quote 7 people from past and present on your side spewing hate and venom.

Edited by Shahenshah, 08 January 2015 - 11:29 AM.

[Imran Ehsan]

Its funny to see the racists, xenophobes and zionists jump out of the woodwork. Where was your outrage when Israel systematically destroyed a whole city full of civilians and children a few months ago?

[DeathMerchant]

Reporters always suck at identifying weapons. I also face palmed when I read "Kalashnikov Sub machine guns." Whatever the hell that is. (AK-74U is a Carbine).

Indeed the Aks-74u is a carbine. However, it inadvertently tends to be labelled as a submachine gun. Same thing with the Car-15/Colt Commando, which is a rifle but everyone thinks its a submachine gun.

 

 

Its funny to see the racists, xenophobes and zionists jump out of the woodwork. Where was your outrage when Israel systematically destroyed a whole city full of civilians and children a few months ago?

From what I understand, the IDF and Israeli intelligence services did their best to warn Palestinians prior to being attacked. Calling cell phones or texting warnings, sending messages to home owners or aparement building residents giving them enough time to vacate. If anything, what happened last year was probably the kindest war Israel has ever fought since they put such a huge effort into trying to protect civilians. Which also led to reduced effectiveness of strikes since Hamas was now tipped off to where and what sites were going to get bombed. Rather difficult to conduct military operations when your oppenent intentionally hides amongst civilians.

 

Successful counter insurgency is incredibly hard to achieve. Recent history only has a small handful of counter insurgency operations that achieved their goals.

[Imran Ehsan]

 

Reporters always suck at identifying weapons. I also face palmed when I read "Kalashnikov Sub machine guns." Whatever the hell that is. (AK-74U is a Carbine).

Indeed the Aks-74u is a carbine. However, it inadvertently tends to be labelled as a submachine gun. Same thing with the Car-15/Colt Commando, which is a rifle but everyone thinks its a submachine gun.

 

 

Its funny to see the racists, xenophobes and zionists jump out of the woodwork. Where was your outrage when Israel systematically destroyed a whole city full of civilians and children a few months ago?

From what I understand, the IDF and Israeli intelligence services did their best to warn Palestinians prior to being attacked. Calling cell phones or texting warnings, sending messages to home owners or aparement building residents giving them enough time to vacate. If anything, what happened last year was probably the kindest war Israel has ever fought since they put such a huge effort into trying to protect civilians. Which also led to reduced effectiveness of strikes since Hamas was now tipped off to where and what sites were going to get bombed. Rather difficult to conduct military operations when your oppenent intentionally hides amongst civilians.

 

Successful counter insurgency is incredibly hard to achieve. Recent history only has a small handful of counter insurgency operations that achieved their goals.

 

 

Over 2000 civilians killed including 513 children.  If you call that a kind war, you need to re-examine your values.

[DeathMerchant]

 

 

Reporters always suck at identifying weapons. I also face palmed when I read "Kalashnikov Sub machine guns." Whatever the hell that is. (AK-74U is a Carbine).

Indeed the Aks-74u is a carbine. However, it inadvertently tends to be labelled as a submachine gun. Same thing with the Car-15/Colt Commando, which is a rifle but everyone thinks its a submachine gun.

 

 

Its funny to see the racists, xenophobes and zionists jump out of the woodwork. Where was your outrage when Israel systematically destroyed a whole city full of civilians and children a few months ago?

From what I understand, the IDF and Israeli intelligence services did their best to warn Palestinians prior to being attacked. Calling cell phones or texting warnings, sending messages to home owners or aparement building residents giving them enough time to vacate. If anything, what happened last year was probably the kindest war Israel has ever fought since they put such a huge effort into trying to protect civilians. Which also led to reduced effectiveness of strikes since Hamas was now tipped off to where and what sites were going to get bombed. Rather difficult to conduct military operations when your oppenent intentionally hides amongst civilians.

 

Successful counter insurgency is incredibly hard to achieve. Recent history only has a small handful of counter insurgency operations that achieved their goals.

 

 

Over 2000 civilians killed including 513 children.  If you call that a kind war, you need to re-examine your values.

 

The reasoning behind me saying 'kind' is because the effort that went into warning civivlians prior to strikes. Its not the IDF's fault if they warn innocents prior to an attack happening the next day, and Hamas keeps the civilians inside the known targeted buildings.

 

Yes you can argue the civilian death number was higher than the average Israeli/Palestinian war, but Isreal seemed to go out of its way attempting to minimize civilian deaths.

 

I am also not interested in making this personal so I'm letting that comment about my values slide.

[Imran Ehsan]

Yeah well known targets. I guess UN buildings sheltering children are havens for terrorists.

 

Anyway, pardon me if I dont give a shit if some lunatic fanatic somewhere kills a few xenphobic and racist cartoonists.

[ccabal86]

What exactly made them xenophobic and racist? As far as I'm aware, they made plenty of fun of french politicians and celebrities.

 

Once again, I fully agree with Salman Rushdie:

 

 

Religion, a medieval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry becomes a real threat to our freedoms. This religious totalitarianism has caused a deadly mutation in the heart of Islam and we see the tragic consequences in Paris today.

I stand with Charlie Hebdo, as we all must, to defend the art of satire, which has always been a force for liberty and against tyranny, dishonesty and stupidity.

‘Respect for religion’ has become a code phrase meaning ‘fear of religion’. Religions, like all other ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect.

[onbekende]

Islam having its Medieval Time, lets wait a tad and hope the Enlightment hits them fast (and gets us to the stars? )

[Third King]

Holy shit

 

this thread blew up

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pun intended.

[Shahenshah]

Lol, I had the exact same thought of quoting samus with the pun joke, got distracted probably.

[Shahenshah]

What exactly made them xenophobic and racist? As far as I'm aware, they made plenty of fun of french politicians and celebrities.

Once again, I fully agree with Salman Rushdie:

Religion, a medieval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry becomes a real threat to our freedoms. This religious totalitarianism has caused a deadly mutation in the heart of Islam and we see the tragic consequences in Paris today.
I stand with Charlie Hebdo, as we all must, to defend the art of satire, which has always been a force for liberty and against tyranny, dishonesty and stupidity.
‘Respect for religion’ has become a code phrase meaning ‘fear of religion’. Religions, like all other ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect.

Charlie fired one of his star cartoonist named Sine because of false allegations of him being anti-semite.

Smells like double standards and selective freedom of speech. Satire against Muslims is freedom of speech, but against Zionists, its racism. :-)

While the man had his tinge of bias and exercised selective freedom of speech himself, what happened is absolutely undeserved and unacceptable, you simply don't kill someone for opinions, how much ever skewed they are.

Edited by Shahenshah, 08 January 2015 - 05:55 PM.

[Khandov]

Islam having its Medieval Time, lets wait a tad and hope the Enlightment hits them fast (and gets us to the stars? )

It already did. In times of Crusades, the islamic world and their science especially, experienced its golden age. The Arabs made great contributions to scientific method (google Ibn al-Haytham) and while Europe was in Renaissance(Or enlightnement?), Islamic science started to stagnate.

 

Also, I look forward to see/be redirected towards solutions that might solve/ease up the clear mess the West Europe brought onto itself.

[Third King]

Lol, I had the exact same thought of quoting samus with the pun joke, got distracted probably.

 

I couldn't resist

[Rafay]

 

What exactly made them xenophobic and racist? As far as I'm aware, they made plenty of fun of french politicians and celebrities.

 

Once again, I fully agree with Salman Rushdie:

 

 

Religion, a medieval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry becomes a real threat to our freedoms. This religious totalitarianism has caused a deadly mutation in the heart of Islam and we see the tragic consequences in Paris today.

I stand with Charlie Hebdo, as we all must, to defend the art of satire, which has always been a force for liberty and against tyranny, dishonesty and stupidity.

‘Respect for religion’ has become a code phrase meaning ‘fear of religion’. Religions, like all other ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect.

 

 

Nope. Respect is respect and fear is fear. Can't really mix the 2 of them.....

 

I like satire myself but there is a line between fun and causing hurt to someone not just physical but mental and emotional too......that if I'm not wrong is the legal definition of hurt.

 

The thing is guys that all our hands are smeared in blood. No one can label anyone a genocidal maniac...... Judaism has Israeli ultra-nationalists, Christianity Hitler and Islam has ISIS/AQ/TT. 

[Rafay]

The only sensible thing right now is to separate the good from bad.

 

We need to truly know who are the good guys that don't want confrontations or wars and will let ppl live their lives which ever way they want and the baddies who are hurtful and disrespectful towards fellow humans. These ppl should be shunned and socially boycotted by everyone.

[Khandov]

 

 

What exactly made them xenophobic and racist? As far as I'm aware, they made plenty of fun of french politicians and celebrities.

 

Once again, I fully agree with Salman Rushdie:

 

 

Religion, a medieval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry becomes a real threat to our freedoms. This religious totalitarianism has caused a deadly mutation in the heart of Islam and we see the tragic consequences in Paris today.

I stand with Charlie Hebdo, as we all must, to defend the art of satire, which has always been a force for liberty and against tyranny, dishonesty and stupidity.

‘Respect for religion’ has become a code phrase meaning ‘fear of religion’. Religions, like all other ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect.

 

 

Nope. Respect is respect and fear is fear. Can't really mix the 2 of them.....

 

I like satire myself but there is a line between fun and causing hurt to someone not just physical but mental and emotional too......that if I'm not wrong is the legal definition of hurt.

 

The thing is guys that all our hands are smeared in blood. No one can label anyone a genocidal maniac...... Judaism has Israeli ultra-nationalists, Christianity Hitler and Islam has ISIS/AQ/TT. 

 

"Chrstianity had Hitler" // Garbage. Hitler was ruthlessly anti-clerical and concidered christianity a jew's work, aimed at destroying "German spirit". He looked forward to eradicate Christianity, alebit after the war. Goebbels was running wide-scale smear campaigns at the clergy as soon as before the war.

[Lysistrata]

Okay I have returned. I had to get away from this for a while and got some shut eye. Hi Foxy, I'll try to respond to that whole understanding Islam thing. I understand Islam more than most American middle-aged men that grew up in Christian schools and flipped Agnostic before I was in my twenties. My family was never big on church, weddings and funerals was about it. We did have a great time on Christmas and Easter, but we didn't lead our lives for Christ.

 

I kind of take life as it comes and my priority is to do what I want with the time I've got. I see life like a TV series. Everyone gets to live out an episode, but no one gets to see the whole series. I hate when that happens, but it is what it is.

 

When 9/11 happened I did not run to my computer and fill my brain full of understanding of Islam. I have no desire to understand islam, nor am I required to have an understanding of Islam to know enough about why it happened. I have no problem with religion. I have every problem with terrorism. It's awful that so many people have to die in order to stop it, but if they won't stop it on their own, we will have to stop them the other way. My opinion is, let's get it over with. They can do their worst, and we will do ours. People who kill people because they breathe air should die quick, and pity anyone that stands near them, because we will not.

 

As far as Israel goes. I can't imagine why they want to stay there. I would offer them Vermont... they can have the whole useless state. But if they don't want to leave we have to protect them, because we told them we would. They have every right to protect themselves any way they see fit, and we need to give them everything they need to do it. Leave them alone, and just think of them as Americans over there. If not, well don't complain about the casualty imbalance. We tend to kick ass when we have to.

[Shahenshah]

We need to put all the idiots in The Last Republic AA and DoW.

[Lysistrata]

If Shah and I were put in charge I'm absolutely sure we could work it all out.

I would offer respect and support, and he could offer life without fear.

Peace breaks out all over the world.