Kitkat16

That's never coming back and you have no one to blame but yourself. Unvote. Vote KitKat. A wise man once said: "A silent Kitkat is a mafia Kitkat." Or else a Kitkat who hasn't noticed that the game has started. Hello everyone. For future reference, Mandy has my real life email address. Not to be handed out to just anyone though.

hello everyone im in

Why would it make any difference if she was alive? She was a commuter. There's no advantage to voting a dead player, at least not SM. I could easily have picked FS or WP who are VT, what difference would it have made whether they would verify anything? As for SBG, I voted for him on D3 before switching my vote to you. I was suspicious of him and it hadn't emerged at that point that SM was a commuter, so I wasn't to know there were other possibilities. It's entirely plausible that I would investigate someone I actually voted to lynch, after you came out as doctor. As for the inference that you were scum based on having a PR: as I already said, my FoS wasn't based purely on that fact. You were aggressively pushing to lynch a townie (and me, for that matter.) It simply added to my reasons for thinking you were scum. Put it this way: if you'd come up as VT, I would have been less suspicious of you (at least to some degree.) Lastly, I reiterate that I didn't need to roleclaim. I was under suspicion, but not immediate pressure of being lynched. The wagon was forming on LS. It would have been cleverer to wait it out, if I were scum. You claim to tracked SM, she's dead, and her role is now for sure known. It's quite easy to use her in your fake RC since 1. I don't know if a tracker would get any result anyway, 2. If she's dead and you would she's not around to say anything. So your roleclaim you picked someone, whose role is now exposed and an easy claim to make. Then your next day you claim to had followed me on CoD. This, already information that I've given out yesterday, and easy for you to claim. And finally you pick SBG that he said yesterday when Isocialism RC'd that he didn't have an ability to use. All 3 are known things, all 3 are easy claims to make. I was actively pushing a lynch on a town yesterday? You didn't know Isocialism was for sure town yesterday so don't give me that. Well you would, if you were scum and know who town is, which is what I've already alluded to a scum likely trying to do, actively look to defend a known town so if they're lynched you look town. And hell, SBG could be your little scum buddy as well, who will come out and verify he didn't do an action again, which if he's telling the truth yesterday he didn't have one. I don't know if you're trying to include him so if you're lynched there is separation between the two of you. I've believed there's 1 scum between the two of you for how actively you tried to defend Isocialism, and been waiting all day to see. Now I'm starting to believe it's you. Your reasoning for suspecting me as scum makes zero sense. If you saw I followed someone, and that person wasn't killed, its a lot more likely I had a town PR then a scum. Finding I visited someone could be a multitude of things, and you actively pushing for people to jump on my wagon at the end of D2 trying to make me RC was stupid going off I visited someone and they survived. All your claims are easy for you to make, known knowledge, and way too easily faked. OK. So why wouldn't I have picked a living VT instead of SM, then? You're reading too much into the fact that she's dead. So what if SBG claimed not to have a power? Yes, there were other possibilities as to what happened that night, but the fact remains that he was roleblocked and was therefore a reasonable option to investigate. I didn't know that iSoc was town for sure, no. Nothing in my post claims I did. I simply saw someone with a PR aggressively pushing to kill someone who had just claimed JOAT when it was incredibly risky to do so if he *WAS* scum. (Plus, you kept accusing me of being scum based on flimsy evidence, which didn't give you townie points in my eyes.) And I was right. As you can see from perusing my posts I wasn't sure what to think about LS at first, but given his weird behaviour later decided he was likely town (and then changed my mind again and wasn't sure what to think towards the end of that day.) Let me spell it out: there was a strong case you were scum that day even if you hadn't flipped as having a PR on N2. I and lots of other people thought so, including iSoc. Wrong, you did claim it. You said your FOS wasn't based purely on my PR but that I was aggressively pushing a lynch of a townie, for which if you're town you wouldn't know until after he was lynched that he was. How can you claim you weren't sure Isocialism was town, when you claim that I gained FOS from aggressively pushing a lynch of a townie. If you didn't know Isocialism wasn't town, then my aggressive push and calling him out would not be suspicious. And you were right about what, that Isocialism is town? Yea, not hard if you're a scum and know he's town. You weren't right about me being scum or right about trying to push a late day wagon on me to force a RC, were you? I'm not reading into anything too much, I'm simply stating all your actions are easily faked because you're using information that's already out there. There's no new information, and there's nothing to deny it, because all the information is already been out there. I was obviously speaking in retrospect when I said that you were aggressively pushing to lynch a townie. I was *not* saying that at the time I knew for sure he was town. I wouldn't make such a dumb and easily disprovable claim.

If I were trying to distance myself from SBG, I'd have accused him of having made a movement. Edit: Whoops. That was supposed to be in reply to Rhizo. That would make sense how? If both you and SBG are scum buddies, you saying he made a movement would imply he was lying before and thus would likely cause him to be lynched. That would be purposefully trying to kill your own scum teammate. There's a difference in distancing oneself and looking to simply kill off your partner The point being that if we were scum buddies I wouldn't want to be seen as trying to absolve him.

If I were trying to distance myself from SBG, I'd have accused him of having made a movement. Edit: Whoops. That was supposed to be in reply to Rhizo.

Why would it make any difference if she was alive? She was a commuter. There's no advantage to voting a dead player, at least not SM. I could easily have picked FS or WP who are VT, what difference would it have made whether they would verify anything? As for SBG, I voted for him on D3 before switching my vote to you. I was suspicious of him and it hadn't emerged at that point that SM was a commuter, so I wasn't to know there were other possibilities. It's entirely plausible that I would investigate someone I actually voted to lynch, after you came out as doctor. As for the inference that you were scum based on having a PR: as I already said, my FoS wasn't based purely on that fact. You were aggressively pushing to lynch a townie (and me, for that matter.) It simply added to my reasons for thinking you were scum. Put it this way: if you'd come up as VT, I would have been less suspicious of you (at least to some degree.) Lastly, I reiterate that I didn't need to roleclaim. I was under suspicion, but not immediate pressure of being lynched. The wagon was forming on LS. It would have been cleverer to wait it out, if I were scum. You claim to tracked SM, she's dead, and her role is now for sure known. It's quite easy to use her in your fake RC since 1. I don't know if a tracker would get any result anyway, 2. If she's dead and you would she's not around to say anything. So your roleclaim you picked someone, whose role is now exposed and an easy claim to make. Then your next day you claim to had followed me on CoD. This, already information that I've given out yesterday, and easy for you to claim. And finally you pick SBG that he said yesterday when Isocialism RC'd that he didn't have an ability to use. All 3 are known things, all 3 are easy claims to make. I was actively pushing a lynch on a town yesterday? You didn't know Isocialism was for sure town yesterday so don't give me that. Well you would, if you were scum and know who town is, which is what I've already alluded to a scum likely trying to do, actively look to defend a known town so if they're lynched you look town. And hell, SBG could be your little scum buddy as well, who will come out and verify he didn't do an action again, which if he's telling the truth yesterday he didn't have one. I don't know if you're trying to include him so if you're lynched there is separation between the two of you. I've believed there's 1 scum between the two of you for how actively you tried to defend Isocialism, and been waiting all day to see. Now I'm starting to believe it's you. Your reasoning for suspecting me as scum makes zero sense. If you saw I followed someone, and that person wasn't killed, its a lot more likely I had a town PR then a scum. Finding I visited someone could be a multitude of things, and you actively pushing for people to jump on my wagon at the end of D2 trying to make me RC was stupid going off I visited someone and they survived. All your claims are easy for you to make, known knowledge, and way too easily faked. OK. So why wouldn't I have picked a living VT instead of SM, then? You're reading too much into the fact that she's dead. So what if SBG claimed not to have a power? Yes, there were other possibilities as to what happened that night, but the fact remains that he was roleblocked and was therefore a reasonable option to investigate. I didn't know that iSoc was town for sure, no. Nothing in my post claims I did. I simply saw someone with a PR aggressively pushing to kill someone who had just claimed JOAT when it was incredibly risky to do so if he *WAS* scum. (Plus, you kept accusing me of being scum based on flimsy evidence, which didn't give you townie points in my eyes.) And I was right. As you can see from perusing my posts I wasn't sure what to think about LS at first, but given his weird behaviour later decided he was likely town (and then changed my mind again and wasn't sure what to think towards the end of that day.) Let me spell it out: there was a strong case you were scum that day even if you hadn't flipped as having a PR on N2. I and lots of other people thought so, including iSoc.

Why would it make any difference if she was alive? She was a commuter. There's no advantage to voting a dead player, at least not SM. I could easily have picked FS or WP who are VT, what difference would it have made whether they would verify anything? As for SBG, I voted for him on D3 before switching my vote to you. I was suspicious of him and it hadn't emerged at that point that SM was a commuter, so I wasn't to know there were other possibilities. It's entirely plausible that I would investigate someone I actually voted to lynch, after you came out as doctor. As for the inference that you were scum based on having a PR: as I already said, my FoS wasn't based purely on that fact. You were aggressively pushing to lynch a townie (and me, for that matter.) It simply added to my reasons for thinking you were scum. Put it this way: if you'd come up as VT, I would have been less suspicious of you (at least to some degree.) Lastly, I reiterate that I didn't need to roleclaim. I was under suspicion, but not immediate pressure of being lynched. The wagon was forming on LS. It would have been cleverer to wait it out, if I were scum.

I made a roleclaim of a common role with (assuming I am scum) a very live possibility of someone else out there with this role, and I included my name (which anyone else out there could have.) Given that there's a wagon forming on LS, I'd have to be nuts to do that this early (or at all.) And, my console is Steam. Just as easy could be a fake file claim given and fake name. I reiterate that it would be taking a not insignificant risk to claim a common role and to provide a name. But I've made my point. Edit: oh, do you mean that TW could have provided scum with safe names and roles? @The Warrior Can you confirm whether you did that or not?

I made a roleclaim of a common role with (assuming I am scum) a very live possibility of someone else out there with this role, and I included my name (which anyone else out there could have.) Given that there's a wagon forming on LS, I'd have to be nuts to do that this early (or at all.) And, my console is Steam.

off topic: but which system? Also who is to blame all i can say i am only able to vote i wish there was more people to prove me why they think such people are scum You mean what timezone? Aussie. And now for my defence... I'm Professor Trelawney, town tracker. The first night I investigated SM, with no result. Second night I investigated Rhizo and saw him target CoD. Third night I investigated SBG and saw nothing (which, by the way, given the possibility of ninja doesn't say much.) This explains why I was suspicious of Rhizo, although I wasn't certain. Although he has turned out to be the doctor I stand by my claim that it was a reasonable inference he was scum, even without knowing that he had some kind of PR. That combined with the PR put him above 50% odds in my eyes. The fact that he was pushing so hard to lynch iSoc was one of the things that made me think that iSoc was town. The only suspicious thing I have done this game (other than standing up for a known townie) is vote for WP. Remember though that I originally had my vote on SLMK. If you look back I voted for him relatively early on and kept my vote on him for quite some time including when he was within hammer range. I could've tossed a coin between him and MK, as could most of the rest of you if you're being honest with yourselves. I don't think the fact that I voted for him says much. There's plenty more that I could say, but we'll see how this goes down with everyone first. P.S. LS claimed that I'm a "very experienced player". Not that it matters to whether I'm scum or not in the slightest, but I've actually only played two games before. It's also untrue that I haven't mentioned SBG much. On the contrary, I've been somewhat suspicious of him since iSoc mentioned him on D3.

lol. guys. there's nothing sinister about my silence. I got Skyrim recently and have been playing from dawn til dusk (or rather, from 12pm when I wake up to 2am when I go to sleep. it's uni break here.) Off to sleep again now, but I promise I'll make a note to be more talkative when I wake up.

fs whatever you are on i need some

And is it just me or is there nobody who suspected Kitkat here? Makes me more suspicious of him, actually, since scums would avoid mentioning his scum friends. Other than Rhizo, CoD, Kevin and to some extent SBG and KC you mean?

I always say "in the absence of any other information" it's best to go after inactives. In this case, we have other information. But in the interest of full disclosure ... 59 Rhizoctonia 44 Kitkat16 39 Lyner 36 Finster Baby 35 SeaBeeGipson 35 LordSunday 34 Wolfpacks 30 King Cankles 26 FS108 20 Yehom 18 Chaplain of death 18 KevinH It's tough to see myself on the bottom, but I have not been able to post much due to some real life issues (in particular having to screen-share during work which really cuts into other internet activities). As I said, there is other information and everyone is active enough to vote so it's time again for SuperTownie AnalysisTM +1.0 for being a surviving neighbor: Wolfpacks, FS108 +1.0 for claiming doc with no counterclaim: Rhizoctonia +0.5 for voting no-lynch day 1: Finster Baby, Chaplain of death, King Cankles, FS108, KevinH, LordSunday +1.0 for voting to lynch SLMK the scum day 2: Finster Baby, Chaplain of death, LordSunday, Lyner, SeaBeeGipson, Yehom -1.0 for voting for Wolfpacks day 2: FS108, Rhizoctonia, Kitkat16 -0.5 for voting for iSocialism day 3: FS108, Rhizoctonia, LordSunday, SeaBeeGipson, Yehom, KevinH, Wolfpacks, Kitkat16 -5.0 for being investigated as scum: LordSunday 1.5 Finster Baby 1.5 Chaplain of death 1 Lyner 0.5 SeaBeeGipson 0.5 Yehom 0.5 Wolfpacks 0.5 King Cankles 0 FS108 0 KevinH -0.5 Rhizoctonia -1 Kitkat16 -4 LordSunday I thought iSocialism was the best choice to lynch yesterday. Today, I'm listening to iSocialism. Vote: LordSunday "-0.5 for voting for iSocialism day 3: FS108, Rhizoctonia, LordSunday, SeaBeeGipson, Yehom, KevinH, Wolfpacks, Kitkat16" I didn't vote iSoc. Just sayin'.

Really? Voting for him based purely on the fact that he made two last minute votes? I mean, voting past the deadline is not some kind of genius strategy that is going to throw people off, so I can't really see why KC would do it deliberately. CoD's point that he seems to have rapidly changed his mind about a framer is more apposite, but still nothing that would see me sending KC to the noose when following yesterday we have so many other possible suspects. Agreed. However also bear in mind that in addition to the possibility of the doctor saving the right person that night, we also know now that SM was a commuter, so there are various possibilities as to what could've happened. Still, it's certainly something to bear in mind.

lol. so first you're sold I'm scum for defending iSoc because we're scum buddies, now I'm scum for defending him because he's innocent in any event, I refer you to my post here saying at the end of the day that I was utterly confused about who was who and that there was too much information to process: https://ironcentral.org/community/topic/59765-tw-06-harry-potter-and-the-order-of-the-phoenix-mafia-day-4/page-23?do=findComment&comment=910214

*throws up hands* what an utterly confusing turn of events. in fact, what an utterly confusing day. there's so much going on here it's too much to process. I really don't know what to think anymore. There's just so much stuff to consider. oh well. off to sleep. we'll see what happens in the morning (my time.) catch ya on the flip side, everyone.

I'm planning on doing the side quest to exterminate the entire DB.

sigh whatever. we'll find out who's right soon enough.

I'm playing Skyrim at the moment. What do you make of the Thieves Guild? Ordinarily I'm a chaotic good character and so I gravitate towards the Thieves Guild immediately, but I'm not sure I like this lot. (I'm only at the start, so haven't seen much of them yet.) Are they less.... er.... nice than the Thieves Guild in Oblivion or Morrowind?

Why are you wanting a forced RC? We haven't even solved the current RC were working with and you want more confusion? @KitKat, Why are you so adamant about them both being town? You've been quiet all day and I understand RL, but you just came out of the woodwork with a strong defense of both. You know the only people who for sure who know someone's standings? Scum. Is this some way to twist a defense for your scum buddies? Trying to draw attention away from LS/Isocialism in fear we may hit the right one? Especially mentioning how if everyone jumped on a Rhizo wagon, he'd die. Why rush a new wagon? That desperate to save your scum.buddies? I'm keeping my vote on Isocialism but you have definitely jumped to the top of my list come tomorrow. No, I haven't been quiet all day. I said loads of stuff at the start of the day, and was very vocal in defending iSoc. I also wavered on LS, although wasn't prepared to commit one way or the other. I was undecided whether to vote for LS or for you. This isn't something I've come up with at the last minute. Rather, from reading how the day has panned out, I don't think there's any good explanation for their actions unless they're both townie. Or at least, that's the best explanation. If I wanted LS or iSoc dead, I would have just shut up and voted for one or the other. I could have either of them lynched right now. Look like a scum move to you? Btw, I changed my vote but I'm still not sold that you're innocent, fyi. It's interesting that you're now the one attacking me.

can someone post an updated vote count, i'm far too lazy to bother counting again

Is it? Would it? If I didn't just claim it, would you instantly think it's a ploy? Or would you not think, eh maybe Isocialism hit a scum, and the doctor guessed right and blocked the scum. If Isocialism is scum, scum are in deep shit at that point, especially if those who came to his defense early are his partners. They would need to make a drastic move. I have a feeling I maybe very likely killed tonight likely simply because I'm most vocal town. I also believe Isocialism is lying. Thus if I am killed, I am merely looking to point out any possible plays Isocialism could use to save himself if I'm not here tomorrow. I think he's lying, and thus I've tried to brainstorm at work how could scum play the next few days if I'm not. Not saying this is going to happen, but if something like this happens, maybe at least make people think. I put my thoughts out anytime I have a feeling I maybe gone for people to at least look at after. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You also said it's obvious both are town and I'm not seeing it. If it's so obvious, then what facts am I missing that makes this so obvious? You have a claim from Isocialism that LS is scum, and SBG was blocked. You have SBG claiming he didn't have an action to be blocked, and you have LS claiming to be town. You also have LS claiming he believes the really unlikely chance he was framed over Isocialism being scum. So you have a single individual, whose a Vanilla Town as he claims which means he has zero extra knowledge that he was unlikely framed or there is a framer, and because a claimed VT thinks that, we all should? We have conflict of facts on Isocialism's RC and no way to know at the moment if he's saying the truth, and we have a claimed VT who we don't know is truely a VT or a scum as he's been claimed. I don't know what I'm missing that it's obvious these two are town. The only suggestion these both are town is coming from an opinion of a claimed VT, of a .5% chance. Is there a chance, sure, is it likely, no, but excuse me if I and I bet others don't believe it's likely that .5% chance happened. And if you are so sold they're both town, then why did you not bring up anyone else? You voted SBG yet never elaborated or pushed him all day, and now voted me, 12 hours or w/e before lynch. I didn't elaborate or push him because I haven't been that active until today. As I mentioned earlier, rl stuff going on. Quite frankly, if I was a scum (I'm not sure if you're insinuating that or not, so I'll cover my bases) I would have pushed for whichever of iSoc or LS I knew to be a townie. Heck, I could have hammered LS if I had wanted to and he would be dead already. I didn't because I'm not a scum and didn't want to end the day early. As for what makes me so sure that LS and iSoc are both town: I acknowledge that there's a low chance that iSoc investigated LS and that LS just happened to be framed by an as of yet unconfirmed framer. But I also think that their behaviour is so bizarre (if they are scum) that it outweighs the low chance of that happening. I have said from the beginning that I cannot see iSoc making a roleclaim like this if he wasn't an actual townie. I repeat: he was not in the limelight. Scum generally only fake roleclaim when under pressure and they're doing it as a last roll of the dice. (See: SLMK.) Also remember that we're only on D3. Quite early for a fake scum roleclaim. LS's actions since then have also been weird for a scum, as you have rightly pointed out, especially his insistence that he's been framed and that iSoc is innocent, and his not voting for iSoc. The best explanation of the facts I think is that they're both town. I know who would love to force another person to roleclaim. A scum lol. don't jump the gun. you're not in any serious risk of being lynched at the moment.

lol guys we now have KC, FB and SM all saying that they would take their vote off LS/iSoc were it not for the fact that it wouldn't affect anything there are already two votes on Rhizo, if you all vote for him he'll have five people on him. and we'll avoid lynching people who are clearly innocent. just do it lol

I think it's time to start scum hunting apart from LS and iSoc. SM, you seem rather quiet this game. Penny for your thoughts?