459 replies to this topic

[Chaplain of death]

Skipping past the walls of text since eventually you guys need to learn how to convey your thoughts in a form that is shorter than an essay.

Mandy, i understand why you guys don't have good reads on me. I had already been taking a more lax approach to this game than the past couple, and have done even more so since everyone is just posting walls of text that is mostly reiterating the same few points and then quoting other massive walls so it looks like they are doing a lot. However, why would i say anything about holding my vote if i was scum? If i was afraid of being on the wagon last, id keep my mouth shut and let you guys lynch him.

Seems not very well thought out calling me out for that. You're just throwing accusations out. Seems odd you would do that in response to me pointing out the obvious.

[Rhizoctonia]

Rhizo I don't know why you have problems when talking about D1 and D2 actions in the same sentence. I'll leave it to you and wont delve into it.

 

But still you're contradicting yourself now when talking about D1. First you say:

 

"it would make sense for you to take your vote off Fermion if you were scum in case he was lynched...as you would be part of lynching a town in this scenerio"

 

Then you say it wouldn't have any impact:

 

"A mislynch this early isn't going to make people suspicious...look at the mislynch on Robert...it's been hardly talked about nor anyone involved suspected."

 

And one more of your accusations (#249 post):

 

"No, instead you hid from the lynch vote because you knew Robert was town and didn't want to be involved in a lynching of a town."

 

So what's your opinion on that? It constantly changes the way that suits you.

 

 

I'm also curious how is not having much to go on good for lynching. I got totally opposite experience in TW's game. It took a lot of time and a lot of proofs to convince others you were a scum. Everyone preferred to lynch inactives. Noone was voting on even halfactive players, because as opposite to lurkers/inactives people demand hard facts to lynch them.

I don't find logic here and I believe you're just crafting those opinions for the sake of not agreeing. 

 

So far you've used to attack me:

 

- My OOC post.

- My post I've made awful comment for which I've apologized immediately. You've admitted you know I've apologized, though it didn't stopped you from using it just to get dramatic effect of "Why you so understanding with them and not me?" (Even though I've never said it was about you. In fact it was about Finster, who I've already told was less active than you).

- Changing your opinions on a whim.

 

I just don't know why are you doing this. Is this your grudge and trying to get revenge on me or are you a scum that will not back from anything?

 

 

I am merely looking at things in different ways.  How I would play something, or how I look at an action is not the same for each person either.  There is so much in this game that can be looked at and used in whatever fashion they want to either take it or spin it.  People saying a normal townie would do this, or a normal scum would do that, or etc is honestly a bit pointless, because if there is a set way in which a scum or a town plays and you and everyone else is set on that, then you're only giving say a scum the best way to play it because it wouldn't be something a scum would do in your eyes.  If you say a scum wouldn't come out so aggressively to lynch a town and put themselves in the spotlight, then you're basically telling the scum to do that because obviously you will dismiss it, and not suspect they're scum because they wouldn't do that.  You made a list of scenarios and why it would be stupid of you to do what you have.  I'm merely pointing out ways that in may in fact not be stupid of you.  What you imply would not be something a scum wouldn't do, is exactly what a scum should do then.

 

You sitting there and saying it would be stupid of you to do something doesn't necessarily mean you wouldn't do it, because it's doing something most expect a scum to not do and may dismiss it then.  If we're so set in the ways of what a scum will do, we are only giving them the route to take because doing so wouldn't be something a scum would do in at least your eyes.

 

I'm not necessarily saying you're doing that, but in my responses to your scenarios, I played the devils advocate.  I'm well aware they contradict themselves...but as I'm trying to get at, people can play the role of scum different, and pointing out that there are different ways to perceive each action...how it's seen by the rest is really the factor that matters and that could have varying opinions.  Staying out of of a lynch on a townie is a good way to not make you a suspect if people want to look into that lynch, while being an aggressive scum and pushing a lynch could be a good idea as well, because even after the townie is lynched people could think well a scum wouldn't push nor reveal himself that much so doubt they're scum.  

 

In each scenario it really depends on how each individual looks at each thing.  I personally would think most scum would look to not be a vote on a successfully townie lynch if possible.  I also don't think most scum wouldn't put themselves as the main pusher for a lynch if they don't have to, but then again that could be the very reason to do so, because I wouldn't suspect them to and may give them the benefit of the doubt that they read someone wrong and just mislyched.  

 

 

I'm also curious how is not having much to go on good for lynching. I got totally opposite experience in TW's game. It took a lot of time and a lot of proofs to convince others you were a scum. Everyone preferred to lynch inactives. Noone was voting on even halfactive players, because as opposite to lurkers/inactives people demand hard facts to lynch them.

I don't find logic here and I believe you're just crafting those opinions for the sake of not agreeing. 

 

I'm sorry you don't find logic here, you and I will simply have to disagree.  I'm not saying a scum would do it, but if they did, I think day 2 would be the ideal time for a scum to be aggressive if they want.  If scum wanted to, they could look through posts of the active town and find a response/responses of one that they could look to come off scummish and try to push it.  This all would depend on how well the scum can sell it, and look to twist ones words.  It likely won't be damning evidence, but if done well enough they could pull it off, or waste most of the time that day where the options are really only that person, or an inactive like you mentioned.  As i stated, I feel if a scum want to be aggressive the earlier the better.  The later it gets, the more people start checking people off as likely or confirmed town, so the ability to look to push a lynch is more difficult once people have better reads on people.  Early on, we have speculations and ideas of people, but no one is really confirmed, and if you're able to shed enough uncertainty, you very well could knock someone off.  

 

I'm not going to continue to keep going back and forth on this, wasting your time and mine on something that is going no where.  If you want to suggest that makes me scummy then that's fine, I have spent enough time this day trying to get what I'm trying to say in text the best way I can to you.  In regards to the OOC, it can be dealt with over PM if you so wish or after this game ends because I don't want to break any rules of me and you talking outside this thread.  But I'm not gonna make people have to read discussion of it anymore then I've made them already when it's between you and me.

[Ali bin Turban]

Rhizo, let's sum up your last explanation to just one sentence.You know you're contradicting yourself, but you do it to catch other peoples on their contradictions:

 

I'm not necessarily saying you're doing that, but in my responses to your scenarios, I played the devils advocate.  I'm well aware they contradict themselves

 

O the two scum have come out to play. I will be going into detail of the contradictions later when I'm at a computer (That's from #245)

[KevinH]

Vote Count:

Imran Ehsan (4): Rhizoctonia, The Warrior, Canik, King Hitler,
The Warrior (2): Ali bin Turban, Imran Ehsan,
iSocialism (1): Whitebeard,
King Hitler (1): Rafay,
Rafay (1): Mandarijn,
Whitebeard (0):
Rhizoctonia (0):
Canik (0):
Chaplain of Death (0):
Ali bin Turban (0)
Mandarijn (0)

No lynch (0):

Not voting: iSocialism, Chaplain of Death,

 

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch or 3 at deadline.
Deadline is 13:00 EDT Sunday, June 12.

[Ali bin Turban]

Skipping past the walls of text since eventually you guys need to learn how to convey your thoughts in a form that is shorter than an essay.

Mandy, i understand why you guys don't have good reads on me. I had already been taking a more lax approach to this game than the past couple, and have done even more so since everyone is just posting walls of text that is mostly reiterating the same few points and then quoting other massive walls so it looks like they are doing a lot. However, why would i say anything about holding my vote if i was scum? If i was afraid of being on the wagon last, id keep my mouth shut and let you guys lynch him.

Seems not very well thought out calling me out for that. You're just throwing accusations out. Seems odd you would do that in response to me pointing out the obvious.

If it seems odd then it's probably not true, isn't it?

 

Going trough walls of text is not fun, it's tiresome. You can read them anyway, you can get few other people that think the same and vote on the ones that are doing that or maybe ask everyone for their opinions on the matter and if they all agree pressure culprits to stop doing it.

Just surrendering is the easiest way but it does not help town at all. I think that's obvious.

[Mandarijn]

Skipping past the walls of text since eventually you guys need to learn how to convey your thoughts in a form that is shorter than an essay.

Mandy, i understand why you guys don't have good reads on me. I had already been taking a more lax approach to this game than the past couple, and have done even more so since everyone is just posting walls of text that is mostly reiterating the same few points and then quoting other massive walls so it looks like they are doing a lot. However, why would i say anything about holding my vote if i was scum? If i was afraid of being on the wagon last, id keep my mouth shut and let you guys lynch him.

Seems not very well thought out calling me out for that. You're just throwing accusations out. Seems odd you would do that in response to me pointing out the obvious.

I haven't played many games, but in both games scum didn't vote when they didn't need to as it gives information to the town. So it's well thought out from me.  

[Rhizoctonia]

Rhizo, let's sum up your last explanation to just one sentence.You know you're contradicting yourself, but you do it to catch other peoples on their contradictions:

 

I'm not necessarily saying you're doing that, but in my responses to your scenarios, I played the devils advocate.  I'm well aware they contradict themselves

 

O the two scum have come out to play. I will be going into detail of the contradictions later when I'm at a computer (That's from #245)

 

Lol, if that's all you read from that then o well.  Your now purposefully being obtuse.  You start talking about "scenario's" as if I am or anyone else is suppose to sit there and take your word 100% for it.  You say it's stupid to do this or stupid that, as if there wouldn't be a reason to do just that if you were scum.  You want me to sit and accept it as if there couldn't be a reason for you to do it.

 

And it's funny because you actually don't address any of my answers to my scenario's.  I'm being objectionable to your responses, and giving out ways it might not be stupid to do, and instead looking to deny them or those possibilities, you are avoiding them.  Instead attacking me

 

it would make sense for you to take your vote off Fermion if you were scum in case he was lynched...as you would be part of lynching a town in this scenerio

 

 

So are you telling me it wouldn't?  You said it would be smart of you to look to join me on my accusations and keep your vote on Fermion if you were scum and he was town.  Why would it be smart to be apart of a lynch if you didn't have to, especially getting out an inactive player at that?  Why would you keep your vote on Fermion when Robert already had enough votes to be lynched and you knew you were getting out another town without your help?  Instead, you could take your vote off Fermion and go after someone else that didn't stand a chance to get lynched, Lyner.  But no, you talk about TW talking about avoiding things, I present a real counter to your argument and you avoid it and look to attack me instead

 

like Mandarijn said, scum can't sit here and continue to try to pick off the inactive town and leave the active ones...that would be a bad move.  So first and foremost, it helps scum to take out the active town, so trying to take TW out makes sense.  Also, because Lyner being killed at night and him last calling out me and TW you can try to use.  In fact, it's been suggested that could be a reason for us to kill Lyner as some type of evidence to have us lynched, and tbh, I see Lyner's lynch exactly as that...trying to setup one of us.  Now I came out pretty townish come day 2 because I was adamant about not lynching an inactive that ended up town...so that leaves TW to go after, or at least the easiest of the 2.

 

I'll quote my whole response because you avoided it and decided to pick a single sentence from that.  You keep saying it would be stupid to go after TW if you were scum.  I presented an actual reason for it, and instead of actually countering it, all you did was look to spin it back around of me, taking a single sentence from it, avoiding the rest.  Which seems to be a pattern for you.

 

-  Kill an Active Scum

-  Already can use Lyner as a setup to push the lynch which you have

 

Then you try to act as if a scum wouldn't be so aggressive, for which CoD even called you out for.

 

Problem with your thinking ABT is that because you don't expect scum to do this, they CAN get away with it. I've played that way in the past as scum, and got away with it for a long time because "why would scum do that, it wouldn't make sense." Just saying.

 

 

Exactly what my last post was all about, the ability to get away with something because no one expects scum to do it.  CoD has said he has even done that.  You want to say it's stupid to do this or stupid to do that as scum, yet it's the very reason to do it.  I see you skipped right over that though, again pulling a sentence out of my whole response and look to take it out of context and avoid anything else.  My response was echoing CoD, and now two people have called you out for the problems with your thinking...but you keep doing your best to skip over that.  Just how you've done with my other responses.

 

You want to keep avoiding and taking things out of context, fine by me.  You try to make scenarios on why you can't be scum because it would be stupid to do this or that, I find holes in them, and instead of addressing them you look to spin it on me.  If me sitting here pointing out the holes in your thoughts is me being scummy, then so be it, I've presented reasons a scum would/could do the exact opposite of what you're doing, and another player has even agreed with the aggressive one.  You want to push a lynch on me, fine by me, I have said I welcomed it.  It will allow people to look back through all my claims and Imran and you be #1 and #2.   I've said I've given you the benefit of the doubt for now, but you keep digging yourself right back in that hole to be right besides Imran in all this.  

 

As for Imran, I don't feel his scumminess. I don't understand his remarks about VT, but I don't think that's enough to lynch him. Good enough to pressure him (but everything is good to put pressure on anyone - that's one way of playing) to see how he reacts. I don't feel his random votes and OMGUS'es are any scum indicators.

I don't mind pressing him (I don't mind pressing anyone - finding a scum or a town - it's the same method), though I believe no town will like to get him into 6 votes for insta lynch (as it will rob us out of information).

 

 

You don't mind pressing him but you haven't.  Still haven't.  Canik has already presented how Imran's explanation of his comment doesn't make sense before I could, you ignore it.  Or the fact he came out of left field and was quick to jump on TW's bandwagon you started.   And all you've worked to do is make sure a lynch is elsewhere off of him.  You presented the idea of lynching people from the "groups."  I'm fine with that, if people want to start with me, go right ahead, it will free up my time and get lynching the real scum a day later.  Imran #1 you #2.  And if you're town, you'll get to see how you have wasted your whole time trying to lynch 2 townies (Me i know, TW I'm pretty sure on), and how you single handily probably cost the town the win.  

[Ali bin Turban]

Why should I answer everything you write when you say yourself "I'm not going to continue to keep going back and forth on this, wasting your time and mine on something that is going no where"

 

Yet you continue and are even upset I've not responded fully even if you seemingly didn't want to.

My last post I've been just citing different lines from your own posts to prove you're lying. Yet you say I'm attacking you...you mean with your own words?

 

I've said all I needed to on the subject of scums "do's and don'ts". I'm not interested in talking with your about it, because you're liar (as I've shown in http://ironcentral.org/community/topic/57112-kh-12-sharing-is-caring-mafia-day-2/page-15#entry861561). What are your opinions worth when you can change them anytime. You couldn't even find enough courage to admit your mistake, instead coming with weak "devils advocate" excuse (Please do check the definition - it's not someone who lies).

 

If anyone else will be interested enough to ask me a question am all his.

 

 

You don't mind pressing him but you haven't. Still haven't. Canik has already presented how Imran's explanation of his comment doesn't make sense before I could, you ignore it. Or the fact he came out of left field and was quick to jump on TW's bandwagon you started. And all you've worked to do is make sure a lynch is elsewhere off of him. You presented the idea of lynching people from the "groups." I'm fine with that, if people want to start with me, go right ahead, it will free up my time and get lynching the real scum a day later. Imran #1 you #2. And if you're town, you'll get to see how you have wasted your whole time trying to lynch 2 townies (Me i know, TW I'm pretty sure on), and how you single handily probably cost the town the win.

I'm not your pressing machine. I'm fine with you or anyone else pressing anyone they wish. But don't order me around, you're not my superior. I'm going to press whomever I find the biggest suspect at the moment and not who you think I should.

And no offense...but you just need to pray now that Imran is in fact a scum. Because if he's not you'll come out as a biggest fool in this game with your pages long tirades that have lead you nowhere. You just pray now.

[Rhizoctonia]

Why should I answer everything you write when you say yourself "I'm not going to continue to keep going back and forth on this, wasting your time and mine on something that is going no where"

Yet you continue and are even upset I've not responded fully even if you seemingly didn't want to.
My last post I've been just citing different lines from your own posts to prove you're lying. Yet you say I'm attacking you...you mean with your own words?

I've said all I needed to on the subject of scums "do's and don'ts". I'm not interested in talking with your about it, because you're liar (as I've shown in http://ironcentral.org/community/topic/57112-kh-12-sharing-is-caring-mafia-day-2/page-15#entry861561). What are your opinions worth when you can change them anytime. You couldn't even find enough courage to admit your mistake, instead coming with weak "devils advocate" excuse (Please do check the definition - it's not someone who lies).

If anyone else will be interested enough to ask me a question am all his.

You don't mind pressing him but you haven't. Still haven't. Canik has already presented how Imran's explanation of his comment doesn't make sense before I could, you ignore it. Or the fact he came out of left field and was quick to jump on TW's bandwagon you started. And all you've worked to do is make sure a lynch is elsewhere off of him. You presented the idea of lynching people from the "groups." I'm fine with that, if people want to start with me, go right ahead, it will free up my time and get lynching the real scum a day later. Imran #1 you #2. And if you're town, you'll get to see how you have wasted your whole time trying to lynch 2 townies (Me i know, TW I'm pretty sure on), and how you single handily probably cost the town the win.

I'm not your pressing machine. I'm fine with you or anyone else pressing anyone they wish. But don't order me around, you're not my superior. I'm going to press whomever I find the biggest suspect at the moment and not who you think I should.
And no offense...but you just need to pray now that Imran is in fact a scum. Because if he's not you'll come out as a biggest fool in this game with your pages long tirades that have lead you nowhere. You just pray now.

I keep going because you don't know when to stop

And you skip the questions again, avoidance once again. I have look to answer everything you've thrown out, you don't, just pick and choose what you can throw back citing single sentences out of a thought. Call TW for avoiding things, does the exact same.

And your last statement I'm not too worried about, the only fool is going to be you when you have spent the day attacking 2 towns(2 for sure) and getting no where.

[SeaBeeGipson]

KH in post #262 suggested the idea of using the Vigilante to take out two people to get extra information today. Instinct says it's a bad idea but thought I'd go ahead and do some math on it since no one else has.
11-2=9
11-3=8
9-2=7-2=5-2=3
8-2=6-2=4-2=2
Assuming we don't use Vig again and we find no scum, not using him today would give us 1 extra mislynch. Also 1 extra shot for the town power roles. A couple shots for the Vig & Jailkeep towards the end when we have more info could be big. So yeah, seems like this is a bad idea to me. Though not terrible, if we had unlimited shots it might be worth it.

Wouldn't it supply information faster though? Say Imran gets lynched, the Vig kills me, and Mafia targets Mandarijn. All by D3. Depending on the X value the RPs have, it'd still give the cop the ability to look into at least 1 more person. With field cut down and odds are if we lynch one person and the Vig can target someone who appears scummy (hopefully the right target.), we have a decent (not.perfect) chance of hitting scum. But we also have a chance to a RP. But with the faster Intel we'do gather, we may be able to avoid that mislynch. Again, just brainstorming.

Speaking of X value, how are we even sure the cop is active and looking into people if we don't know the X value after every night? It could be 4 and no one did anything. Could be 3 and the cop did investigate. I think we're putting a lot of faith in the cop.

[Rhizoctonia]

*(1 for sure)

Fat fingers

[Ali bin Turban]

If cop is inactive we'll probably loose this game. It was balanced (I hope) around having cop (cop is worth extra points when balancing setups).

[The Warrior]

 

Speaking of X value, how are we even sure the cop is active and looking into people if we don't know the X value after every night? It could be 4 and no one did anything. Could be 3 and the cop did investigate. I think we're putting a lot of faith in the cop.

 

 

We can't be sure. It looks like the only people who can be sure are the other power roles:

All role PMs have been sent.

 

I will inform the town power roles the value of X after each night.

 

We just need to trust that our cop is active.

[KevinH]

Vote Count:

Imran Ehsan (4): Rhizoctonia, The Warrior, Canik, King Hitler,
The Warrior (2): Ali bin Turban, Imran Ehsan,
iSocialism (1): Whitebeard,
King Hitler (1): Rafay,
Rafay (1): Mandarijn,
Whitebeard (0):
Rhizoctonia (0):
Canik (0):
Chaplain of Death (0):
Ali bin Turban (0)
Mandarijn (0)

No lynch (0):

Not voting: iSocialism, Chaplain of Death,

 

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch or 3 at deadline.
Deadline is 13:00 EDT Sunday, June 12.

[The Warrior]

We aren't getting anywhere in the ABT/Imran vs TW/Rhizo debate anymore. I think that it's time that we take Mandarijn up on his offer and start pressuring the lurkers too.

 

As mentioned earlier, If Imran turns out to be town I am certain that all three of the scum will be found in this grouping: Whitebeard, iSoc, Rafay, COD, Canik, King Hitler. Three of these can also be found on the Robert wagon (Rafay, COD, King Hitler).

 

So let's first examine Robert's wagon more closely:

 

1) Mandarijn was the first to vote for Robert to try and pressure him to do something (post #125).

-Mandarijn's stated reason for voting for Robert seems to be the most town. Robert was completely inactive and Mandarijn just wanted to see if pressuring him would raise his activity, if not then Mandarijn wanted to see if there was a replacement available.

2) Rafay immediately votes for Robert saying "Pressure on Robert it is. Better a vanilla than a power role" (post #126).

-Possibly seeing an easy opportunity for a lynch that he wouldn't have to start, Rafay jumps on the wagon and makes a weird (but obvious) statement about it being better to lynch a vanilla than a power role when referring to Robert. What did we know at that point that in any way indicated that Robert was a VT and not a power role?

3) COD votes for Robert saying "Id prefer lynching someone other than just an inactive but lowering the pool of inactives that scum can hide in now is better than trying to do it later" (post #151).

-COD says that even though he'd prefer lynching someone who wasn't inactive that it'd be better to do it at that time instead of trying to sort through the inactives (lurkers) later. Well it is only day 2 and we are already fighting this battle. Interestingly enough COD has turned out to be one of those inactives in this game which is quite a change from the other two games I've seen him play in. Even though COD hasn't been completely inactive or lurking to the degree of iSoc/Rafay, his only real comments about the Imran/ABT vs TW/Rhizo debate were that he refused to read the walls of text and therefore skipped them. He does go on to indicate though that he didn't see a need to cast his vote since Imran was going to be lynched anyway. As much as it does suck to read through giant WOT's especially several in a row it is pretty important that townies do so anyway so that we can get their input. Refusing to read the posts and then just commenting about not needing to cast his vote because Imran was going to be lynched anyway could mean that either COD didn't feel the need to get involved in a townie spat and potentially bring unwanted attention to himself or that he realized that his scum partner Imran was already going down and he would be best served by staying away.

4) King Hitler casts the final vote for Robert (post #166).

-KH admits that casting the final vote on Robert would make him potentially suspicious. He goes on to say that Robert was way too inactive and says that his inactivity hurts the town whether he's town or scum. He then says though that lynching him doesn't get us much information and since he hadn't made any posts there wouldn't be much for us to go off of. Finally he says that he doesn't think that anyone voting for Robert so far would be scum because scum wouldn't want to wagon on someone who provides no information. If KH is scum and there was at least one other scum on Robert's wagon before him it would make sense that he would say something like that in order to cover not only himself but any other scum also on the wagon. He then throws out what feels like a token townie comment at the end before voting saying: "Let's hope he's not the cop. That'd suck."

 

Secondly, the fact that iSoc, Rafay, Whitebeard, and COD (somewhat) have remained silent throughout the entirety of the discussion between ABT/Imran and Me/Rhizo is concerning. It makes me believe that either: 1) Out of the four of us only Imran is scum and the other two are choosing not to involve themselves and keep as much distance as possible while we try to lynch one another, or 2) All four of us are town and they know that they don't have to say anything and can sit back and watch us all lynch each other and when a player on one of the "teams" turns up as town that will automatically cast suspicion on the other pair who can then be targeted for tomorrow's lynch.

 

@iSoc, Rafay, Whitebeard, and COD: Why have you been just about completely absent from the majority of conversation on day 2?

[Ali bin Turban]

If Imran is not coming out and talking he'll get lynched. If he's a PR if would be nice of him to role claim now. If he does not show up there won't be much to do for those last 2 days.

 

...so it's good moment to do some strategising which TW says is important (though he just says it, not really doing it).

 

We're now 11 people. Tomorrow most probably we'll be 9. We got quite a bit of information from today's quarrels and all we need now is confirmation. On D3:

 - 2 people will be confirmed by their deaths.

 - 1 cop will be confirmed by stepping out (chances are still low so I assume he'll survive).

 - There's 65% chance that both of cops targets will still be alive (not lynched or killed). Probably closer to 70% due to the fact that cop may have chosen to investigate scums (that don't risk getting night killed).

 - There are two more people that can roleclaim (jailer and vigilante)

 

If everyone possible gets confirmed that leaves us with 11-2-1-3 (I'm assuming cop will investigate one person that will turn out dead or one that will turn out to be a power role) =  5 people that will be unknown. So roughly the half. That could give us enough insight onto who's who.

Because it's crucial to get the knowledge of as many players as we can, we need to consider if other PR's should come out too (mass role claim is allowed).

 

Now what are the possible situations:

 

1. We decide PR's should come out...but scum can also claim to be PR: it's a serious threat. How to minimize it?

  - All PR, apart from cop (scums are also invited ), should claim their roles as fast as possible on D3. 

  - Cop should wait till the mid of D3 to give time for the other PR's to claim

This way scums will be afraid to roleclaim power roles and conflicts ( like two people claiming to be jailers) will be less probable. It's because if they claim, cop may step out and say "oh no, you're not, you're scum".

  - Any second PR that decides to reveal himself after Cop has done so should be considered imposter and lynched on sight.

 

2. "But why other PR's should come out, they'll be killed?".

  - Cop will be main target for N4 anyway (sure someone else might be killed and as I said some time ago it'll be a mind game, but default target is cop), so they're pretty safe for N4.

  - There will be more confirmed people so it'll be easier to weed out scums.

  - If Cop somehow survives N4 he'll have easier time finding remaining scum.

  - Both jailer and vigilante are very situational - they may have use or not (depending on the situation) - by claiming their roles they give immediate benefit and still can use their powers (though they won't probably live for long).

 

3. We decide that PR's should not come out:

 - We'll have probably 2 more unconfirmed people tomorrow making it harder for the cop to find scum (if he somehow survives N3) and harder for us to lynch the right guys.

 - We'll be risking a scum making PR claims to save their hides (Less likely to force a misslynch - it will favor scums only if we're close to losing the game).

 

Conclusions:

 

- I believe that, if it turns out we myslynch a town today, it'll be more favourable for PR to come out (in a fashion I've described). With 2 misslynches we can afford to miss just one more time, so we'll need to clear as many obstacles as possible.

- If we lynch a scum today, we'll be in a safer position (being able to miss 2 times). Also risk of scums claiming PR's will be much lower (they can't go 1vs1 exchange until we make some stupid moves and they'd do it only to save their hides) so our PR's can stay in cover and come out any moment they wish.

 

 

4. Scum comes out and claims to be a cop. This may sound ridiculous at first but it's a serious concern. AntiCop can come out and show two townies without any problem. Who should we believe then? There's no way to differentiate between them (and it's extremely easy for an active scum to look more townish than lurking cop). Obviously we'll find it out but there's high risk we'll lynch our own cop first.

 

- Assuming both of them will show true towns - we'll be forced to lynch one of the cop. It'll be random then. Even though killing less active cop first might seem to be a better solution (due to risk management), active scum my use that opportunity in order to get 100% sure misslynch. It'll all depend on the situation.

- Assuming at least one of them shows a scum - generally we should take out one of the presumable cops + presumable scums group (who exactly we'll need to decide at that moment).

- Obviously if killed guy turns out to be a town, antiCop is next on the lynch list.

 

- If Imran turns out to be a town (2 missed lynches) risk of antiCop appearing increases, because believing a wrong cop will mean 3rd missed lynch. We'll be just one step from defeat then.

- If Imran turns out to be a scum antiCop appearance will be quite risky (they won't be able to capitalize on a possible misslynch).

 

5. AntiCop appears along with false PR's - very, very risky for the scum. If we get PR's to claim their roles before cop, false PR's will not know if they're going to be caught red handed. and if they're unlucky they can be even wiped out without much town loses. That's high risk low reward move for the scums.

[Chaplain of death]

Probably because i only get 5 to 10 minutes at a time to read this thread and i literally can't stay current on the discussion if people blather on and fill their posts with extra bullshit.

For those of you commenting on me not voting, the point is to not allow scum to finish the wagon whenever they want and end the day early. If i were scum and staying ofc the wagon i would have kept my trap shut. Saying I'm holding my vote off Imran without disagreeing with the wagon accomplishes literally nothing for me if I'm scum. And to be quite honest, if i were scum i could have kept skating by since all of you who are accusing lurkers left me off those lists for a long time. So why put myself out there when the was no pressure to do so?

[Imran Ehsan]

If you have a defense I would actually love to hear it because I'd rather lynch someone who is scum rather than someone who isn't.

 

I really doubt that, scum. And lol at already trying to cover your bases with listing out who may be scum if I get lynched. You will be confirmed scum for one, which is why I am not too worried about me getting lynched. You had 0 suspicion of me before I voted for you and suddenly you come up with BS reasons and regurgitated clueless accusations from others to try to paint me as scum as soon as you saw you were probably going to get lynched.

 

Of course the town is being hoodwinked by you assisted by the completely clueless Rhizo (if he is town). Oh by the way,,LOL at town for letting Rhizo of all people taking the lead to actually lynch someone. I havent read so much whining, ranting and rambling on and on about completely wrong stuff from anyone before. Not to mention he had a personal vendetta in trying to get me lynched from the timw I got him lynched in his first game. In the last game also, he came out targetting me specificially for no reason on D2. Oh yeah they were assisted walls and walls of ramblings and BS reasons as well. Again the same strategy this game, but for once I think he is not scum. Which makes it all the more pathetic. Hey..you got me lynched once..now I got you,,,,ha ha..Its just painful to read his posts. Good job on scum hunting Mr Rhizo. Have fun letting him lead you to lynch more townies in the next days also, rest of town. lol

 

At least I can say I never led the town on a lynch on a townie. When I am sure about someone I push hard and most times than not they turn out scum *check my last several games if you dont believe it). If I am not that sure I dont push that hard and let the other townies decide what they want to do.

 

btw did I mention TW is scum?

 

Anyways, all these personal bullshit from Rhizo and his thousands of lines of rants and really managed to do what hast happened for over 2 yearsl This games are now a chore for me to read, not fun. So no, I am not gonna try to push forward a defence to try to avert a lynch, Lynch me. See how clueless Rhizo is (if you let him lead another lynch wagon for townies..shame on you). See how scummy TW is. And move on to the next day.

 

piece of advice. If you are the cop dont target TW tonight. He will have the framer target him tonight.

[Chaplain of death]

Framer can't make scum appear townie. Kevin said as much.

[Rhizoctonia]

 

If you have a defense I would actually love to hear it because I'd rather lynch someone who is scum rather than someone who isn't.

 

I really doubt that, scum. And lol at already trying to cover your bases with listing out who may be scum if I get lynched. You will be confirmed scum for one, which is why I am not too worried about me getting lynched. You had 0 suspicion of me before I voted for you and suddenly you come up with BS reasons and regurgitated clueless accusations from others to try to paint me as scum as soon as you saw you were probably going to get lynched.

 

Of course the town is being hoodwinked by you assisted by the completely clueless Rhizo (if he is town). Oh by the way,,LOL at town for letting Rhizo of all people taking the lead to actually lynch someone. I havent read so much whining, ranting and rambling on and on about completely wrong stuff from anyone before. Not to mention he had a personal vendetta in trying to get me lynched from the timw I got him lynched in his first game. In the last game also, he came out targetting me specificially for no reason on D2. Oh yeah they were assisted walls and walls of ramblings and BS reasons as well. Again the same strategy this game, but for once I think he is not scum. Which makes it all the more pathetic. Hey..you got me lynched once..now I got you,,,,ha ha..Its just painful to read his posts. Good job on scum hunting Mr Rhizo. Have fun letting him lead you to lynch more townies in the next days also, rest of town. lol

 

At least I can say I never led the town on a lynch on a townie. When I am sure about someone I push hard and most times than not they turn out scum *check my last several games if you dont believe it). If I am not that sure I dont push that hard and let the other townies decide what they want to do.

 

btw did I mention TW is scum?

 

Anyways, all these personal bullshit from Rhizo and his thousands of lines of rants and really managed to do what hast happened for over 2 yearsl This games are now a chore for me to read, not fun. So no, I am not gonna try to push forward a defence to try to avert a lynch, Lynch me. See how clueless Rhizo is (if you let him lead another lynch wagon for townies..shame on you). See how scummy TW is. And move on to the next day.

 

piece of advice. If you are the cop dont target TW tonight. He will have the framer target him tonight.

 

 

 

Wow....lol yea last game.  The game that you were the one to first vote me, the one I called you out on a bad reason for a vote which others agreed with me on that you got salty about, and the same game I was scum and looked to stay alive and lynch townies for which you were.   Wait, please tell me how many people you called out last game for holding grudges?  I think the count was up to 3 or 4, hey look, another game, same accusation.  Which is fine, i've accepted that when anyone looks to push a lynch on you that you're going to come out with the "grudge" comment if you ever got them killed in another game, its now 2 games in a row.  Yea...no one can look to lynch the almighty mafia God unless it's over a grudge.  

 

But thank you for commenting one last time before the lynch to look to shit on my ability to play this game and how great you're.  You're right I may not be the best mafia player, but at least I don't have to be arrogant like yourself.  I would hope you'd be better then me all around in this with your experience compared to mine, but please, keep boosting about it, I surely hope it brings you some kind of happiness.  

 

We'll see if TW is town at some point in this game, be it today or later on.  I for one believe he is.  If you come up town and he comes up scum, I'll apologize for getting it wrong, but at this point, I don't think I am.