926 replies to this topic

[Sister Midnight]

Scum have been known to do strange things.

However, my suspicions are more towards iSoc and Preston.

I've leaning towards them as well.  Why didn't preston vote at all, I wonder?

[Preston]

So 1cecream turned out to be town - but since it was generally accepted in the thread yesterday that everyone wanted to test him first due to Rhizo, I don't think that really tells us anything. We can try and look at who were the strongest pushes for him, but everyone seemed to be on the same page.

What is more surprising to me is to see TWO kills last night - I'm surprised to not see more people reacting to THAT game-changer. Unless someone claims credit for one one of them with a vigilante role, I'm guessing the scum have a JoAT of their own. On the plus side I'm betting it's one-shot - if it was a multi-use role I'd have expected them to use it before now.

What reactions we HAVE had seem to be largely defensive, or attempting to influence the start of the day.

Trust me it seems suspicious as hell that I had issues with both Wolfpacks and 1ceCream but you think if I had issues with them, that I would make myself more sus by killing them?

This is fairly WIFOM, in the sense of a "Why would I do X when I know that it would make me look suspicious, so I'd have no reason to do X" type of argument - however no one had singled you out so this defense is kinda pre-emptive.

Scum have been known to do strange things.

However, my suspicions are more towards iSoc and Preston.

I've leaning towards them as well.  Why didn't preston vote at all, I wonder?

While I have iSoc on my suspect list as well, it's interesting that you're jumping to this question immediately - I didn't vote for the same reason that you originally did not, belief that it would hammer the day early and prevent discussion. This was even a point Ali responded to yesterday when Lego said that hammering 1cecream's wagon would be a town move.

I count 5 votes on Icecream I currently plan to vote for him, but we have until Tues. and I could easily flip back to Preston, so I am hoping no one ends the day early.

Since we're at 5 votes on 1cecream I'm not going to hammer the day so that we have more time to talk, but between iSocialism and 1cecream I can see testing either as viable scum prospects. If conversation dies down mid-weekend we can go ahead and push for the next day.

@Lego - you're jumping into wrong conclusions. 1ceCream's fate is mostly decided now. Few other people would jump already, but that would end day prematurely...so making a vote (unless we've discussed all that was to be discussed) would not be townish but rather scummy.

So this is a non-issue; if you have OTHER reasons to suspect me that's fine, but articulate those instead.

If you're wondering why I didn't jump onto the wagon after it completed, a) TW locks the thread fairly quickly - helped by when Lego posted in the game PM to prompt his attention, and it would have served no point and been a blatant grab for points just for being on the day's wagon. Per Ali, the town's course was basically set and there was no strong dissent aside from King Hitler questioning if 1cecream's post looked like a scum dying or not.

Also note that King Hitler similarly did not vote yesterday, as did 1cecream (though the latter is now moot) - but you single out me alone?

-Preston
Addendum; listing in format b ) turns into an emote apparently, and I can't edit that. Ugh.

[D34THBR1NG3R]

This is fairly WIFOM, in the sense of a "Why would I do X when I know that it would make me look suspicious, so I'd have no reason to do X" type of argument - however no one had singled you out so this defense is kinda pre-emptive.

 you know what they say, better to be safe than sorry... And what would you have liked me to say... nothing? and then when I would be accused I would say the same thing, so there's no other avenues for defense for me here

[Finster Baby]

I didn't realize he was at 5 votes when I hammered him or I would have waited. My RL this past weekend kicked my ass. *shakes fist at Harry Potter Hurricane*

I give King Hitler a pass on not voting since he just joined on D4. There's a lot to digest.

I right now have iSoc and Preston as my 2 main suspects. Looking for some help either way to go/no-go on a vote for either.

A JOAT on the scum side was more than likely. And if TW held true to form, it was 1-shot, and they weren't allowed to use the vig kill till N4. We just have to find him now, and most of our power roles are gone, except for the cop.

Which, Mr. Policeman, we can use your help.

[Mazuurek]

hi, this is dumbledore, since i'm probably going to go this night anyways might aswell post my results which are absolutely useless interms of scum hunting, yaaaaaaaaaaay

night one i investigated rafay which died or was lynched (cant remember)

night two i investigated SM, came up as normal student

night three i investigated chap (dead) who was killed by rhizo the same night, he came up as non helpful so yeah i'm not insane

night four, preston, normal.

basically shitty results

Which, Mr. Policeman, we can use your help.

 

your wish has been granted!

[Finster Baby]

Actually, that helps a lot.

I'll go one further: You are Hermione Granger, a normal Hogwarts Student.

[legoboyvdlp]

Death nobody accused you of anything, sounds like a scum covering up his tracks...
Preston, SM, Finster, and me and Maz are town... let me count up
Ali, Death, King-Samus, iSoc...

But of course, godfather etc

So make the most of tonight, try iSoc maybe. Or King Hitler - Samus
But don't forget the godfather.

How about a role claim from any of those above 4 that are not basically confirmed townie?

Anything to make us believe you are town? We need info...

Thanks mazu
All I have to say gnight

[D34THBR1NG3R]

Death nobody accused you of anything, sounds like a scum covering up his tracks..

sounds like people here aren't big on reading explanations  

let me count up Ali, Death, King-Samus, iSoc... But of course, godfather etc So make the most of tonight, try iSoc maybe. Or King Hitler - Samus But don't forget the godfather. How about a role claim from any of those above 4 that are not basically confirmed townie?

 i already role claimed 

[SeaBeeGipson]

Trust me it seems suspicious as hell that I had issues with both Wolfpacks and 1ceCream but you think if I had issues with them, that I would make myself more sus by killing them?

I do agree with Finister, you came off pretty defensive very quick. I don't know how many games you've played, so it might just be a noob error, but I have suspicions. I'll elaborate further down.

 

hi, this is dumbledore, since i'm probably going to go this night anyways might aswell post my results which are absolutely useless interms of scum hunting, yaaaaaaaaaaay

night one i investigated rafay which died or was lynched (cant remember)

night two i investigated SM, came up as normal student

night three i investigated chap (dead) who was killed by rhizo the same night, he came up as non helpful so yeah i'm not insane

night four, preston, normal.

basically shitty results

Which, Mr. Policeman, we can use your help.

 

your wish has been granted!

 

 

Actually, that helps a lot.

I'll go one further: You are Hermione Granger, a normal Hogwarts Student.

 

Did anyone else catch this? From my understanding if I read this correctly, Maz roleclaimed as a cop. The results? Things we know, except SM and Preston results. I think we need both of those to confirm his results. Theory? We have two scum left, and Maz potential is a fake cop, while FB is the real one. Hence, telling "Dumbledore" that FB got a result from investigating Maz that returned Hermione Granger. Again, this is how I read it, correct me if I'm wrong FB. 

 

That would leave one of the above lying. Maz could have including his scum friend, 2 dead townies, and took a wild card shot in the dark with Preston or SM. Let's not forget scum had a cop on their side as well. He might have gotten results we can't see. I'm not sure I'd write Maz off as confirmed townie until I get FB to clarify I understand his post correctly.

 

On the other hand, Maz could be telling the truth and have 2 options. 1) FB is scum covering his tracks. 2) FB is townie and fake claiming to draw mafia attention away from Maz. I don't find scenario two helpful. If that is what you did, it draws doubt on Maz. If Maz is telling the truth we can write SM and Preston off as townie, narrowing down our search.

 

Now, Preston brought up the two dead. That is the biggest game-changer from the night. I spent a bit reading over the MafiaWiki and back on the thread. I have a few scenarios ranked in order of what I believe happened.

 

1) KevinH was a WEAK Tracker. Can admin clarify if we'd be informed in the event that KevinH had a weak modifier? The point I see in a weak tracker? His death proves townies. Preston, SM, and Isoc. All targetted. If Kevin was weak, he would have died upon one of those investigations. Did he track a mafia member and die? The only thing throwing me off is the two deaths from the prior day. Did Rhizo really use his JoAT ability to kill Canik? (or CoD, I honestly can't remember who got voted and who got killed.) or do we have scenario two in play?

 

2) Serial Killer! A good SK stays in the shadows til the end of the game is near. A SK coming out too quick would enable a hunt for a SK. Here, Death, is where you fit into my equation. Your rapid defense makes me think this is your position. You don't strike me too hard reading over as a Mafia-vibe, but a lone-wolf. A SK. I can see. I think anyone can give a SK vibe off and your rapid defense did raise a red flag. Did Rhizo really use his ability or did the SK seize an opportunity to remain hidden and utilize a kill? TW has in my experience used modifiers and, not from my experience, but from others experiences, he has utilized the SK role. Both the SK and Weak modifier are listed in his game message. 

 

3) Mafia JoAT. Going back to my theory of yesterday. Do we have 4 mafia with roles? Do we have a Godfather on steroids (Vig, Ninja, etc.) It might have explained why Kevin lived so long. A Mafia with a Ninja (or GF with Ninja abilities if that is possible, I'm not too knowledgeable there.) Why would they fear a tracker? It also would add to the possibility of Maz fake-claiming. A JoAT could have a role-cop ability and discovered SM or Preston's role and been the wildcard added to the list, or both. Mafia only need one alive to win I believe, so Maz could be asserting "absolutely town" vibes and secure the game for them.

 

The two kills have definitely changed the game, as well as FB's reply to Maz. I beleive we have the three possibilities I've listed and I feel the game depends on which one we ultimately decide to pursue. Again, I ranked them in order of what I believe happened. Having had a modified role role in prior games, Scenario one is my most suspect as I know TW uses those. 

 

 

Death nobody accused you of anything, sounds like a scum covering up his tracks...
Preston, SM, Finster, and me and Maz are town... let me count up
Ali, Death, King-Samus, iSoc...

But of course, godfather etc

So make the most of tonight, try iSoc maybe. Or King Hitler - Samus
But don't forget the godfather.

How about a role claim from any of those above 4 that are not basically confirmed townie?

Anything to make us believe you are town? We need info...

Thanks mazu
All I have to say gnight

 

A role claim? That is pretty suspicion Lego. You role-claimed extremely early as a VT. Unless I missed something, no cop investigated you. no one confirmed that role claim. To add yourself to the list of confirmed townies, where some have not been truly confirmed. Then to ask for a role claim? This makes me think a highly unlikely scenario, but I'd like my thoughts expressed until I hit something on the head and die tonight.

 

You, FB, and Maz are scum. FB comes off as a town to me, but I don't believe any of you are confirmed. With 18 people, a scum team of 5 people might not be unlikely. Doubtful, but again, I'd like my thoughts expressed. 

Step 1) Maz role claims

Step 2) FB challenges said claim. 

Result in this scenario? One is lynched, the other is confirmed. Mafia victory as no one would lynch them.

Step 3) Lego ask for confirmation of Roles. The real cop may still be hiding and mafia would definitely want to get rid of him. Especially if Town lynch one of the two above, cop investigates the other, and the plan comes crumbling down. Lego would try to get the real cop to come out. With a scum role cop, they would know Preston and SM are town. The only ones left are myself, Ali, Death, and Isoc.

 

Again, these are ALL theoretical possibilities. A habit of mine (OOC: Theoretical physics is the major I'm pursuing, so possibilities fascinate me.)

 

With scenario one, being the most likely in my book. My FOS would be on Death.

 

I would like to hear everyone's replies before I cast a vote. At this stage of the game, things can end very fast as votes accumulate fast. I'd like to remind everyone we need all the time in days to discuss at this stage. Ending a day early is only good if we are 100% sure of a scum (day Rhizo RC'ed for example.) Use your votes wisely.

[SeaBeeGipson]

Addeumun: I realize I FOS Death based on Scenario one, but I meant to include Scenario two as well. 

Scenario 1 would narrow the search to a few people, death being one of them.

Scenario two, Death feels to be the most SK-like to me. I can't explain why, but reading over, I get more of a vibe from him than others. This alone isn't enough to convince me, but both scenarios and the quick defense do grab my attention. 

 

As far as your defense that you mention to Lego, backtracking is not unheard of. Making an excuse for a behavior doesn't mark you off instantly.

 

Edit: The word "Until" when responding to Lego was suppose to be in case. Not sure how they interchanged between those. Sorry for the book guys.

[D34THBR1NG3R]

It's actually quite comical to me that you are blaming me of all of this from me being defensive. Because we ALL know someone was eventually going to say how I was voting for both Wolfpacks and 1ceCream so I decided to defend myself before a wagon started. But since it's later i the game and people are panicking they use every little tid bit of any information that might possibly be considered suspicious, and roll with it.

 

King Hitler I myself cannot see how I seem to be a lone wolf to you... I'm not sure if you're aware but a lone wolf keeps to himself and that's the exact opposite of what I've been doing this entire game, if anything I probably have the most posts after lego. Also, a lone wolf has his own opinions and doesn't sway with the crowd, in which it's very hard for me to determine my own opinions because this is my first game (you said before if you didn't know if it was my first game) and I'm trying to learn the ropes on play styles and how people react when they're scum or town. So for me, that whole "you seem like a lone wolf" thing is complete bs and should be treated as such.

FoS King Hitler

Addeumun: I realize I FOS Death based on Scenario one, but I meant to include Scenario two as well. 

Scenario 1 would narrow the search to a few people, death being one of them.

Scenario two, Death feels to be the most SK-like to me. I can't explain why, but reading over, I get more of a vibe from him than others. This alone isn't enough to convince me, but both scenarios and the quick defense do grab my attention. 

 

As far as your defense that you mention to Lego, backtracking is not unheard of. Making an excuse for a behavior doesn't mark you off instantly.

 

Edit: The word "Until" when responding to Lego was suppose to be in case. Not sure how they interchanged between those. Sorry for the book guys.

I'd like to see where I said that it would automatically get me off of the hook please. And i never said it was unheard of either... you just love putting words in my mouth don't you? All I said was that anyone scum or not, if they were accused of that would probably offer up the same defense I did so there's no reason for you to pick at straws. Again, you love putting words in my mouth.

 

Also, you said above that you agree with Finster that I came off defensive very quick. You don't need to agree, anyone including me could've told you that was defensive because well... it was, obviously defenses are supposed to be defensive, at least that's what I've gathered over my life time

[SeaBeeGipson]

(I had been writing a reply and my 2 year old unplugged the computer.)

 

 

 

Death nobody accused you of anything, sounds like a scum covering up his tracks..

sounds like people here aren't big on reading explanations  

 

 

let me count up Ali, Death, King-Samus, iSoc... But of course, godfather etc So make the most of tonight, try iSoc maybe. Or King Hitler - Samus But don't forget the godfather. How about a role claim from any of those above 4 that are not basically confirmed townie?

 i already role claimed 

 

 

The "Sounds like people here aren't big on reading explanations" was perceived as you trying to trying to come across as having already defended yourself and no one should bring it up again. Perceived. not actual words, but a lot of this game is perception. 

The "I already role-claimed" is more something I'd like to bring up with Lego and his supposed "confirmed townie list." I'd rather not venture into that in case you are town, Lego is scum and you give him any ammo to defend himself.

 

I also stated I was unaware if this is your first game or not. The FoS was more based on the persumption you were more experienced. I couldn't see a more experienced player coming off so defensively so quick as a townie. You can see the problems that arise from it.

 

Having said that, the theory of a SK. A lone-wolf in terms of the SK would not stay quiet and argue with the crowds movements. A common tactic would be to be active and follow the crowd. By doing so, less attention gets drawn to you. It's easy to stay off scum and town radars when you follow the crowd. One way or another, everyone does it. By seeing you exhibit those behaviors, it felt you were more experienced and would fall under the SK radar for me. Again, most of it was from you coming off as a more experienced player. 

 

What does grab my attention is out of a list of people I named as possible scum, the only factor you brought up is how I specifically FoS you.

 

Lego was a new player and scum last game and followed that same thing. Becoming overly defensive upon a simple FoS. While I do give you the benefit of the doubt knowing you are brand new to this, the red flags just keep popping up for me.

 

Care to weigh in on why you think there were two kills?

[D34THBR1NG3R]

I really don't know the type of roles games like this have, I'm used to town of salem where you can just google what roles do so either IMO there's a vig that no one wants to own up to for killing a townie or there is a SK (which i didn't even know this game had) again, I don't really know what these roles can do so that's all I can offer for discussion

[Preston]

With Mazuurek's role claim as the cop, that brings the list of Town roles to Cop, Watcher, Tracker, Doctor, JoAT - five thus far. Unless someone counter-claims as cop I am inclined to believe Mazu's claim - doubly so since if it's real he will likely end up the scum's target tonight, which would remove all doubt going forward.

It's unfortunate that two of Mazu's four investigations are already dead, though it does prove his cop sanity - what his claim gives us are two 'normal' results to try and narrow the search for the remaining scum. Normal caveat applies that either SM or I could be a Godfather, but at minimum neither of us are scum with an active role - i.e. not the scum ninja or JoAT/vig.

The current theory seems to be that there are five scum, so three remain to find. If one is a godfather and would show up as normal, the other two would not - hence we can look for the other two out of the nine of us that remain.

Finster's claim as a VT... doesn't really affect the suspect list at all, unless we have a sixth role in the shadows able to weigh in on that.

We haven't seen Ali or iSocialism speak yet today, so let's get their thoughts on what's happened so far.

My current highest suspect remains iSocialism, but I'm still evaluating King Hitler's takeover from Samus.

In terms of King Hitler's multiple walls of texts, he has more than I can parse tonight but he DID have a good analysis of what could have led to two deaths last night. The potential for KevinH to have been a WEAK tracker is interesting, but that feels unlikely to me... even though if it were true that would fully prove SM and I town. My one addendum to KH's scenario is that Rhizo's JoAT Vig kill is indeed a valid reason for CoD to have died on N3 - I had previously thought Rhizo roleclaiming meant he gave up the chance to use his vig kill because scum would kill him first, but according to the wiki all kill attempts on a given night fire at the same time: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Natural_Action_Resolution

As for D34TH's defense, I'll respond to this because it seems to be becoming a topic of conversation:

you know what they say, better to be safe than sorry... And what would you have liked me to say... nothing? and then when I would be accused I would say the same thing, so there's no other avenues for defense for me here

Given that everyone was largely agreed on picking 1cecream yesterday, no one person really stood out more than another at today's start. If you had not spoken up this strongly about the /reasons/ why it wouldn't make sense to suspect you based on 1cecream being town, I don't think anyone would have looked at you specifically and instead discussion would have focused around testing other scum suspects first. So in short yes, saying nothing (or at least not that much of a preemptive defense) is what I would have expected.

Also you can very much google what roles do in this game, and most results will take you to the mafiascum wiki: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Category:Roles_Main_Page

If any of TW's listed possible roles aren't clear to you, search it on that wiki.

-Preston

[Finster Baby]

King: You are incorrect. I am not claiming role as cop. I am claiming Hermonie Granger, a normal student. That's all.

That with Maz's investigations can give us a pretty good idea who is still scum. By my count, there's 2 to 3 left.

[Sister Midnight]

hi, this is dumbledore, since i'm probably going to go this night anyways might aswell post my results which are absolutely useless interms of scum hunting, yaaaaaaaaaaay
night one i investigated rafay which died or was lynched (cant remember)
night two i investigated SM, came up as normal student
night three i investigated chap (dead) who was killed by rhizo the same night, he came up as non helpful so yeah i'm not insane
night four, preston, normal.
basically shitty results

Which, Mr. Policeman, we can use your help.

 
your wish has been granted!

That was very helpful, actually, I was almost certainly going to vote for Preston (who may be a ninja, but...), but he now drops down a bit and ISoc rises to the top.

[SeaBeeGipson]

King: You are incorrect. I am not claiming role as cop. I am claiming Hermonie Granger, a normal student. That's all.

That with Maz's investigations can give us a pretty good idea who is still scum. By my count, there's 2 to 3 left.

Gotcha. Reading back, I get how it was suppose to come across. The "You are" part confused me. 

 

I'm still a little weary as scum had a role cop, but Maz would've been challenged by now. The only possibility is cop has yet to respond today.

 

I'm fairly certain Maz is town at this point. Which means we can write Preston and SM off the list for sure.

 

 

I really don't know the type of roles games like this have, I'm used to town of salem where you can just google what roles do so either IMO there's a vig that no one wants to own up to for killing a townie or there is a SK (which i didn't even know this game had) again, I don't really know what these roles can do so that's all I can offer for discussion

Never played ToS, so I'm not sure the differences. But Preston made a good point. The MafiaWiki is fairly helpful and TW hasn't done anything that can't be searched there. It might be a good place to learn about the SK role as the possibility of a SK is fairly high. I'm still under the impression of a Weak modifier, but wouldn't write SK off.

[Preston]

That was very helpful, actually, I was almost certainly going to vote for Preston (who may be a ninja, but...), but he now drops down a bit and ISoc rises to the top.

Slight correction - neither SM or I can be a ninja since that would have shown as scum to a cop. We could be a godfather however.

-Preston

[Ali bin Turban]

As for the double kill:

 - I find SK theory unlikely. Watcher was taken out on first night. Tracker was identified on D2. If SK was afraid of being spotted he could take KevinH out on N2 / N3. Yet KevinH lived for so long without any protection.

 

- I don't believe in "weak" modifier. It's a role modifier and I'm pretty sure we'd have seen it (just like we saw another role modifier: "3-shot" upon CoD's death). Secondly that modifier is extremely important and KevinH would surely mentioned that before, as it would basically confirm SM, Preston as townies. Yet he didn't do that. Thirdly claiming this might be a weak role in play could be implicit try to confirm iSoc who was also investigated by KevinH.

 

 - I don't believe our Vig doing it - Wolfpack / KevinH were already confirmed and I don't remember anyone having something against them.

 

 - I'm pretty sure mafia has their own JOAT and it was his doing. I remember from CN game where TW got the rule that mafia JOAT was allowed to make a kill no sooner than on a fourth night (and in that case TW let them do it faster for balance purposes)...and it seems it's the same here. Also I'm starting to think mafia can actually have just 4 members - we saw Role Cop, Strongman, most probably JOAT and there's someone else. If there are 4 PR's for mafia then their lesser number would be justified (especially that Town team wasn't that strong: Watcher, Tracker, Doctor, Cop, JOAT - similar to the last setup, with the difference of JOAT replacing Role Cop, while mafia got only Ninja, Godfather and +2 goons then).

 

As for current situation:

Wolfpacks, Mazuurek, Ali bin Turban, KevinH, legoboyvdlp : We've lost 2 confirmed townies. Mazuurek has RCed, lego did so too. I could RC too, but since I've nothing to report I don't want to turn it into mass claim, which is not allowed.
 

 

Were left with (I've sorted them from the most to the least scummy):

- iSocialism - nothing has changed in my view about him.

- King Hitler - I'm not to thrilled by his walls of text. To much information there I find misleading. A lot of "what if confirmed townies are scums" and iSoc mentioned only in a scenario where he's confirmed by a weak tracker (and this is the one KH claims to be most probable). I must say I don't like that "new opening" he's trying to create where everyone is considered suspect.

- D34THBR1NG3R - claims he claimed his role (but I don't remember it). Preemptive defense, but it's definitely not enough to get him into the top of scum list.

- Preston - confirmed by Mazuurek, can still be godfather (then SM is confirmed)

- Finster Baby - VT claim

- Sister Midnight - confirmed by Mazuurek, can still be godfather (then Preston is confirmed), but I find it unlikely.

- Ali bin Turban - Voted on Canik before RC, persuaded town to take out CoD - thus confirmed.

- Mazuurek - Voted on Canik before RC, claimed Cop - thus confirmed

- legoboyvdlp - Scums voted on him multiple of times (Canik / CoD) - thus confirmed.
 

I'm less concerned by the bottom 6 a the moment. We are still in comfortable situation. Assuming less favorable scenario of 6 vs 3 we still can make one mistake. That means, unless FB or SM are scums we're still good and can follow scenario of voting most scummy person on the list till we eliminate all scums...therefore:

 

vote iSocialism

[Finster Baby]

My name is Finster Baby and I support Ali's position.

VOTE: iSocialism