926 replies to this topic

[D34THBR1NG3R]

@Ali since you don't remember my role claim I said I was nearly headless nick, a regular townie (not exact words)

[Ali bin Turban]

Ah, ok. I remember someone mentioning near headless nick...I didn't take it as a role claim then. Could you also remind me why did you make that claim back then?

[The Warrior]

"THE CHAMBER OF SECRETS HAS BEEN OPENED ENEMIES OF THE HEIR BEWARE"

 

Vote Count

 

iSocialism (2): Ali bin Turban, Finster Baby

Ali bin Turban (0):

D34THBR1NG3R (0):

Finster Baby (0):

King Hitler (0):

legoboyvdlp (0):

Mazuurek (0):

Preston (0):

Sister Midnight (0):

 

No Lynch (0):

Not voting: D34THBR1NG3R, iSocialism, King Hitler, legoboyvdlp, Mazuurek, Preston, Sister Midnight

 

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch or 3 at deadline.
Deadline is 12:00pm CST on Wednesday, September 14th.

[D34THBR1NG3R]

Ah, ok. I remember someone mentioning near headless nick...I didn't take it as a role claim then. Could you also remind me why did you make that claim back then?

That was when I said that Finster was confirmed town then changed it by saying he had a townie vibe to me and people were very annoyed at that statement, so I didn't want people to get a train going on me and not scum so I RC'd 

[legoboyvdlp]

So you are a 'normal hogwarts ghost' then?

 

I was wrong about 1ceCream, thus I feel it would be safer not to try and push too hard on someone that could be town like D34TH (mostly convinced, not totally), but until further notice, 'voting on the scummiest of the three' sounds like a good plan and I'l bandwagon with the third vote.

 

Vote: iSoc

 

And yes, iSoc, I vote on anything that makes sense to me

[D34THBR1NG3R]

So you are a 'normal hogwarts ghost' then?

 Indeed

[iSocialism]

There is nothing that I can say or do now that will get you people to change your mind.

Fair warning, AbT is the only player that has not been investigated. Wonder who he is, and wondering where the second kill came from.

[Preston]

With the name it was easier to search for where D34TH claimed before, and I'll link the quote here for everyone.

I told you no one thinks it holds water, but that's what an opinion is, something that someone believes. Thus the reason I said I won't share opinions again. As for my role I'm Nearly Headless nick, a ghost... boo!

This post did not appear to make an impression at the time - I don't think anyone said the phrase 'vanilla townie' in reference to him that I can see, and 'ghost' is not a role I recognize (nor is it one TW has listed). Had he said 'normal' in there that might have added more context.

At this point we now also have three votes on iSocialism, which is enough for lynch at deadline. While iSocialism remains my current top suspect, I'm going to withhold my vote for the moment for two reasons: 1) he hasn't spoken yet today, and I'd like to hear at least SOMETHING from him first. I see him viewing the thread right now, so hopefully I won't have to wait long. 2) only five votes needed to end the day, which means another vote puts him at L-1 which is "oops I didnt mean to hammer" territory - doubly so if someone else posts while I'm writing this. However you can consider this me stating my intent to vote for iSocialism unless something changes.

At present my second suspect is somewhere between King Hitler and D34TH.
* KH has posted a LOT since joining, and much of it is well structured analysis - however he's throwing a lot of suspicion at Lego and D34TH.
** Prior to KH, Samus made a point of suspecting anyone who accused Lego - KH does not seem to share that philosophy.
** The fact that KH is FoS'ing D34TH somewhat pits them against each other, though I would not rule out a distancing tactic at this stage of the game.

* D34TH's early defense this day did not mean much on its own; however he reacted strongly when I pointed out that it was a WIFOM statement. Referring to his original 'role claim' has caused an additional look at it, wherein I see he did not put 'normal' on his ghost and remember his 'Proven town' comment from earlier in the game. None of this is definitive, but it's got him vying with KH for the #2 suspect slot.

Let's see what else happens before we wrap up today, I want to see where this discussion goes - and hear more from Mazuurek, who may well be the scum target tonight if his claim is true.

-Preston

[Preston]

Looks like iSocialism did post while I was posting. He tries to throw suspicion onto AbT, but I find his claim that AbT is the only one not investigated so far to be curious - we havent had THAT many investigations this game.

Kevin tracked SM N1, Preston N2, iSocialism N3
Mazuurek investigated Rafay N1, SM N2, CoD N3, Preston N4
Rhizo investigated Canik N2, unknown what he did N1

Based on that, here is what remains:
iSocialism : KevinH Tracked
Ali bin Turban : not investigated
D34THBR1NG3R : not investigated, claimed VT D2
Finster Baby : not investigated, claimed VT D5
King Hitler : not investigated
legoboyvdlp : not investigated, claimed VT D1
Mazuurek : Claimed cop D5
Preston : KevinH Tracked, Mazuurek Investigated
Sister Midnight : KevinH Tracked, Mazuurek Investigated

So am I missing something - why is AbT the "only player who has not been investigated"? Or were you incorporating other methods of proving to eliminate everyone else?

-Preston

[SeaBeeGipson]

 

So you are a 'normal hogwarts ghost' then?

 Indeed

 

I just wanted to say I find TW clever here for calling everyone but headless nick a Student, then throwing him in as a ghost. 

 

As for Preston's analysis of both myself and Death. I'll leave Death to defend himself.

1) You mention how myself and Samus do not share the same philosophy regarding Lego. I don't know Samus's thinking or why he had that position. Since I joined and reading over Lego has felt scum, but mentioning this seemed to be a death sentence. Why? Is it the same reasoning skills that led to IceCream being killed? Follow the crowd? I need more proof on Lego than a skeptical role claim and barely much evidence. Having played scum last game, scum doesn't have a problem voting another scum off. If your defense to Lego is "scum voted him" the town is going to have a hard game. I know because I voted Lego (early on a wagon, mind you) last game. That isn't enough to convince me.

 

2) I really don't have a solid response to this. Death, I mentioned, is suspicion to me. As the day progresses, however, it looks like my initial suspicion is feeling wrong. I am getting less of a scum vibe for Death (despite his strong, rapid defensive tactics.) As mentioned at the beginning, the play on student vs ghost is clever. Clever in a way that makes me second guess Death's scumvibe. I'm not saying he isn't intelligent enough to do that on his own, I am saying why risk having attention brought on someone (take Icecream for example) by putting a role claim that differs from other people? With that being said, I don't have a strong response to #2 because I can see how coming off at the start of the day in an argument and slowly progressing to where I am now can look like scum distancing themselves.

 

 

As for a few people mentioning my supposed silence on Isocialism, I stated his play style is one of the hardest for me to read. He tends to stay quiet (Rafay style) and towards the end come out in a big bang, very vocal and contributes to the game. With the cop having role claimed, Isocialism isn't using this tactic to protect himself as a cop. I've lynched Isocialism more than most people because of his tactics in previous games. However, most the time, he comes up townie and I feel like an idiot. I will agree this far into the game, his attempt to throw shade towards AbT is questionable. Most people have claimed this game, but not been confirmed. My issue is just that. People seem to be taking claims as confirms.

 

At this point, Maz, SM, and Preston are the only confirmed townies. Isocialism may have avoided the track by being the godfather or ninla. Depending what roles we have this game. Death, despite starting at the bottom of my town list, is moving his way towards with that ghost comment. It doesn't confirm him as it might've been a fairly clever move, but I believe he wouldn't have risked it if it was intentional. Finister and AbT have the higher town-vibes out of the unconfirmed for me. Lego I've already added my concerns about. The requesting a role claim may be an attempt to find any remaining power roles. I had the initial thought this game was VT heavy, but if scum have 4 PRs (Cop, Strongman, Ninja "suspected", and JoAT "Suspected") why would town not by PR heavy? Adding himself to his confirmed townie list (something I do when I'm scum) struck me on the wrong cord as well.

 

 

EDIT: double posted my response.

[Ali bin Turban]

@ISoc here said he believes I honestly think he is a scum (http://ironcentral.org/community/topic/57842-tw-03-harry-potter-and-the-chamber-of-secrets-mafia-day-5/page-35#entry878036)...which by extension means he claimed that he knows / believes I'm a town ... yet now he throws some odd accusations.

 

@KH you've made very interesting post that I think will enormously help town, even though I believe that was not your goal.

 

 1. KH you've voted on Lego only because you admitted that you were #2 suspect and it looked like Lego was already on the chopping block <- these are your own words. Don't try turning it into "scums normally do vote on other scums in order to lynch them" scenario, because it's a lie.

 2. I'm curious why do you believe SM and Preston are confirmed while in the very next sentence you speculate about godfather...though you don't seem to believe to much in godfather thing since you've believe there are: (Cop, Strongman, Ninja "suspected", and JoAT "Suspected") - and no, 4 PR mafia team does not mean town have more roles, because there are more VT to balance things (14 town vs 4 mafia) - so I believe there are no more PR among town.

Apparently you've also gave JOAT possibility some credit. Last time it was on the bottom of your "possible events" list (below the "weak tracker" and SK scenarios).

 

Also why don't you go ahead and give us your scum suspect list? I'm pretty sure everyone here (well, except iSoc...who even admitted, that he's not able to give out his scum suspects) could do it. Your last list of scum/unsure that consisted of (1ceCream, AbT, iSoc, Wolfpack) seems to be little outdated... but let me try to do it for you:

 

Mazuurek - confirmed in your opinion

SM - confirmed in your opinion

Preston - confirmed in your opinion

Finster - highest town vibes out of unconfirmed

AbT - highest town vibes out of unconfirmed

Death - you don't believe him to be a scum (he wouldn't risk it in your opinion to claim being a ghost)

KH - well, that's you.

iSoc - you don' want to say who do you think he is

Lego - he must be a scum, right? There's noone else left to suspect.

 

So who's actually the mafia in your opinion?

[SeaBeeGipson]

@ISoc here said he believes I honestly think he is a scum (http://ironcentral.org/community/topic/57842-tw-03-harry-potter-and-the-chamber-of-secrets-mafia-day-5/page-35#entry878036)...which by extension means he claimed that he knows / believes I'm a town ... yet now he throws some odd accusations.

 

@KH you've made very interesting post that I think will enormously help town, even though I believe that was not your goal.

 

 1. KH you've voted on Lego only because you admitted that you were #2 suspect and it looked like Lego was already on the chopping block <- these are your own words. Don't try turning it into "scums normally do vote on other scums in order to lynch them" scenario, because it's a lie.

 2. I'm curious why do you believe SM and Preston are confirmed while in the very next sentence you speculate about godfather...though you don't seem to believe to much in godfather thing since you've believe there are: (Cop, Strongman, Ninja "suspected", and JoAT "Suspected") - and no, 4 PR mafia team does not mean town have more roles, because there are more VT to balance things (14 town vs 4 mafia) - so I believe there are no more PR among town.

Apparently you've also gave JOAT possibility some credit. Last time it was on the bottom of your "possible events" list (below the "weak tracker" and SK scenarios).

 

Also why don't you go ahead and give us your scum suspect list? I'm pretty sure everyone here (well, except iSoc...who even admitted, that he's not able to give out his scum suspects) could do it. Your last list of scum/unsure that consisted of (1ceCream, AbT, iSoc, Wolfpack) seems to be little outdated... but let me try to do it for you:

 

Mazuurek - confirmed in your opinion

SM - confirmed in your opinion

Preston - confirmed in your opinion

Finster - highest town vibes out of unconfirmed

AbT - highest town vibes out of unconfirmed

Death - you don't believe him to be a scum (he wouldn't risk it in your opinion to claim being a ghost)

KH - well, that's you.

iSoc - you don' want to say who do you think he is

Lego - he must be a scum, right? There's noone else left to suspect.

 

So who's actually the mafia in your opinion?

1) *for those unaware, those were my words in the mafia chat last game* - I did vote lego last game out of my only option. The thing was it was a point brought up last game by other players that scum have and do cast off members, even outside of the situation I was in last game. 

2) From my understanding, a ninja can be found by the cops, but not tracker. Therefore Kevin couldn't confirm Isoc being town. A GF either has one ability or the other, ability to avoid tracker or cop, as far as I'm understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Maz and Kevin together should confirm SM and Preston. Isocialism, however, was not confirmed by Maz, only Kevin. Odd ball out = possible scum.

As for the "possible" situations, that post was under the assumption that FB had challenged Maz's claim and D34th being my #1 suspect, so a few thoughts had changed. I did mention them all being possible situations, however, which means all should be taken into account? Don't you agree? Or should someone focus on one possibility and place all his rocks in one basket?

 

As for the list, you nailed my opinion, outside a few areas.

Mazuurek - confirmed in your opinion

SM - confirmed in your opinion

Preston - confirmed in your opinion

Finster - 2nd highest town vibes out of unconfirmed

AbT -  1st highest town vibes out of unconfirmed

Death - you don't believe him to be a scum (he wouldn't risk it/knew in your opinion to claim being a ghost) 

KH - well, that's you. (or KevinH )

iSoc - you don' want to say who do you think he is - As the game progresses, he comes more and more scum-like. By this point, I'd expected to see more from him. 

Lego - he must be a scum, right? There's noone else left to suspect. Essentially yes. If we agree Isoc would come up scum, it leaves you, FB, and Lego. Lego, the least likely to be town out of the three. under the assumption we have 4 scum.

[iSocialism]

@ISoc here said he believes I honestly think he is a scum (http://ironcentral.org/community/topic/57842-tw-03-harry-potter-and-the-chamber-of-secrets-mafia-day-5/page-35#entry878036)...which by extension means he claimed that he knows / believes I'm a town ... yet now he throws some odd accusations.

 

@KH you've made very interesting post that I think will enormously help town, even though I believe that was not your goal.

 

 1. KH you've voted on Lego only because you admitted that you were #2 suspect and it looked like Lego was already on the chopping block <- these are your own words. Don't try turning it into "scums normally do vote on other scums in order to lynch them" scenario, because it's a lie.

 2. I'm curious why do you believe SM and Preston are confirmed while in the very next sentence you speculate about godfather...though you don't seem to believe to much in godfather thing since you've believe there are: (Cop, Strongman, Ninja "suspected", and JoAT "Suspected") - and no, 4 PR mafia team does not mean town have more roles, because there are more VT to balance things (14 town vs 4 mafia) - so I believe there are no more PR among town.

Apparently you've also gave JOAT possibility some credit. Last time it was on the bottom of your "possible events" list (below the "weak tracker" and SK scenarios).

 

Also why don't you go ahead and give us your scum suspect list? I'm pretty sure everyone here (well, except iSoc...who even admitted, that he's not able to give out his scum suspects) could do it. Your last list of scum/unsure that consisted of (1ceCream, AbT, iSoc, Wolfpack) seems to be little outdated... but let me try to do it for you:

 

Mazuurek - confirmed in your opinion

SM - confirmed in your opinion

Preston - confirmed in your opinion

Finster - highest town vibes out of unconfirmed

AbT - highest town vibes out of unconfirmed

Death - you don't believe him to be a scum (he wouldn't risk it in your opinion to claim being a ghost)

KH - well, that's you.

iSoc - you don' want to say who do you think he is

Lego - he must be a scum, right? There's noone else left to suspect.

 

So who's actually the mafia in your opinion?

You keep trying to paint yourself as town. A little overbearing as well. Why Kevin, I mean why push yourself as town so hard.

[Preston]

You keep trying to paint yourself as town. A little overbearing as well. Why Kevin, I mean why push yourself as town so hard.

Ali is certainly being aggressive, as he was attacking me on D1. There is always the danger that a scum could end up taking the lead and funneling town votes to end the game, but at this stage it will be difficult to confirm AbT. You said Kevin instead of King Hitler though.

Also @iSoc: will you please clarify your earlier statement about AbT being "the only player who has not been investigated"? Per my earlier post the only people still alive who have had ANY investigations on them are SM, Preston, and iSocialism - all others are dead at this point.

I want to hear more about where this train of thought goes, and I also want to hear more from Mazuurek before the day ends - your scum suspect thoughts and opinions.

-Preston

[iSocialism]

Nope I meant kevin.

[Ali bin Turban]

@ iSoc if that's all you got on your defense it's a little to little. I'm not trying to paint anything. I'm using facts and logic.

 

Let's assume for a moment I'm a scum: Why would I push for a lynch of my fellow scum mate Canik? Let's say I was soooo smart that I've realized Rhizo get an investigation on him before he RCed. Ok...but why would I push for a kill of my other scum mate - CoD? Rhizo's main suspects were Canik and 1ceCream...I could easily play Rhizo into wasting his Vigilante shot on 1ceCream...yet I decided to push for CoD (and that's another scum dead + lost 3rd investigation chance to find a cop). So I'm so smart for jumping Canik at the right moment, yet so foolish at the same time for wasting CoD's potential?

 

Same goes for Lego. He was never a lost cause. There were town defending him, there were town fighting each other over him...and yet we saw scum jumping on his wagon on D2...and what's more on D3 we saw scum trying to start wagon on him. Why would scum decide to sacrifice one of their own when there was no need to do so (none of them was in danger)?

 

Scum want to win too and they will use tactics that will grant them victory and not some gimmicks that defy the rules of rational behavior and will fail 9 times out of 10. 

 

 

Lego - he must be a scum, right? There's noone else left to suspect. Essentially yes. If we agree Isoc would come up scum, it leaves you, FB, and Lego. Lego, the least likely to be town out of the three. under the assumption we have 4 scum.

 

Actually there's one more person - you. You're much less likely to be a town than Lego and Finster therefore you're the next logical target when/after Isoc come up scum.

[iSocialism]

Let put it this way just because you claim your not scum doesn't make you town. If I was scum I wouldn't go after Kevin who voting pattern wasn't showing a threat to anyone. If I was a SK on the other hand I would love to have the town believe since I'm not scum I must be town.

Vote AbT

If the scum had a JOAT I don't think they would have let their role block go to waste , and most likely would have use it on rhiz. Anyone downplaying a sk, most likely doesn't want the town to believe there is a sk, and yes vi versa. You might say I'm just throwing a wild card out there, so I wont be lynched...

Now that two scum has been eliminated, and the roles are being found out, and for a second the looks of a cop didn't seem to exist. It would have been a perfect time for the sk to come out starting night killing and blaming it on the scum. His only obstacle would not being targeted for a lynched or a night killed. Not being targeted is easy, vote and show people that you are taking out scum. Not being night killed is just by luck, maybe a BP mod to help. With the scum team most likely having a ninja there was no need to take out Kevin for the threat of his role. Using the night kill could be easy. Knowing how many scum and who is the harder part. Why not take out another scum and claimed Vig? Because, you can't keep killing afterwards. The more X-shot the more far fetch the sk role becomes. In the past TW has limited the vig JOAT kill to night four, but rhiz used his on the 3ed night, and the scum wouldn't want to lose it before they used it. It looked clear for the sk to come out, people would think it was another scum, it didn't look like there was any more roles and most were in the known. CoD was the scum cop, so his investigations would still be known by the scum team. Throwing out a scum JOAT would mean that those investigate by Kevin would be mostly likely in the clear of not being one, it's not immune by cop investigations. I believe there is a sk, and he's trying to hide among the town without being noticed.

[Ali bin Turban]

If I was scum I wouldn't go after Kevin who voting pattern wasn't showing a threat to anyone

 

 

Except CoD was a scum and he voted for KevinH ...so it's poor argument.

 

However this SK thought has a merit - even though you use it to as an excuse to attack me (since apparently you can't accuse me of acting against town). Also it does not change the fact that there are still scum around and you're most probably one of them.

 

 

But let's think about this situation. What if actually there's a SK.We got double kill on night 3 and double kill on night 4. What could that mean? Generally there are 2 possibilities (well, there are some variations which are much less possible, so I'll omit them right now)

 1. First possibility: Rhizo didn't perform the night kill on N4 and mafia does not have JOAT. That means with 100% certainty that SK does exists.

 2. Second possibility: Rhizo performed his night kill, therefore it's much less likely for SK to exists and second kill was performed on N4 by scum JOAT.

 

So why wouldn't Rhizo be able to perform a vigilante kill?

So far we've seen constraints laid upon scum JOAT and we don't know how that applies to town's one (they're totally different: scum know his targets, town does not and can kill his own by mistake). What's more Rhizo has admitted himself that his plan was to lynch 1ceCream during day and kill Canik at night. It would be stupid to plan something he had no chance to implement. Also if that's no secret knowledge @TW could let us know if town JOAT does have any constraints.

 

Let's assume for a moment that Rhizo was able to make a vig kill. Why wasn't he stopped? There are several possibilities:

  - Scum JOAT has used his roleblock already (this however might not be a case due to the very last point of my post)

  - Scum didn't realize town JOAT can make a kill faster than on 4th night

  - Scum thought he was going to kill 1ceCream.

 

Let's assume for a moment that there is indeed SK in game. Problem is we don't have any tools to find him - mafia is his enemy too, so he can very well act pro town during day (and kill anyone during night). He may also have investigation immunity so he can be literally anyone.

 

What are conclusions then?

1. It's not possible to find SK other than making a lucky guess.

2. Chances of finding scum are much higher right now.

3. We don't know if SK exists...but we can verify it: If there will be no double kill on upcoming nights that will mean SK does not exists and additional kills were performed by Rhizo and scum JOAT.

4.One more observation:

I've claimed to be confirmed town (but technically iSoc is right, as along with Lego, we're indeed merely confirmed as anti-scum) - that means I might be town, but I also might be SK (IF this role does exist in our game). Now, iSoc has no way to verify if there's SK in game (best case, we'll know it on the next D)...what's more he's no way to determine who he might be...but still he decides my town-claim is enough proof to lynch me.

 

Is that an action of a careful town, who does not want to misslynch, because he knows each misslynch is a step closer to loosing a game? Or is that an action of a scum who will do anything to defend his life?

 

My vote still stands.

 

 

 

 

 

 

One more thing that iSoc post has reminded me of. It's from Preston's post: http://ironcentral.org/community/topic/57842-tw-03-harry-potter-and-the-chamber-of-secrets-mafia-day-5/page-30#entry876916

 

For that matter, roleclaiming NOW means he may not get to use his vigilante kill
at all... any townie roleclaiming right now KNOWS both doctor and watcher are dead, and therefore their own death is very probable immediately thereafter.

 

Back in that day I let it slip through, because I didn't saw immediately why would Rhizo not be able to use his Vig kill. At that point I didn't knew about any scum roles. However today, knowing scum may have JOAT I'd be concerned too (because Rhizo could be roleblocked for instance). So Preston, why were you concerned about it back in the Day 3??

[legoboyvdlp]

Unvote.

Not certain; can't risk a lynch too early in the day, and I don't quite understand these arguments.

[Preston]

Conversation seems to be slow over the weekend; we've got some back-and-forth with iSoc and AbT, but otherwise people seem quiet.

iSoc has not elaborated about his comment that AbT is the only one not investigated... I'd like to get some kind of follow-up on that. His theory seems to be that a SK must be present, and he is pointing to Ali as a SK candidate. Until the game ends or we see more multi-kill nights we can't KNOW if a SK is present or not, so it's impossible to deny iSoc's rationale - however it amounts to basically a D1-style guessing game. Moreover, starting a wagon to seek a possible SK *now* would amount to giving up the search for scum, and ignoring what investigative evidence we DO have - including from Mazuurek who just claimed today - to sift through townies.

So regardless of the merits that a SK is possible, voting for AbT if you DONT think he is scum feels anti-town to me. If you want to make an argument that he's actually scum then we can examine the merits of that, but otherwise it sounds like the wild card you describe it as.

Ali's response seems to agree that this is a misdirection attempt by iSoc, though it pursues the thought and breaks down the possibilities of there being a SK fairly well. As part of it he points back to something I said when I was examining Rhizo's JoAT claim - the idea that by claiming Rhizo had guaranteed himself being killed immediately and denied himself the plan he stated to use his Vig skill because the scum would target him. At the time my belief was that resolution of night actions would be a race to see who got their action turned in first, however I later read more about JoATs in the wiki and realized that wouldn't be the case after all, as I pointed out to King Hitler earlier when he did his own SK analysis:

My one addendum to KH's scenario is that Rhizo's JoAT Vig kill is indeed a valid reason for CoD to have died on N3 - I had previously thought Rhizo roleclaiming meant he gave up the chance to use his vig kill because scum would kill him first, but according to the wiki all kill attempts on a given night fire at the same time: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Natural_Action_Resolution

While writing this I've realized another point for discussion that may otherwise seem obvious; if there is a SK in the game right now, the only ones to KNOW it for a fact are the scum and the SK themselves. So in the same vein of iSoc's rationale that someone denying a SK's presence too strongly may be an indicator of being a SK, *pushing* a SK's presence too strongly at this point in time could be scum acting on knowledge of the SK's being in the game they have confirmed and the rest of us do not.

Whether a SK is present or not will become clear one way or the other if another night with multiple kills occurs - it cannot be hidden. But I think iSoc is pursuing that possibility too early, and at a time when finding the scum is more important; unless my math is wrong, if three scum remain then we only have two mis-lynches remaining - including today's. So if we seek a SK today - and maybe even FIND them - we will still be at LYLO tomorrow. This makes me see iSoc's AbT-as-SK push in a very scummy light, and largely cements my decision to vote for him unless he can present a more compelling argument.

Also, I understand people are busy over the weekend - but when you get a chance please do post and add your thoughts. We've got nine people alive, but it feels like at least half of those people have been silent for a while now. We can't let anyone take the easy way out by lurking at this stage in the game.

-Preston