1108 replies to this topic

[atliis]

Sorry guys it's my first time playing I'm here just trying to learn. Please don't Lynch me.

[The Warrior]

Vote Count

 

Ali bin Turban (2): KevinH, Rhizoctonia

Atliis (1): Lord MK

Darkfox (1): Samus

Lachiton (1): Brewersalliance

Samus (1): Darkfox

Brewersalliance (0):

Canik (0):

Colonel Medved (0):

Jazzy95 (0):

KevinH (0):

Kitkat16 (0):

Lord MK (0):

Mandarijn (0):

Rafay (0):

Rhizoctonia (0):

SeaBeeGipson (0):

Yehom (0):

 

No Lynch (0):

 

Not Voting: Ali bin Turban, Atliis, Canik, Colonel Medved, Darkfox, Jazzy95, KevinH, Kitkat16, Lachiton, Mandarijn, Rafay, SeaBeeGipson, Yehom

 

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch or 5 at deadline.

Deadline is 1:00pm CST on Wednesday, April 25th.

[Lord MK]

Unvote

[brewersalliance]

okay here are my further thoughts

 

Option A:  ABT was targeted by the cupid n1.  TW said his thoughts on the role are the same as the greater idea mafia thoughts.  If it was a town cupid that would be dumb AF to actually use your power cause all you would do is put multiple town roles in danger, so if there is a cupid, my guess is it is scum.  tho if it is a town cupid, it might be advantageous to role claim right now and either tell us if the claim is true or false and why on earth u would actually pick someone to potentially cause a killing chain.  With that being said if ABT is telling the truth, killing him means anyone who targeted him n1 would also die, and anyone who does in the future will also die. 

 

Option B.  ABT is lying.  Since cupid seems like a mafia role, scum could either have it and be using this as a ploy to keep us away from voting for ABT, or they could not have the role but be betting on it wouldn't be a town role, since that would be a pretty damaging town role to actually have/use.  

 

So we are stuck between a rock and a hard place.  We have to decided to either kill him and hope he is lying, and if it turns out he isnt lying, risk multiple townies dying.  Or we let him live and risk he was playing us and he is scum.  Sure we could have the cop (if there is one) investigate him, but then if he comes up as innocent, the cop is at risk of dying if ABT is killed.  So then the scum could be setting this up for ABT to be investigated, not lynch him today, then wait until n3 to kill him and take out both ABT and the cop (and anyone else that could have visited ABT).  Or the scum wants us to think that is their plan so we stay away from ABT and dont kill him, when he is really scum this entire time.  

[The Warrior]

Vote Count

 

Ali bin Turban (2): KevinH, Rhizoctonia

Darkfox (1): Samus

Lachiton (1): Brewersalliance

Samus (1): Darkfox

Atliis (0):

Brewersalliance (0):

Canik (0):

Colonel Medved (0):

Jazzy95 (0):

KevinH (0):

Kitkat16 (0):

Lord MK (0):

Mandarijn (0):

Rafay (0):

Rhizoctonia (0):

SeaBeeGipson (0):

Yehom (0):

 

No Lynch (0):

 

Not Voting: Ali bin Turban, Atliis, Canik, Colonel Medved, Darkfox, Jazzy95, KevinH, Kitkat16, Lachiton, Lord MK, Mandarijn, Rafay, SeaBeeGipson, Yehom

 

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch or 5 at deadline.

Deadline is 1:00pm CST on Wednesday, April 25th.

[brewersalliance]

what sticks out to me like a sore thumb is tho that he was messaged he was targeted by the cupid.  sure we cant confirm that he was or wasnt, but that just sticks out to me as off.  why would you be told you were targeted by the cupid but not told if any other actions, such as a rb or tp was done to you?

as of now I am leaning towards the best plan isnt to kill him now but have the cop investigate him, because it just feels like this is a scum ploy, and if he comes up guilty we kill him d3, and if he comes up inno we put TP on him so they cant make a domino kill

[SeaBeeGipson]

  Sure we could have the cop (if there is one) investigate him, but then if he comes up as innocent, the cop is at risk of dying if ABT is killed.

How would the cop be at risk? Having been targeted last game (where TW took over afterwards) by a lover role (nympho/cupid) only the target(s) are effected. Anyone afterwards isn't, it doesn't operate like a chain reaction. 

as of now I am leaning towards the best plan isnt to kill him now but have the cop investigate him

With that being said if ABT is telling the truth, killing him means anyone who targeted him n1 would also die, and anyone who does in the future will also die. 

Above, you think it does operate like a chain reaction, yet still want the cop (one of town's most valuable roles) to investigate AbT and place the cop in danger? I don't follow the logic there.

 

The only problem I see where the cop is in danger is if a watcher exists for the scum and targets AbT WHILE a cop investigates. AbT claiming put a target on his back from several aspects, and we should be aware of them before jumping on who should do what. Would be a pretty smart move from scum to lay the bait for that and draw the cop out early though, right?
 

FoS Brewers 

[Rhizoctonia]

 

  Sure we could have the cop (if there is one) investigate him, but then if he comes up as innocent, the cop is at risk of dying if ABT is killed.

How would the cop be at risk? Having been targeted last game (where TW took over afterwards) by a lover role (nympho/cupid) only the target(s) are effected. Anyone afterwards isn't, it doesn't operate like a chain reaction. 

 

as of now I am leaning towards the best plan isnt to kill him now but have the cop investigate him

 

With that being said if ABT is telling the truth, killing him means anyone who targeted him n1 would also die, and anyone who does in the future will also die. 

Above, you think it does operate like a chain reaction, yet still want the cop (one of town's most valuable roles) to investigate AbT and place the cop in danger? I don't follow the logic there.

 

The only problem I see where the cop is in danger is if a watcher exists for the scum and targets AbT WHILE a cop investigates. AbT claiming put a target on his back from several aspects, and we should be aware of them before jumping on who should do what. Would be a pretty smart move from scum to lay the bait for that and draw the cop out early though, right?
 

FoS Brewers 

 

 

 

Where have you been?  So far we do not have evidence/confirmation him being targeted by cupid means anyone who uses their ability all game long will become lovers, or just solely anyone who targeted him N1.  

[brewersalliance]

 

 

  Sure we could have the cop (if there is one) investigate him, but then if he comes up as innocent, the cop is at risk of dying if ABT is killed.

How would the cop be at risk? Having been targeted last game (where TW took over afterwards) by a lover role (nympho/cupid) only the target(s) are effected. Anyone afterwards isn't, it doesn't operate like a chain reaction. 

 

as of now I am leaning towards the best plan isnt to kill him now but have the cop investigate him

 

With that being said if ABT is telling the truth, killing him means anyone who targeted him n1 would also die, and anyone who does in the future will also die. 

Above, you think it does operate like a chain reaction, yet still want the cop (one of town's most valuable roles) to investigate AbT and place the cop in danger? I don't follow the logic there.

 

The only problem I see where the cop is in danger is if a watcher exists for the scum and targets AbT WHILE a cop investigates. AbT claiming put a target on his back from several aspects, and we should be aware of them before jumping on who should do what. Would be a pretty smart move from scum to lay the bait for that and draw the cop out early though, right?
 

FoS Brewers 

 

 

 

Where have you been?  So far we do not have evidence/confirmation him being targeted by cupid means anyone who uses their ability all game long will become lovers, or just solely anyone who targeted him N1.  

 

This is what I based everything on:

 

 

 

@TW

1. Is the cupid role taken from the Greater Idea Mafia?

2. About night actions resolution. Mafia sends a cupid to visit me and also let's assume they try to kill me on the same night. Would everyone that visited me that night be killed (except for cupid), including the mafia guy delivering the kill?

3. Could cupid visit someone and at the same time deliver a kill?

I will neither confirm nor deny the existence of any role in this game, but my general interpretation of the cupid role would be the same as that of the role in the "Greater Idea" game.

 

My scum philosophy is that a scum player would be able to use a kill and use any role they might have on the same night.

 

 

 

@TW

1. Is the cupid role taken from the Greater Idea Mafia?

2. About night actions resolution. Mafia sends a cupid to visit me and also let's assume they try to kill me on the same night. Would everyone that visited me that night be killed (except for cupid), including the mafia guy delivering the kill?

3. Could cupid visit someone and at the same time deliver a kill?

I will neither confirm nor deny the existence of any role in this game, but my general interpretation of the cupid role would be the same as that of the role in the "Greater Idea" game.

 

My scum philosophy is that a scum player would be able to use a kill and use any role they might have on the same night.

 

ummm where did everything go that i justed typed for the last ten min

[brewersalliance]

lets try this again:

 

okay so here is what the greater idea mafia says about the cupid:

 

• Cupid: During Night 1, you may PM me the name of another player. Every player that targets this player (except you) will become Lovers with them.

 

And now that I read this, it seems really ambigious.  At first i assumed that it meant at any time a player targets them they are lovers, but now I am not entirely sure if it just refers to n1 or every night

 

And for what SBG said,  I suggested that option since I am leaning toward ABT lying.  Right now since the mod wont give us more details on the cupid role, we have two ways to figure out if he is lying.  Option 1-kill him and risk taking out multiple townies at once (if he is telling the truth)  or have the cop investigate.  I think the cop investigating is a little safer of the option.  Sure it puts the cop at risk if he is telling the truth, but if we lynch him, we could be putting multiple power roles at risk already.  Also if the lovers only applies to n1, then the future investigation of the cop has no risk.  obviously we dont know if it is or if it isnt the case for when it goes into effect.  If the cop investigates and he is guilty, well then we know he is lying and we can lynch him.  If he comes up as innocent, the cop doesnt need to say anything, and the cop goes unknown, and then TP can go on ABT, thus preventing the chain link kills if ABT were to die (assuming that u become a lover even after n1).  Like I said, rock or hard place, but with the feeling that ABT is probably lying, I feel the investigation route is the best way to go.   

[Yehom]

Vote: Lord MK

 

I've now see you post multiple times, yet the most pressing issue at hand you just quite spectacularly manage to dodge every single time. You make it look like you're active, while simultaneously not participating with the discussion. That's some bs fluffing if I've ever seen it, so I'm voting for you until you've made an actual contribution to issue at hand, because as of right now you're just dancing around it 

[Ali bin Turban]

Oh crap, I could swear and bet all my tech, that I saw word 'Cupid' in my message, but reading it now again I see there's only information I've been struck with the lovers effect. That's quite a blunder .

 

 

Anyway, my train of thought was as follow:

1. Cupid is most likely a scum role. It's useless for the town (positive scenario for the town is so much less likely to happen than positive scenario for the scum) and one being a town would be a fool to fire it randomly.
2. If Cupid was scum, then scum already know what happened. Only people that didn't know were town so it was in best town's interest to let them know. Keeping the knowledge for myself would just mean me ending dead with a chance of some others being dead too and town being confused what's going on.

People, imagine you've been hit by cupid and mafia knows it. Wouldn't you warn the town of what happened?

 

Being a town only logical action for me would be to report being hit by the cupid to warn town (again mafia already knows).

Being a scum why would I go talking about it at all? Have anyone voted on me? Have anyone suspected me of something? Were I under any pressure? Why would I even go that route? To grab unwanted attention?

 

 

 

However, as I mentioned it turns out I don't know if I was hit by cupid. It could very well be a nymphomaniac (but still, there are better targets around, ones that tend to survive longer) and in that case announcing it was a stupid move.

 

Still the reaction of some people is very, very interesting.

 

1. Brewers seems to be very doubtful about about the cupid role, up to the point of asking how did I know I was target by him and putting a lot of thoughts into possibility of cupid being a town role. Like if he knows something we don't know (that there's no mafia cupid in game).

 

2. KevinH fishing for a possible lover here . Why would anyone in his right mind come out and say so? Right now, if there's anyone else we still could be protected. With other people out our fate would be sealed. Also he's trying to sweeten the deal by saying killing me is no biggie because I don't have any power. How does he know it?

 

Finally there's the reoccurring argument is that it's better to risk killing multiple townies than to leave unknown player around. Are we in a LYLO situation or something like that now? Do we have all other players confirmed and the chance of me being the scum is the highest? What exactly happens if I'm not lynched today?

 

I have a strong feeling we have scum among the ones pushing for the lynch: KevinH, Brewers and Rhizo. They don't seem to be concerned about the faith of other townies that may be possibly connected to me. Especially KevinH.

[brewersalliance]

 

Oh crap, I could swear and bet all my tech, that I saw word 'Cupid' in my message, but reading it now again I see there's only information I've been struck with the lovers effect. That's quite a blunder .

 

 

Anyway, my train of thought was as follow:

1. Cupid is most likely a scum role. It's useless for the town (positive scenario for the town is so much less likely to happen than positive scenario for the scum) and one being a town would be a fool to fire it randomly.
2. If Cupid was scum, then scum already know what happened. Only people that didn't know were town so it was in best town's interest to let them know. Keeping the knowledge for myself would just mean me ending dead with a chance of some others being dead too and town being confused what's going on.

People, imagine you've been hit by cupid and mafia knows it. Wouldn't you warn the town of what happened?

 

Being a town only logical action for me would be to report being hit by the cupid to warn town (again mafia already knows).

Being a scum why would I go talking about it at all? Have anyone voted on me? Have anyone suspected me of something? Were I under any pressure? Why would I even go that route? To grab unwanted attention?

 

 

 

However, as I mentioned it turns out I don't know if I was hit by cupid. It could very well be a nymphomaniac (but still, there are better targets around, ones that tend to survive longer) and in that case announcing it was a stupid move.

 

Still the reaction of some people is very, very interesting.

 

1. Brewers seems to be very doubtful about about the cupid role, up to the point of asking how did I know I was target by him and putting a lot of thoughts into possibility of cupid being a town role. Like if he knows something we don't know (that there's no mafia cupid in game).

 

2. KevinH fishing for a possible lover here . Why would anyone in his right mind come out and say so? Right now, if there's anyone else we still could be protected. With other people out our fate would be sealed. Also he's trying to sweeten the deal by saying killing me is no biggie because I don't have any power. How does he know it?

 

Finally there's the reoccurring argument is that it's better to risk killing multiple townies than to leave unknown player around. Are we in a LYLO situation or something like that now? Do we have all other players confirmed and the chance of me being the scum is the highest? What exactly happens if I'm not lynched today?

 

I have a strong feeling we have scum among the ones pushing for the lynch: KevinH, Brewers and Rhizo. They don't seem to be concerned about the faith of other townies that may be possibly connected to me. Especially KevinH.

 

okay this changes things a lot. I am going to write this under the assumption that ABT is telling the truth (not saying I think he is cause I still have my doubts and I will address that) since it just says lover and not cupid we no longer even know if a cupid was involved.  i think its safe to say that since the message says he became a lover, if someone targeted him and also became a lover, they would have been given a similar message.  So if someone targeted ABT and did not get that message it means one of two things. A) ABT is lying or its a nymphomaniac.  Now if someone got the message that they are a lover and they did not target ABT, then it would basically confirm it was a nymphomaniac and not a cupid.  

 

As for what you said about me:  I was in no way saying there isnt a mafia cupid, I wanted us to explore all possibilities.  I was doubtful you were telling the truth, as it was a weird claim to make and now it seems like there is a chance a cupid might not even be in play, and you changed your wording to just lover.  Waht screams OMGUS to me is this part "I have a strong feeling we have scum among the ones pushing for the lynch: KevinH, Brewers and Rhizo. They don't seem to be concerned about the faith of other townies that may be possibly connected to me."

 

A)  I was not pushing for a lynch of you.  If you go back and read my posts I said 

 

I suggest waiting a little bit for voting for abt on the chance tw does indeed tell us more about the role. Otherwise we risk potentially killing multiple town at once if he is indeed being honest and was targeted by anyone

 

 

and then later I suggested we wait on the lynch and investigate you.  So what I am suggesting to do would clear you if you are innocent.  

 

I think investigating ABT and not killing him today makes even more sense now since if he is innocent, it might not be the cupid that made ABT get the lovers pm.  

 

Now that ABT says lover, I tend to at least buy his story a bit more and think the needle is moving into the honesty column.  If he was scum trying to get us to avoid investigating him, I think he would have doubled down on the cupid talk, but instead he said it wasnt even a cupid.  if he wanted to make the cop avoid investigating him, saying it was not nessicarly the cupid would not accomplish that.  I still think he should be checked to at least be safe by the cop as I would bet my money on it that it was not the cupid but rather a nympho that targeted him, if indeed his story holds true.   

[Jazzy95]

Vote: Lord MK

 

I've now see you post multiple times, yet the most pressing issue at hand you just quite spectacularly manage to dodge every single time. You make it look like you're active, while simultaneously not participating with the discussion. That's some bs fluffing if I've ever seen it, so I'm voting for you until you've made an actual contribution to issue at hand, because as of right now you're just dancing around it 

 

Well TW put a lot of people in a weird spot. I (We) have nothing to add to the conversation at this point but can't stay quiet for fear of being killed by either the rules or the players for inactivity.

 

P.S- This is less of a defense of Lord MK and more of a preemptive defense of myself 

[brewersalliance]

so we have some people who have not weighed into the ABT thing at all.  do any of you have any thoughts about this whole situation? Rafay?  Medved? Samus?  other people I am blanking on atm lol

[atliis]

Vote abt
It sounds like abt is changing history claimed he read message wrong, and trying to divert attention to two others.
It sounds like abt is changing history claimed he read message wrong, and trying to divert attention to two others.

Edited by atliis, 21 April 2018 - 01:27 AM.

[KevinH]

I immediately corrected myself and said that Ali could have powers.

 

Ali conveniently ignores that and questions how could I know that he has no powers.

 

It all just seems suspicious to me.

[Canik]

Vote abtIt sounds like abt is changing history claimed he read message wrong, and trying to divert attention to two others.

​Atliis moving in for the kill! And with a solid reason too. Nicely done for someone who just started playing. Btw is this your first game of Mafia period or just on IRON forums?

[Lord MK]

I've just realized I got a message from TW yesterday. It turns out I got targeted by a Cupid last night. Now, there's not much info on the cupid role, so I have few questions:

@TW
1. Is the cupid role taken from the Greater Idea Mafia?
2. About night actions resolution. Mafia sends a cupid to visit me and also let's assume they try to kill me on the same night. Would everyone that visited me that night be killed (except for cupid), including the mafia guy delivering the kill?
3. Could cupid visit someone and at the same time deliver a kill?

1. TW said that it is taken from Greater Idea Mafia base.
2. They wouldn't be killed, they just become lovers.
3. They could.

2. The probability of that is very slim, as according to Greater Idea Mafia, there can only be Mafia Cupid.
The second thing is Cupid is a traditional mafia role. Why? It has no use with town.
The only use is to target someone like TW.
Then it becomes relevant as people tend to investigate him less and mafia always go after him. So if they do, they guarantee their own death.
But town Cupid are not normal.
The other variation is Nymphomaniac, which can be any faction. This is a gambit role, you use it on someone who think is scum, and rc the next day. If your target is indeed scum, then you become essentially bulletproof. And scum will go out of their way to keep you alive.

[Lord MK]

1) you are town and don't want other townies to target you at night so even if you're killed, there's no other townie deaths.

This doesn't make sense though, unless he deliberately announced it so that townie PR's keep dedicating their power to Ali so they keep alive 2 townies at once.

That is way too risky of a claim to make this early Tho. The negatives of doing that dwarf the positives. Announcing to everyone that if u die, multiple townies die with you is screaming hey scum come kill me. Sure now if there are TP roles they might get on ABT, but there could have been a much more subtle and tactful way to do so that wouldn't paint such a huge target on your back for scum. Maybe it was just a dumb mistake but it's hard to see it like that.

You're correct but if cupid is mafia, then they are already aware about it. So how does he announce that to scum if they already know about it.
Don't get me wrong I still don't think this was a good move on his part if he is town, but by announcing this he doesn't make himself more of a target than he already is.
Of course if cupid is town aligned, then this is a very very bad move.

If we are sure that it is indeed Cupid which targeted AbT. And not Nymphomaniac.
Then he did the best thing he could do.
Cupid is a mafia role.
So he ain't announcing to anyone.
I mean, scum is the informed players in this game. So they already know they AbT is targeted, they wouldn't kill him N2. They will wait till N3. And then they move in. If AbT hasn't claimed, he would have been eventually investigated due to him being AbT. Scum realised this, so they made AbT their bait.


Now, another thing i know for a fact.
In the PM saying that you are now a lover.
No where will it be mentioned, how you became a lover.
It just says that you are now a lover.

In fact, the Greater Idea Mafia concurs with me on this one.

You are a Town Lover.

Abilities

During the Day, you may vote for whomever you want lynched.
Lover: If there are other Lovers in the game, you will form a Lover bond with them. All Lovers will die at the same time.
Win Condition

You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated and at least one Town-aligned player is still alive, or nothing can prevent the same.

So how did AbT know that he was targeted by a Cupid?
This is the question everyone should be asking.
The most probable way for this to happen is for TW to have messed up with his PMs.
But i don't think this is a viable possiblity.
But this may be true because of this particular sentence.

Oh crap, I could swear and bet all my tech, that I saw word 'Cupid' in my message, but reading it now again I see there's only information I've been struck with the lovers effect. That's quite a blunder

Maybe TW did say to AbT that he was targeted by a Cupid, bit later edited it out realising his mistake

But i am more inclined to believe AbT is making stuff up.
But if you guys do decide to lynch him, make sure that it is a lynch by half majority vote.
As I have this feeling in a part of my head which says that AbT is a Mafia Supersaint.
That role do exist in this game.