661 replies to this topic

[Ali bin Turban]

 

So your going to tell me you didn't push hard to get Robert lynched, you started the wagon and used your considable pursuavsive talents to send him to the gallows or are you denying that. But I wasn't just suspecting you, but all in the Robert Wagon that once again you started

 

Maybe I should feel flattered a little, however it's not true. I know I'm all but persuasive - enough to mention I failed to lead Lego lynch twice last game. I don't think pushing hard for someone to get lynched is a scum-proof (Lego example again?) and I think you know it.

 

Just to sum up, you say I'm a suspect because I wanted to lynch Robert and I pushed hard for it. But then tell me, why were you OK with lynching him then? Also why would you vote on Mandarjin without any serious suspicion, just to, let me quote you, "put him out of his misery"?

It's all here: http://ironcentral.org/community/topic/58337-tw-04-harry-potter-and-the-prisoner-of-azkaban-mafia-day-3/page-11#entry885182

[Sister Midnight]

Sister Midnight, on 19 Oct 2016 - 10:33, said: Robert's role claim is believable to me because Hagrid is such an important flavor character and no one is counter claiming. Robert's style is abrasive and overly intense, which doesn't help him, but based on his claim I am not going to vote for him. Up to now the fake claims have been minor characters, for him to now give major characters as fake claim is a BIG change. Here is where I remind you the scum have had Ron Weasley twice and Harry Potter once as safe claim names - Ron being part of the main protagonist trio and Harry being the title character - Hagrid isn't anything better than those by comparison. This just underscores the point that you cannot read anything into safe claim names, and that relying on them for your defense is worthless at best, scummy at worst. We've had this exact argument during previous games.

 

I forgot about that.  Fair point.  What does TW have against Ron Weasley, anyway?

[Rhizoctonia]

So I have some reading to do.  I apologize to everyone here...I am a strong advocate for activity and people not becoming inactive during Mafia games (it truely ruins the game).  This was an unforeseeable happening with me, as I didn't expect my computer to die on me.  To be honest, someone like myself cannot play mafia using only my phone...as it's great to read things, but actually writing responses it's just not possible as I like to quote things, and honestly I devote a lot of time in writing up my responses that take awhile simply using a computer....using a phone it would take me a day.  I posted here requesting a replacement but unfortunately one wasn't found...and to be frank, after I requested it I honestly paid very littler attention to the game as I didn't expect to be still playing it.  I have been going back and forth on what I wanted to buy since my computer die, from a laptop to a deskop, to a cheaper one to get me by or buy one I really wanted.  But anyway, I do apologize, but if I could of seen into the future that my computer was going to be killed by a surge I would of never signed up.

That being said, I have a lot of catching up to do from after I requested a replacement.  I have only skimmed responses to this point, some today some as last day happened just to see what was happening but not really divulging into what was being said.  My take, at this point, from this, is that Robert did seem a bit suspicious and worthy to be called out.  He was passionate about his replies, and from someone who is very similar, I get at times that can come off scummy.  I see some reasons to suspect him however his RC would of at least made me rethink voting him off, and I would of likely gone with killing off an inactive player/ones asking for a replacement (Myself/Mand/Maz) since we weren't going to be of much help, and finding 3 replacements for a game this size would of been hard to do as many of the main players already are in it.  Seems that was close to happening with Mand vote.

The 2 people who caught my eye while skimming was D34th and King.  D34th for his removal of his vote on Kevin and the comments following, and King for really pushing it seemed to get Robert voted off, along with Robert speaking from the grave when his last response or so was suspecting King and ABT.  

 

 

D34th's unvote on Kevin wasn't really that startling...though he did so and if I see correctly, never put his vote on anyone else or suspected anyone else by the end of the day.  He was the only one who didn't vote, besides SM, who wasn't inactive.  D34ths responses to King after King H questioned him about his unvote seemed rather defensive in my opinion, especially getting mad at King simply asking questions.

This response caught my eye

 

I think that since I know I am town, and you don't know it makes me sorta annoyed when people question my status, but then I have to remember that y'all are suspicious of almost everybody and it's usually not a direct shot at me.

 

Seems to know he got quite defensive in his response to King.  To be honest, if someone gets annoyed for people questioning them and their town appeal, then you're likely to get annoyed a lot, as everyone gets questioned in this game, and a good scum hunter would look to question people and see how they react...and yours, as I stated, came off rather defensive for a rather insignificant question.  

 

And well King seemed to really look to get Robert killed as it seemed him and Robert had a big back and forth.  That being said, I am not sure if a scum would push so hard, especially on Day 2...but King also could of been lured in from Robert coming back at him that he overextended himself as a scum.  Robert, who we now know was town, also seemed to push suspicion of you and ABT near the end.  

 

These are my initial things that caught my eye, but as I stated I still need to spend some time and look back and read a lot of the responses in full and not simply skimming as I have.  It's my starting point at this time, but without really seeing all the happened, I am not going to start a quick lynch on either, they're just at this point, my FOS's.  

 

[SeaBeeGipson]

Im glad you are back Rhizo. Game wouldn't be the same without you.

I understand the suspicion towards me and as I've said. I welcome anyone to accuse me. Brings activity to the game and by accusing me, whoever does also has to post and respond. A good way to catch scum, whether they try going defensive or offensive.

As far as my push for Robert after the roleclaim, it just seemed too generic. A bodyguard? Granted, he was telling the truth. I can't refute that part but it sounded like a claim I would've made if I were scum.
His responses that held no weight in my opinion and his what seemed like desperate attempts to undermine myself seemed like a scum trying to hold on to his last breath to survive. I was positive he was scum, and I was honestly shocked when he wasnt.
I've played enough with several people to know how they play. AbT is very argumentative. You are both logical and emotional with your style (which is why I like playing these with you. Especially on opposite sides.) Robert, however, I would not have pegged as an emotional player in the way he was responding. That is really my stance on my reasoning for pushing to lynch him. I was damn sure he was scum.

I hope (I know it is a lot to read) that both you and Isocialism can read the thread. If either or both of you are town, we need as much help as we can at this point.

[D34THBR1NG3R]

I would've voted for Robert but during the "end of his time here" he sounded very non-caring as if  he knew it was inevitable at this point. However what I said doesn't really matter anymore as he was lynched and he is dead. But Ali is making some good points that I feel like people may have missed. 

 

 

 

So your going to tell me you didn't push hard to get Robert lynched, you started the wagon and used your considable pursuavsive talents to send him to the gallows or are you denying that. But I wasn't just suspecting you, but all in the Robert Wagon that once again you started

 

Maybe I should feel flattered a little, however it's not true. I know I'm all but persuasive - enough to mention I failed to lead Lego lynch twice last game. I don't think pushing hard for someone to get lynched is a scum-proof (Lego example again?) and I think you know it.

 

Just to sum up, you say I'm a suspect because I wanted to lynch Robert and I pushed hard for it. But then tell me, why were you OK with lynching him then? Also why would you vote on Mandarjin without any serious suspicion, just to, let me quote you, "put him out of his misery"?

It's all here: http://ironcentral.org/community/topic/58337-tw-04-harry-potter-and-the-prisoner-of-azkaban-mafia-day-3/page-11#entry885182

 

I feel like this is all a bit suspicious (not Ali but WP). Not that it really means much coming from me because I am persuaded way too easily in this game because you have no definite set of roles that you could use to narrow it down. HOWEVER, voted on someone just to "put him out of his misery" is really a lousy reason and would never constitute a vote in my book. My FoS is definitely on Wolfpacks, also maybe a little on KevinH but that one is a lot smaller because he has provided reasoning and other stuff.

[Wolfpacks]

Ok let's explain myself I voted Mandi to put him out of his misery because he hasn't time to play the game and isn't active and it doesn't seem that TW is going to replace him so to lynch him would put him out of his misery.

I expected Death to react this way as I accused him of being scummy in the way he pulled his vote from before.

Ali I have played this a couple of times with you and believe me you can be pursuavsive. Although I am suspicious of you I'm more suspicious of those that voted later then your. Although Robert was over defensive I wasnt convinced he was scum hence my not voting for him

[Ali bin Turban]

Ok let's explain myself I voted Mandi to put him out of his misery because he hasn't time to play the game and isn't active and it doesn't seem that TW is going to replace him so to lynch him would put him out of his misery.

I expected Death to react this way as I accused him of being scummy in the way he pulled his vote from before.

Ali I have played this a couple of times with you and believe me you can be pursuavsive. Although I am suspicious of you I'm more suspicious of those that voted later then your. Although Robert was over defensive I wasnt convinced he was scum hence my not voting for him

 

1. So you admit voting on Mandarijn just because he's inactive?

2. You said you were suspicious especially of me and yehom (http://ironcentral.org/community/topic/58337-tw-04-harry-potter-and-the-prisoner-of-azkaban-mafia-day-3/page-12#entry885368). Now you change your mind and say there are other people (and more than one) that seem more suspicious to you.

[Yehom]

So your going to tell me you didn't push hard to get Robert lynched, you started the wagon and used your considable pursuavsive talents to send him to the gallows or are you denying that. But I wasn't just suspecting you, but all in the Robert Wagon that once again you started

 

Sorry KingH did i miss you, i guess you didnt push as hard as the other two, i think you was enjoying winding Robert Up more then anything else, if ive learnt anything in this game that is to keep a cool head, losing it kinda damns you. I have to agree Kevin here those who jumped on Roberts wagon late have to be under most suspicion especially if it was after his RC.

 

Ok let's explain myself I voted Mandi to put him out of his misery because he hasn't time to play the game and isn't active and it doesn't seem that TW is going to replace him so to lynch him would put him out of his misery. I expected Death to react this way as I accused him of being scummy in the way he pulled his vote from before. Ali I have played this a couple of times with you and believe me you can be pursuavsive. Although I am suspicious of you I'm more suspicious of those that voted later then your. Although Robert was over defensive I wasnt convinced he was scum hence my not voting for him

 

I’m confused Wolfpacks. First you’re getting all dramatic about Robert getting lynched, knowing very well how he got himself in that position to start with and how badly he played it afterwards. Somebody would have called him out on his bullshit and someone did. Ali being the first wasn’t significant in my eyes as many other people questioned Robert’s motives in different parts of the day on different things that he said. Then you say that not Ali was the standout person being the first one wanting to lynch Robert, but now the latter people on the wagon are the ones to watch. To me that sounds like you backing off seeing as multiple people have stated that they think Ali is most likely town and as a result you wanting to shut down your own wagon as soon as possible by backtracking and correcting your previously made statements. You then try to shift back the attention to your vote to Manda (and your non vote for Robert) and basically trying to say that you didn’t think Ali was scum, because look I voted for Manda for said reasons and I also think that again not the one that started the lynch, but those that ended it are suspicious. How far am I off?

 

My question is: are you in favor of the town? Was that failed attempt to start a wagon on Ali because you thought he was actually scum, or was it because you felt that Ali gave the most town vibe off?

[Rhizoctonia]

To be quite fair

 

As I stated:

 

 

I see some reasons to suspect him however his RC would of at least made me rethink voting him off, and I would of likely gone with killing off an inactive player/ones asking for a replacement (Myself/Mand/Maz) since we weren't going to be of much help, and finding 3 replacements for a game this size would of been hard to do as many of the main players already are in it.  Seems that was close to happening with Mand vote.

Day 1 would of been the time to lynch an inactive player, even if they turn out to be town.  Now with the even numbers at the start of our game and the rush of the NL on Day 1, technically D2 was the "day 1" and would of been the time to lynch an inactive.  Especially considering Robert had already RC'd with a character that has I believe been in every HP game so far that TW has done, and no one counter claimed his role or his character name.  I'm not one to lynch a truly inactive player as I always recommend replacement over lynching, but with D2 arriving and 3 people asking for replacements, it was very unlikely we'd find 3 replacements as the usual Mafia players were already playing here since it was a big game.  If I didn't buy a new computer or delayed any longer with buying one...you would be stuck today with now 2 truly inactive players (Myself/Mandarijn) and now potentially being down 2 town.  A shot in the dark lynching Mandarijn, myself, or Maz would at the minimum got rid of an unhelpful town, and at best, hit a scum and in my opinion would of been the better choice.  Especially after a uncontested RC from Robert, and allow our investigative roles to check Robert out last night.  Day 3 is not the time now to be waging our bets looking to lynch inactives, and as I stated, had I not come back, you'd be sitting with two people not contributing anything, thus not helping town scum hunt nor vote or give any signs of where they aligned.  

 

That's my 2 cents

 

I also highly suspect 1, if not more scums were on Robert's wagon.  

 

Thus 

Robert2424 (6): Ali bin Turban, King Hitler, Yehom, Chaplain of Death, 1ceCream, Preston

[KevinH]

I think Mandarijn has a greater chance to be scum since the other scum lynched Robert2424 or at least allowed most of the townies to lynch him.

[iSocialism]

I agree with Rhiz.

 

supposing a lynch on Madjin because of activity should have been done on d1. Bringing it into day 3 is either a distraction, bait, or an easy lynch push. 

I think that there is now pressure building up on WP. I too like to test the waters. He might start to become quite, and we can't have that, so for now

 

Vote Wolfpack

 

also because he hates me in these games

[The Warrior]

"The consequences of our actions are always so complicated, so diverse,
that predicting the future is a very difficult business indeed."

 

Vote Count

Mandarijn (1): KevinH

Wolfpacks (1): iSocialism

1ceCream (0):

Ali bin Turban (0):

Chaplain of Death (0):

D34THBR1NG3R (0):

KevinH (0):

King Hitler (0):

Mazuurek (0):

Preston (0):

Rhizoctonia (0):

Sister Midnight (0):

Yehom (0):

 

No Lynch (0):

Not Voting: 1ceCream, Ali bin Turban, Chaplain of Death, D34THBR1NG3R, King Hitler, Mandarijn, Preston, Rhizoctonia, Sister Midnight, Wolfpacks, Yehom

 

With 13 players alive it takes 7 to lynch or 4 at deadline.
Deadline is 11:00am CST on Friday, October 28th.

[KevinH]

Finster Baby, now known as townie, was voting for Mandarijn.

 

Maybe that's why the scum killed him.

[Wolfpacks]

I agree with Rhiz.

supposing a lynch on Madjin because of activity should have been done on d1. Bringing it into day 3 is either a distraction, bait, or an easy lynch push.
I think that there is now pressure building up on WP. I too like to test the waters. He might start to become quite, and we can't have that, so for now

Vote Wolfpack

also because he hates me in these games

Bit harsh mate, i dont hate anyone
Actually the vote to lynch mandi was done on day2, i have nothing to hide im here to help town as always, i try never to be quiet 😉

[Wolfpacks]

So your going to tell me you didn't push hard to get Robert lynched, you started the wagon and used your considable pursuavsive talents to send him to the gallows or are you denying that. But I wasn't just suspecting you, but all in the Robert Wagon that once again you started

Sorry KingH did i miss you, i guess you didnt push as hard as the other two, i think you was enjoying winding Robert Up more then anything else, if ive learnt anything in this game that is to keep a cool head, losing it kinda damns you. I have to agree Kevin here those who jumped on Roberts wagon late have to be under most suspicion especially if it was after his RC.

Ok let's explain myself I voted Mandi to put him out of his misery because he hasn't time to play the game and isn't active and it doesn't seem that TW is going to replace him so to lynch him would put him out of his misery. I expected Death to react this way as I accused him of being scummy in the way he pulled his vote from before. Ali I have played this a couple of times with you and believe me you can be pursuavsive. Although I am suspicious of you I'm more suspicious of those that voted later then your. Although Robert was over defensive I wasnt convinced he was scum hence my not voting for him

I’m confused Wolfpacks. First you’re getting all dramatic about Robert getting lynched, knowing very well how he got himself in that position to start with and how badly he played it afterwards. Somebody would have called him out on his bullshit and someone did. Ali being the first wasn’t significant in my eyes as many other people questioned Robert’s motives in different parts of the day on different things that he said. Then you say that not Ali was the standout person being the first one wanting to lynch Robert, but now the latter people on the wagon are the ones to watch. To me that sounds like you backing off seeing as multiple people have stated that they think Ali is most likely town and as a result you wanting to shut down your own wagon as soon as possible by backtracking and correcting your previously made statements. You then try to shift back the attention to your vote to Manda (and your non vote for Robert) and basically trying to say that you didn’t think Ali was scum, because look I voted for Manda for said reasons and I also think that again not the one that started the lynch, but those that ended it are suspicious. How far am I off?

My question is: are you in favor of the town? Was that failed attempt to start a wagon on Ali because you thought he was actually scum, or was it because you felt that Ali gave the most town vibe off?

I think everyone who voted for Robert is under suspicion, whether they voted 1st or last, at the start of the wagon you got under his skin and he bit. You cant reasonably defended yourself if you get angry over every little thing thrown at you.

[Yehom]

Who's angry?

[Ali bin Turban]

@Rhizo I'm really surprised with your posts. Such a stout defender of inactives as yourself now saying he's ok with lynching them? Out of 3 guys last day, we have just one...and we don't know if he wont get replaced / get active...just any moment. Would it be smart to lynch you on D2? Maybe...if you're scum, but judging just by being inactive not so much.

Secondly, the way Robert acted and RCed was just bad. Also, did you really expected a counterclaim on such niche/never used (until now) role as a bodyguard? Or maybe his presumably safe name claim?

If we are to say "oh, OK I believe you...let's lynch inactive instead" to every scum that claim to be a bodyguard, nurse, macho miller, or something like that then we won't get far (especially when role cop is gone).

 

@KevinH I see being unhelpful to the town is your general MO when playing mafia. Without any doubt Mandarijn has greater chance to turn out scum...since we don't know who he's and Robert already turned out town. I'm wondering what would you say after D2 last game when we lynched Rafay and we got You and Lego on other wagons? Surely they had greater chances to turn out scum...yet both of them were town. 

 

@Wolfpacks you said me and Yehom are the most suspicious. What has changed that suddenly we're not anymore on top of your list?

 

@Yehom what's so townish about me? Maybe that's a stupid question but I wouldn't like to see a scum piggybacking on me.

[SeaBeeGipson]

I have to agree. Wolfpacks isn't leaving a good pattern in his replies but neither did Robert and we lynched a townie because he came off very scummish.
Wolfpacks is following this same path to me. I feel he is coming off scummy with his aims at AbT and Yehom, then pulling back. He seems to be trying to draw a lot of attention towards the Robert lynch, yet his stance was for it until a very flimsy roleclaim. Too much red flags but I feel he is slipping into the same territory Robert fell into.

I like to bring up Kevin trying to go after Mand it seems. Is it an easy lynch for scum because he was almost dead yesterday? Is that also why Rhizo seems to be trying to state he would've been okay with a Mand lynch? As if testing the waters to see how much traction it can pick up.

Finster Baby, now known as townie, was voting for Mandarijn.
 
Maybe that's why the scum killed him.

This right here did it for me. It wasn't scum killing him to protect Mand. It was scum killing him to blame Mand. Am I wrong Kevin? Again, I feel this is you trying to see how much traction you can pick up.

Vote KevinH
I'd like to truly know why you feel an inactive lynch as Mandarijn is who we should go for. My theory? Scum playing it safe and the kill on Finister was to set Mandarijn up.

[Yehom]

@Yehom what's so townish about me? Maybe that's a stupid question but I wouldn't like to see a scum piggybacking on me.

I'm not saying you look like town, I'm saying that to someone it could be like you're the most town as a couple of people have already announced that they think you're most likely town, which is why I phrased the question to Wolfpacks like I did. The answer I got however was very disappointing

[Chaplain of death]

Robert only got more suspicious as the conversation went on, and more hostile. Its unfortunate that he flipped town but he kind of asked to be lynched with his behavior.

 

As Ali and Yehom have said, I'd like to know what has changed WP's mind that ali is no longer at the top of his scum list but everyone else who voted for Robert is at the top of his list. Robert fumbled through his defense and tipped multiple scum tells by accident, therefore I don't see the suspicion based on that vote alone. Its quite possible 1 or 2 scum were on that wagon, they will be looking to lynch townies and that was an easy one to jump on. It will be something to remember down the line, who was on this wagon but I don't think its reason enough to lynch off of today.

 

To those who keep bringing up Robert role claim. He only name claimed for at first, which looked scummy as hell, and then dropped his role later after being pressured hard, and he dropped a super fringe role (it ended up being real but easily could have been fake). To be quite honest, with how scummy he looked through all of that, I'd be a bit suspicious of those that sat on the sidelines and gave half hearted defenses of Robert without actually jumping into the conversation.

 

 

Ooooooooh nooooooo! Not Finster!

King H, I posted when I posted because that was when I had the opportunity to post. The fact that you want to spin it as scummy makes you look either paranoid or scummy yourself. I don't ha e time to do a read back, but I will be looking over everyone's reasons for the way the voted, with extra attention to you, King H. Are you permanent-scum?

I had some suspicion of Robert until the role claim, and my reason for believing him was a damned good one, I'm surprised no one else believed him. As King pointed out, I posted way too late to save him, but I didn't see his role claim until then.

 

I'm quite suspicious of SM since she said she would vote Robert just as I did, and then back tracked instead when the wagon already had the momentum to go through saying she believed Roberts incredibly flimsy defense and claim. If your "damned good" reason for believing Robert was anything other than scum knowledge that he was a townie, then it was most definitely NOT "damned good". Also interesting is that you imply that anyone being suspicious of you is scum by attacking King. He has valid reasons for being suspicious, your behavior is non-linear in my opinion. I believe you are acting based on non-public information. If it is the result of a night action perhaps you should (or should have) share it.

Ooooooooh nooooooo! Not Finster!

King H, I posted when I posted because that was when I had the opportunity to post. The fact that you want to spin it as scummy makes you look either paranoid or scummy yourself. I don't ha e time to do a read back, but I will be looking over everyone's reasons for the way the voted, with extra attention to you, King H. Are you permanent-scum?

I had some suspicion of Robert until the role claim, and my reason for believing him was a damned good one, I'm surprised no one else believed him. As King pointed out, I posted way too late to save him, but I didn't see his role claim until then.

 

I'm 

I agree with Robert2424 in that everyone should be voting somewhere.  

 

I don't really see anyone standing out as the most scummy, but we need to lynch someone.  If either Robert or Mandarijn flip town, I'll be most suspicious of those that didn't vote.

 

All we really have are the votes.

 

Day 1, I think the no-lynch vote was the most townie so my suspicion would go toward those that were not on the wagon.  However, the scum could easily have joined when they realized no other candidate would win.

 

Day 2, Robert2424 was obviously the wrong choice so my first suspicion is on those that voted for him, but I'll also equally suspect those that didn't vote.  The scum would be very willing to watch townies lynch one of their own.

 

As an extension to the Day 2 information ... consider that if Mandarijn is scum, then his buddies would have wanted to push any other wagon than his, which happened to be Robert2424's.

 

So since you weren't on the wagon of the one who flipped town already, that suddenly makes them far more suspicious? "Obviously the wrong choice"? In hind sight yes it was since he came up town, but at the time he was the only RIGHT choice as his behavior and claim was scummy in almost every way. Strange how your suspicion went from those who didn't vote, before the lynch was decided when you still could have been on the lynch wagon that went through, to literally everyone else in the game except those who voted with you, even though those voting with you could easily have been scum trying to appear active and not on Roberts wagon since they knew he would flip scum. 

 

All we really have are the votes.

 

Day 1, I think the no-lynch vote was the most townie so my suspicion would go toward those that were not on the wagon.  However, the scum could easily have joined when they realized no other candidate would win.

 

Day 2, Robert2424 was obviously the wrong choice so my first suspicion is on those that voted for him, but I'll also equally suspect those that didn't vote.  The scum would be very willing to watch townies lynch one of their own.

 

As an extension to the Day 2 information ... consider that if Mandarijn is scum, then his buddies would have wanted to push any other wagon than his, which happened to be Robert2424's.

 

god damn. copy pasted the quotes around and it pasted it twice .