I agree, we have 3 days left, no more time for changing target. It's either Shah or Avater today. Both are active on forums but didn't post enough.

 

We need discussion

 

Vote: Shah

Shahenshah has unfortunately resigned from the game due to some RL stuff. He is being replaced by Canik from FTW effective immediately. For those of you who have voted for Shah, please let me know whether you wish to keep your vote.

 

Vote Count

Shahenshah Canik (3): Imran Ehsan, Ali bin Turban, Lyner

Imran Ehsan (2): Shahenshah, Finster Baby

Kaziocore (2): Roquentin, KevinH

Ali bin Turban (0):

Avater (0):

Chaplain of Death (0):

d3mon (0):

Finster Baby (0):

iSocialism (0):

KevinH (0):

King Hitler (0):

Lyner (0):

Mandarijn (0):

Rafay (0):

Rhizoctonia (0):
Robert2424 (0):

Roquentin (0):
TheDoom (0):

No Lynch (0):

Not voting: Avater, Chaplain of Death, d3mon, iSocialism, Kaziocore, King Hitler, Mandarijn, Rafay, Rhizoctonia, Robert2424, TheDoom

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch or 5 at deadline.

Deadline is Friday, May 6th, at 9:00am CN Server Time (CST).

 

 

 

Wait did you count all the posts manually in the past, Kevin? efforts o_O

 

I hate to admit it, but yes, I scrolled through the thread making a tally mark for each post.

 

Somehow I'm not buyin that.

Now that I've read some...

 

Imran you have me very much suspecting you. You go from lynching someone day 1 to no lynch, you make accusations on people based on previous/other mafia games.

 

Seems rather scummy to me.

 

VOTE: Imran Eshan

 

You people are coming one by one to take a hit at Imran. I'm got worried that I've missed something so I went again, from the beginning.

 

Finster you're repeating Avater's, Rhizo's and Shah's argument about D1 lynching. Why is D1 having so much importance to you?

 

Still you're right about talking about previous mafia games. Here's the list of post I've found:

#137 - Samus - mentioning previous games

#141 - iSoc - mentioning previous games

#256 - Imran - though he's mentioning previous games it's not actually and accusation but a cheapshot (which I hated and it was the cause of my rant some posts later when subject of previous games returned).

#279 - Shah - mentioning previous games (by referring to Samus)

#286 - Imran - mentioning previous games

#287 - Shah - mentioning previous games as a retaliation to Imran's post so it can't be counted against him.

 

But that's not enough to make Imran a scum. I won't say he's townie for sure, but now that I went through the whole topic again there are some details that may suggest that.

 

Why do I think so? Because he's natural, arrogant at times...he's not restraining himself or trying to pose as someone he's not. Maybe he's a good actor, or maybe he's just being himself because he's nothing to fear. 

- He didn't bother to go with the flow when people mass voted "no lynch" on D1.

- post #225 - a little bit of mockery and no fake sadness after Samus death.

- His general behavior and activity putting him into a spotlight.

 

Maybe Imran's a scum, maybe he's not, but at this point in my eyes he's doing town's job, because he's sparking activity. He's not latching into someone's else opinions, he's provoking discussions on his own.

 

 

 

Now moving onto other players, what I don't like is:

1. Avater's backing out of accusation. Might be a rookie scum, might be a rookie townie, but is suspicious none the less.

2. Avater, Rhizo, Shah jumping at Imran with the same arguments again and again.

3. Shah's lies (I've mentioned it already in the previous posts) and the fact he disappeared when called on them while still being active on the forums

 

more things I don't like:

4. Shah disappears, Finster appears and he's not concerned with other issues here. He's gunning straight at Imran with the same arguments as the rest.

5. I wouldn't notice that and give it no weight, but now post #226 by Finster looks like he's trying to much to look sad.

6. Finster and Shah tend to give a lot of meaning to D1 actions...so here you go, a cherry on top: post #55

 

It's all, how would you call it...a circumstantial evidence and I might be wrong...though I could cite Shah here, from his post #279 when he was lying about me:

 

"Those saying there isn't enough info, this is exactly the kind of quality of info available early on, sorry but no one is going to come out and blurt it out and lay it down for everyone."

 

Anyway I hope to see what the rest of you think about it. So far, because Shah run away when challenged about his lies:

 

Unvote

 

Vote: Shahenshah

 

Maybe that will encourage him to come back and talk with us.

 

 

This is where my issue comes into place. There is no hard evidence Imran is scum, just behaviors that make you feel that it seems that way. Maybe since I'm new and havent learned his personality and attitude yet it just comes off as scum, but bringing up the point of him disagreeing with people constantly and sparking activity isn't something I thought of. I don't see how a scum would argue with everyone as it basically is just putting a huge target on his back because people will have some disagreement with him and choose to get rid of him. If that makes any sense. While I have my suspicions, Imran is looking more and more townie as this goes on. I would've voted Shah but since RL issues, explains his absence.

 

At this point, I don't see enough evidence towards anyone active that would incite me to lynch. 

but bringing up the point of him disagreeing with people constantly and sparking activity isn't something I thought of. I don't see how a scum would argue with everyone

 

"Disagreeing with everyone", "arguing with everyone"

 

Strong words.

 

OK. Lets look at these.

 

Day 1: My stance has always been no lynch is a bad move for the town. I say so and explain clearly my reasons in post 147

 

We need to get lynching fast so we have bandwagons to analyze in later days. No lynching strategy is over reliant on the cop with all other townies sitting around sucking their thumb and hope that someone finds something useful at night. I like a more pro-active approach.

 I also shoot down ABT's strategy in Post 162

 

Day 2 starts. I get voted on by you immediately. Followed by bandwagon vote by Avater. So  with 2 votes on me already with flimsly reasons of "gut feeling" and "I agree with him"

 

Me:

 

 

 

 

D1 was all fluff posts. But you are quick to jump on the bandwagon.

 

Noob scum detected.

 

Vote: Avater

 

Avater backs out after being questioned by ABT

 

 

i voted Imran just for fun

 

My reply

 

Fun votes ended on Day 1. Any votes and accusations from D2 onwards will be taken seriously and it will be assumed you are bandwagoning if you provide no valid reason.

 

Yeah i disagree that Day 2 votes should not be fun votes. Voting without valid reasons are also bandwagoning. Thats the way I look at it. But I guess its called arguing.

 

Rhizo responds to my post:

 

Seriously? I'll make sure to take note of every time you throw out baseless accusations or votes with no valid reason. So far you had D1, basing it off posts, and now D2 2 people "Bandwagoning."

 

Yeah. I started arguing and disagreeing with ppl.

 

Later on he posts:

 

 

Imran calling out people for baseless accusations, when this is the individual who pushes for a lynch on D1 always. Imran has no problem lynching someone with zero to no information to go on, yet calls out others when they do the same. Sorry, that doesn't float in my boat. If you're going to be cool with lynching someone with no information to go on, don't call out or get mad when your the target.

 

Yeah. Nice spinning there from Rhizo. Except I had already addressed this is my post 162: (link provided above)

 

 

Now, to come back to strategy that should be used on D1, I agree that actives should not be lynched. Inactives should also not be lynched, because they may be replaced if they are too inactive. So who gets the chop..the lurkers. These are the people who are not inactive but also are not posting much. It becomes extremely hard to get a read on who may be scum on later days when players dont post and there is nothing to be analysed. So lets put [ressure on the lurkers in terms of votes until they start posting more and when they do, move on to the next one.

 

And then Shah comes out vague and completely confusing good cop bad cop strategies and some other stuff that makes no sense at all. And followed by a vote.

 

So of course I responded to that.

 

But I guess in this game responding to accusations is called arguing with everyone.

 

Fine. I will lurk like the majority are already doing and say "yes sir. thank you sir for voting me. You are so kind".

 

I have played in a lot of games when the game died because of inactivity. Take a look at the Mafia records game. And its no fn. So I suggest to you all to make it fun if you can. Because i wont be putting in the effort anymore.

Kaziocore is the best choice due to inactivity.

Sorry. This is the last one I promise.

 

Hi Imran, 

 

I resigned about 24 hrs ago, not just from mafia, but pretty much CN, I'll be more or less having my nation parked at IRON AA and do currently minimum required if needed for war/tech etc, I'm actually burned out from a lot of things including CN and taking a step back to rejuvenate with changing RL priorities. I'll pop in from time to time here and there, casual parts of the forums. 

 

I'll make one last post.

 

- I did not refer just to D1 posts, I referred to D1 and D2 posts, contrary to what AbT has been misinforming and building on Imran's stories, a coordinated attempt at discrediting. 

- When I suggested that cops can investigate Imran or AbT, Lyner initially comes out and says cops should be free to do whatever they want, fair enough. But then, he goes on to lie that I've been spamming same as other game but my post count posted just recently proves otherwise, so I was a bit confused as to why he was lying, I was planning on getting back to that in details. Then he just comes and puts a vote on me, pretty much confirms he's allied to Imran and AbT. I'd ask cops to investigate him too now, so one of the three, cops should pick any one, dont say who, so they cant track you. If one of them is a scum, the other two are scum too. 

- If & when I get lynched, you will know who I am, you will know I am a townie. Do not forget, no matter whatever deflections they throw, believe me, they're all intelligent guys, they'll come with with a lot of reasons, a good scum is a scum who'll sell you poison during daylight and charge you premium for it, they're good scum. Do not forget! They'll cook some nice justification, do not hesitate, lynch them in this order:

1. Imran

2. Lyner

3. AbT, AbT third because Lyner is more xp'd, so longer he's alive, the more danger to town.

 

With that said, my watch ends. Over to Canik. 

I would say we just lynch one of the less active guys, like Roq, Avater, Kazio, ... or someone else as we won't be able to do much more today as Imran said, because no one is contributing and we also don't seem to have any usefull information today...

 

I also haven't had much time yet to really contribute to this game, but I've tried to keep up.

oh I almost forgot, AbT has also voted for me, trying to push the lynch wagon. Imagine, how before I came out swinging, the two of them were voting for the rookie Avater, and suddenly now, they're voting for me. Dont forget guys! 

 

I'm a townie and the bloody hands of Imran, AbT and Lyner will prove it!

 

Dont forget. 

Kaziocore is the best choice due to inactivity.

 

Avater is inactive too, and perhaps killing he will reveal more infos? If we decide the lynch only by inactivity we should've done that from first day

 

 

 

 

Also quite an emotional(desperate?) reply from Shah, I really hope he isn't a confused town because now my neck is on the line   

 

No matter, I agree that if Shah is actually town, Imran and AbT are the most suspicious one. That is if we didn't get any additional clues from tonight

 

Kaziocore is the best choice due to inactivity.

 

Avater is inactive too, and perhaps killing he will reveal more infos? If we decide the lynch only by inactivity we should've done that from first day

 

 

 

 

Also quite an emotional(desperate?) reply from Shah, I really hope he isn't a confused town because now my neck is on the line 

 

No matter, I agree that if Shah is actually town, Imran and AbT are the most suspicious one. That is if we didn't get any additional clues from tonight

 

There are 3.5 people playing the game man. Props to Imran and AbT eitherway.  o7 Over n Out guys, I need to take break from CN specifically, try something else, rejuvinate.  It's not desperate Lyner, it's so people remember. Good scummies will make townies forget the past days and force a reset of information with overload of this and that. 

 

Thanks for the game.

There is way too much to go through. I will post my thoughts once I am able to digest everything.

 

 

Kaziocore is the best choice due to inactivity.

 

Avater is inactive too, and perhaps killing he will reveal more infos? If we decide the lynch only by inactivity we should've done that from first day

 

 

 

 

Also quite an emotional(desperate?) reply from Shah, I really hope he isn't a confused town because now my neck is on the line 

 

No matter, I agree that if Shah is actually town, Imran and AbT are the most suspicious one. That is if we didn't get any additional clues from tonight

 

There are 3.5 people playing the game man. Props to Imran and AbT eitherway.  o7 Over n Out guys, I need to take break from CN specifically, try something else, rejuvinate.  It's not desperate Lyner, it's so people remember. Good scummies will make townies forget the past days and force a reset of information with overload of this and that. 

 

Thanks for the game.

 

[OOC] That's sad to hear Shah. It was short but enjoyable playing with you . Best of luck in taking a break o7 [/OOC]

Now back to business.

 

1. I challenged Shah 2 days ago to clear the misinformation he spread. I'd say that was quite a bit of time to post, yet he did not do that. That's why I vote and I think it's justifiable.

2. Then he appears with out of the game explanation - and it's perfectly fine explanation which would cause me to hesitate about my voting...but there's one more thing:

3. He managed to squeeze a bit of time to post (which is great, considering his situation) ... yet he was not even trying to answer my questions, just covers them with more accusations.

 

Again I'm the one that's forced to clear Shah's confusing accusations by stating FACTS - just notice who speaks in general manner that allow to blur the truth and who's giving exact post numbers to prove his point.

 

So Shah says:

- I did not refer just to D1 posts, I referred to D1 and D2 posts, contrary to what AbT has been misinforming and building on Imran's stories, a coordinated attempt at discrediting. 

So let's see what AbT was talking about. That will be post #284, for instance this:

- "Tell me again, what I was defending Imran from? Hotshots that came in with not even a pinch of proof ? Are there some serious concerns about Imran? Any indication apart from D1 teasing?"

 

I was never implying, I was asking what he had in mind. I got no answers, just more accusations.

 

Again Shah says:

- When I suggested that cops can investigate Imran or AbT, Lyner initially comes out and says cops should be free to do whatever they want, fair enough. But then, he goes on to lie that I've been spamming same as other game but my post count posted just recently proves otherwise.

 

Let's check what's Lyner really said in post #297:

- Shah, on the other hand, plays exactly like when he was scum last time, let's see what he has to say

I don't see Lyner talking about spamming, I see a remark about playstyle (which may be but don't have to be connected with spamming). Therefore I don't see any lie that Shah suggests.

 

 

Just like every other townie I can't tell for sure who's who. I sure see a possibility where Shah, Avater is a townie. But do you know what's the problem?

When I'm accused, I'm explaining myself as honest as I can. I'm not hiding anything. I'm trying logic, I'm giving post numbers so that everyone can verify me and reason for themselves.

What do I get when I'm asking questions myself? No answers, just more accusations.

If there were a situation with two townies having a trust issue would it be possible to clear things if both of them were honest? I don't know honestly, but for sure it would be easier.

 

Unfortunately my adversaries don't bother with answering questions or trying to talk about hard facts. They chose the easy way that's sowing confusion. Is this my fault...well everyone can decide it for themselves.

I would be supporting your accusations of Shah Ali if he were still playing.

 

With a change in character is it not fair to say that maybe we should abate said accusations until the person taking over his character has a moment to digest what's going on along with his role in order to constructively participate?

 

Makes sense to me. Shah threw a lot info out, yes, but now he's not here to back it up, and I'm not sure its fair for his replacement to have to take up that thread.

 

Of course, your mileage may vary.

I would be supporting your accusations of Shah Ali if he were still playing.

 

With a change in character is it not fair to say that maybe we should abate said accusations until the person taking over his character has a moment to digest what's going on along with his role in order to constructively participate?

 

Makes sense to me. Shah threw a lot info out, yes, but now he's not here to back it up, and I'm not sure its fair for his replacement to have to take up that thread.

 

Of course, your mileage may vary.

I don't agree. That's unfortunate Shah's gone, however we're not judging him, but the character he was playing. Forgetting all issues that had arisen would mean loosing a game day and throwing away all evidence we got so far. We have what we have and every player need now to make a decision whether it's enough to make a vote or it's not (and in that case we'll have no other choice but to drop it).

 

Furthermore, it's not that Shah's the only one that can clear my suspicions. If there's no logic in things I've said or I'm wrong somewhere, everyone is invited to point it out. I'd rather be told when I'm wrong and drop my suspicions than falsely accuse a townie.

Also I'm not sure why would you like to support me against Shah. I've been hammering my case for quite a bit of time, however as per post #321 you've passed it over and went after Imran. Now when opportunity arises you came with the statement that you'd support me but unfortunately you won't because of *reasons*.

 

Was I so convincing in my last post?

You have a point.

 

Carry on then.

ADDITION: Missed this last post from Ali.

 

I'm not changing my vote as of this moment. Shah's character has been on my radar as well, but Imran still pulls more scum IMO than Shah, right now.

 

I plan on continuing to evaluate any posts that come in and read opinions I trust as to where to go.

1.5 Real Life days until deadline when we need 5 to lynch.  Kaziocore is the best choice.

Although I think Imran tactics stop people from voting for others, such as scaring KH into retracting his vote. He is playing a style I admire. It's a style in which you are town and you try to draw enough attention to yourself that you might get lynched. However, not enough attention that you actually do get lynched. Mafia will see this and would rather go for someone else and have the town do the killing. I'm still puzzled on why Samus was targeted, there were about 5 others that would fit the list. My only explanation is that some of those five are leading the mafia team. I know in previously games the more experience players would tell the newer guys to go for the more talkative pro-town individuals, or those to be a threat. Previously games should not be discredited. It's how we know kevin will go for a no-lynch d1. However just because someone was scum last game doesn't mean they're are scum this game. Their playing style will most likely still remain the same, regardless. Also the experienced players will most likely tell the newer scum buddies to stay quiet and don't draw attention. KH voting the way he did either mean they didn't tell him, or he's town. Also, after re-reading d2 posts.There's just been wall of text about bickering and who's doing is more. Nothing stands too far out on d2. I think we should lynch, but Im not game for kazio or just using a lurker or inactive. let's not make it easy for the scum. An easy wagon most likely means that the scum are for it, and a well fought lynch, gives us some clues.

 

I don't have much evidence so I looking more for a newer talkative on d1 but now is quiet on d2 type of guy.

Kevin do you have a d1 vs a d2 post count?

I don't have a count, but would caution about reading too much into it if I did.  If I have a free weekend or slow time at work, I may post several times a day.  If I'm busy, it sometimes seems like I have to force myself to post once a day.

1.5 Real Life days until deadline when we need 5 to lynch.  Kaziocore is the best choice.

 

 

Deadline is Friday right?  Sorry all, been busy past few days...been trying to read up on phone when had time.  Will hope to post thoughts tomorrow.  

We need a decision, town

 

The top three people are viable candidates for the lynch: Shah Canik(3 vote), Imran(2), Kazio(2)

 

 

 

It's only a few days before deadline and the top guy in the kill list isn't even in the majority area(With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch or 5 at deadline), implying scums are comfortable with the current condition. There are around 5 scums, I'm pretty sure it'd be easy to manipulate the votes in early days.

 

 

The most puzzling thing is that nobody voted for Shah after his bold declaration, Why wouldn't scum jump on his wagon? If Shah is revealed to be town, the most suspicious person tomorrow would be Imran. Granted, it is arguable that the 4th and 5th votes will be considered opportunistic and hence be suspected, so it is either Shah is scum or the scums are experienced and careful.

 

My suspicions:

1. Shah is scum and scum team is sure he will survive today.

2. Shah is town and Imran is scum, hence his scum friends are hesitating to put the nail in Shah's coffin.

3. Most scums are inactive.

 

 

My priorites on who to kill:

1. Shah being the obvious choice is replaced so it can be a good idea to reconsider and hear what his replacement have to say

2. Kaz is inactive and Kevin has been insistent, perhaps he found some dirt on Kaz? Either way this is the safest bet for town

3. Imran, well I didn't notice much scumminess from him, but perhaps I'm being fooled by him like the last game Either way it's better than a no-lynch

 

A no-lynch is no good by this point since we have discussed and suspect each other

 

 

I want to hear our new guy's opinion first, so welcome Canik

 

Unvote

 

Vote: Kaziocore

Also it doesn't inspire new players to stay if they get lynched immediately (or NKd like samus). Just saying.

 

At the risk of looking scummy for jumping on a wagon, i don't think we should do nothing but i don't have any good reads. Im still suspicious of kevins claim since it could have just been pre empting any investigations, but its also quite bold for a scum strategy so i don't think its something to vote for. Therefore.....

 

vote Kaziocore

I agree something needs to move forward on D2. We can't have D3 going just like D1 and D2 have been. 

Vote: Kaziocore

Hi everyone. Thanks for giving me a chance to speak. I have been catching up all afternoon. Read the thread backwards, then forwards, then re-read day 2 several times, then re-read day 1 once again. Here are my observations and thoughts:

AbT is probably town. Shah believed him to be scum in league with Imran & Lyner, due to AbT defending Imran. I disagree, I believe it is more likely AbT was simply trying to be logical and unbiased. If you re-read pages 8 & 9 from day 1, you see AbT argues with Imran over town's strategy and jokes about lynching Lyner and that he's always scum. This could be some bold gambit strategy by the Mafia, but considering AbT is a novice.. weighing the risk/reward of such a strategy.. and my gut on the sincerity of the posts all tell me AbT is probably not working in concert with them.

Imran, I am a little suspicious of, but he always seems a little suspicious to me. He is good at playing consistently, playing rather aggressive even when he is town. With no real evidence, it's impossible to tell. Shah's suspicion seems to mostly stem from Imran's 'bandwagoning' accusation, but I think that whole issue was overblown. I agree with Imran that technically, that was bandwagoning. It does make me a little suspicious of Avater.

The person I find most suspicious is Lyner, after making this claim - "I got nothing from last night, sort of"
http://ironcentral.org/community/topic/56759-tw-01-cybernations-mafia-day-2/?p=851301

So you let scum know you have a power, but give 0 useful info to the town? If you have an investigation role of any sort that would be a very noob mistake for a player as experienced as yourself. It strikes me as very strange, and I'm kind of amazed it hasn't drawn more attention. If you really are town, there's a damn good chance you'll be the scum's next target now. Might as well tell us everything you can. Yet you've been quiet on it since and ignored followed-up questions (unless I missed some posts somewhere).

As for voting Kazio, there are so many being quiet and inactive, it seems like a shot in the dark to me. I think I would prefer either

1. Lynch one of the more polarizing people (Imran/Lyner/or myself) That will tell us infinitely more than lynching an inactive person. I'd prefer this even if I'm the one lynched, because once you see I'm town, that will give you something to go on moving forward. I am open to hearing Lyner's reason for the noob soft claim, but barring a very good explanation I'd lynch him first. He's done very little to help. If he & Imran are both town, I'd rather lose Lyner than Imran.

2. No lynch, because I'm very far from convinced Kazio is scum, it's a shot in the dark, and this particular game of Mafia is big enough it's a viable strategy. Though, as I believe Kevin said way earlier, we would definitely have to start lynching day 3. The game isn't THAT big.

I hope some of this helps. Do what you must everyone. If I'm lynched, please come back and re-read this after and good luck to you town.