271 replies to this topic

[Chaplain of death]

You can say I'm just trying to blend in but I literally just cast that last vote because Kazio said I cast it without me ever actually posting it. I have no idea why, but instead of correction the moderator I felt like making him correct by then casting my vote. Imran is only L-2 right now because even though I cast my vote after the last vote count, it was already counted in the vote count (mistakenly). Seeing as that only put 2 votes on you and at the time, I didn't think much of putting some pressure on to answer the accusations.

[Chaplain of death]

Votecount 1.02

KevinH (3) - Electric Mango, Rafay, Imran Ehsan
Electric Mango (1) - killgor
killgor (1) - Martino
Rafay (1) - KevinH
Xarastier (0) -
Martino (0) -
Imran Ehsan (1) - Chaplain of death
Preston (0) -
Chaplain of death (0) -

Not Voting (2) - Xarastier, Preston

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
KevinH is the current wagon leader at L-2
Deadline is Saturday, March 22nd, 2012 @ 22:05 EDT

 

You weren't the only one to vote for KevinH, so saying that killing him would be suicide is false. You can easily just make the case (as you are) that the reason you "can't" be scum is that it would be bad for you to kill KevinH after you tried to lead a bandwagon on him and that therefore scum must be trying to set you up. 

 

[Chaplain of death]

Explanations and accusations do not necessitate votes. We are 10 days away from deadline. Putting someone at 2 votes away from being lynched because you are just putting a vote on your best guess, is silly. With so much time before we have to have our minds made up, there is no reason to cast that many votes onto one person. Sparking discussion by random voting is one thing, but this is another.

 

Yes, he was jumping around with his voting, but this is the random voting stage of the game still, so no stock should really be put into who anyone is voting for. It would not suprise me in the least if the 2 scum had voted for each other to throw us off.

 

What does suprise me at this stage in the game is to see someone pushing a lynch on someone over how they random voted and how scummy it makes them look. When did we ever use day 1 voting records to find the 2nd scum (assuming we got the 1st one on day 1)?

 

You're right Imran, I pointed out why his actions were not scummy, and why yours were. I didn't say he must be a townie (because there was nothing to say that he was at that time) but you were and still are the scummiest looking person here. You pushed for a lynch on someone based on behavior that wasn't even scummy, and that player is now dead.

 

Now you are pushing a lynch of me based on behavior that, once again, was not scummy. This is the reason I am voting for you again. Not to get back at you for voting for me. I am voting for you based on 2 facts.

1. You started a wagon on KevinH, who is now dead and confirmed as a townie.

2. You are trying to start a wagon against me who (I know for a fact) is townie. 

 

I therefore can draw no other conclusion at this point than that you are scum. 

[Chaplain of death]

I have high doubts of CoD being scum. Hence I have been following the discussion between him and Martino interestedly. If it was a choice between CoD and Martino I will probably vote for Martino at this point. But with only a couple of days left remaining we need to lynch.

 

I will go back to my first vote for Xarastier. I do not believe he will be helpful to the townies even if he is not scum. He pretty much bandwagons on votes and do no scum hunting at all. So he makes a good lynch target for Day 1 when no one looks scummy enough and we have no records of actions from past days.

 

Vote: Xarastier

 

Why the huge change of heart? First you thought I was scum, then you say you highly doubt me being scum, and now you are back to saying I'm scum. Are you having commitment issues because you don't want to wear it when you are responsible for lynching a townie?

 

 

Well seems I was wrong about KevinH but this kill does give us a very interesting set of info.

 

I will rule out Rafay as scum for the time being as I dont think scum will be killing someone when the sole vote on that guy was from one of them.

 

I will rule out Martino. He was pretty vocal about kevinh being townie on Day 1 and in fact jumped on me for voting for him. Also doubtful scum would show their hands by killing the guy who was voting for one of them (kevins vote on Martino).

 

This leaves killgor, Preston, Xarastier, EM. 2 out of these 4 are scum. 50% odds. I like my odds.

 

Vote: Chaplain of Death

 

I may be wrong but like I said its 50% chance of being right. I chose CoD over the other 3 because I think he was trying to cast suspicion on Martino and get him lynched by killing KevinH. Martino was strongly in favor of lynching CoD on Day 1.

 

With you and Rafay's votes against KevinH, there is enough possibilities for people who would want KevinH dead that you cannot rule out Martino based on that. I agree that once again the argument can be made that such a move would be unwise for the scum, but again by making that argument you also make an argument for just why they would make that move. Also, I could not "jump" on you because my vote was already on you, but I stated reasons for my vote to stay on you. So again, ruling Martino out as scum and then accusing me is quite silly.

 

You also voted for KevinH with Rafay, subtle how you tried to make us forget that by saying Rafay had the sole vote on him.

 

Now you are trying to play the odds in a pool of people that you diminished with fake arguments. So now that we see how many people from your point of view could be scum lets adjust your percentage.

 

      25% chance of getting "scum" (counting you out since I'm doing this from your "point of view").

Now if we look at this from the more likely reality.

      87.5% chance of getting a townie. (counting you as scum since that is what you appear to be.)

Yeah I bet you like your odds.

[Xarastier]

Imran, you said you were in cavorted of lynching on Day 1...

Hey EM.  No need to correct.  The word you created  sounds so cool, and conveys its meaning of approved, accepted and preferred.

 

I'm still in cavorted of hanging Cod and Imran.  Imran first.  

[Xarastier]

Imran, you said you were in cavorted of lynching on Day 1...

Hey EM.  No need to correct.  The word you created  sounds so cool, and conveys its meaning of approved, accepted and preferred.

 

I'm still in cavorted of hanging Cod and Imran.  Imran first.  

Oops!  I meant i'm in cavorted of hanging Rafay not Cod.  Wow.  I know you guys are gonna  have a field day with this one.

[Kaziocore]

Votecount 2.02

Electric Mango (1) - Preston
killgor (0) -
Rafay (0) -
Xarastier (0) -
Martino (0) -
Imran Ehsan (3) - Xarastier, Chaplain of death, killgor
Preston (0) -
Chaplain of death (1) - Imran Ehsan

Not Voting (3) - Electric Mango, Rafay, Martino

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Imran Ehsan is/are the current wagon leader/s at L-2
Deadline is Tuesday, April 9, 2013 @ 01:29 EDT

[Imran Ehsan]

 

 

 

 

You weren't the only one to vote for KevinH, so saying that killing him would be suicide is false. You can easily just make the case (as you are) that the reason you "can't" be scum is that it would be bad for you to kill KevinH after you tried to lead a bandwagon on him and that therefore scum must be trying to set you up. 

 

 

EM pretty much votes for EM on Day 1 in every game. It was a random vote. Rafay's vote also did not have much justification on it but just that he "thought" kevinH was scum.

 

My vote however was the first non-random vote of the Day. kevinH was switching around votes continuously which in my view is very scummy.

 

Explanations and accusations do not necessitate votes. We are 10 days away from deadline. Putting someone at 2 votes away from being lynched because you are just putting a vote on your best guess, is silly. With so much time before we have to have our minds made up, there is no reason to cast that many votes onto one person. Sparking discussion by random voting is one thing, but this is another.

 

Yes, he was jumping around with his voting, but this is the random voting stage of the game still, so no stock should really be put into who anyone is voting for. It would not suprise me in the least if the 2 scum had voted for each other to throw us off.

 

What does suprise me at this stage in the game is to see someone pushing a lynch on someone over how they random voted and how scummy it makes them look. When did we ever use day 1 voting records to find the 2nd scum (assuming we got the 1st one on day 1)?

 

 

 

Yes. And then you quickly retreated from your stance and unvoted because you were trying to blend in. Something that Martino called you out for and nearly got you lynched on Day 1.

 

 

You pushed for a lynch on someone based on behavior that wasn't even scummy,

 

Another completely FALSE statement. KevinH's behavior of continuous switching of votes was scummy. In fact it was the scummiest move anyone made on Day 1.

 

 
 

Why the huge change of heart? First you thought I was scum, then you say you highly doubt me being scum, and now you are back to saying I'm scum. Are you having commitment issues because you don't want to wear it when you are responsible for lynching a townie?

 

 

This is completely FALSE. I didnt suspect you as scum on Day 1. I had suspicions on kevinH. But after how the day ended with a split vote and the target for the scums kill on Night 1, you seem like one of the clear scum to me. Now you are just making up stuff about how I first thought you were scum and then said not scum.

 

 

ps: i hate the quote system on this forum

[killgor]

Now you are pushing a lynch of me based on behavior that, once again, was not scummy. This is the reason I am voting for you again. Not to get back at you for voting for me. I am voting for you based on 2 facts.

1. You started a wagon on KevinH, who is now dead and confirmed as a townie.

2. You are trying to start a wagon against me who (I know for a fact) is townie. 

 

I therefore can draw no other conclusion at this point than that you are scum. 

 

faulty logic is faulty. but you're the only one i'm almost sure is townie so what ever...

[killgor]

also, yes, the quote system is awful.

[Martino]

First of all, I am sorry that I haven't been active the last couple of days. I moved back from Pittsburgh to the Netherlands this weekend. I really need to get some sleep now, but I will give my thoughts tomorrow.

 

Now you are pushing a lynch of me based on behavior that, once again, was not scummy. This is the reason I am voting for you again. Not to get back at you for voting for me. I am voting for you based on 2 facts.

1. You started a wagon on KevinH, who is now dead and confirmed as a townie.

2. You are trying to start a wagon against me who (I know for a fact) is townie. 

 

I therefore can draw no other conclusion at this point than that you are scum. 

 

faulty logic is faulty. but you're the only one i'm almost sure is townie so what ever...

But before I go to sleep, I did want to ask you why are you almost sure that he is a townie?

[killgor]

it's based on his meta.

 

First of all, I am sorry that I haven't been active the last couple of days. I moved back from Pittsburgh to the Netherlands this weekend. I really need to get some sleep now, but I will give my thoughts tomorrow.

 

But before I go to sleep, I did want to ask you why are you almost sure that he is a townie?

 

cause of his meta. during the last games he also went on omgus crazes and responded in similar fashions. and he was a townie in both.

[Chaplain of death]

 

 

Explanations and accusations do not necessitate votes. We are 10 days away from deadline. Putting someone at 2 votes away from being lynched because you are just putting a vote on your best guess, is silly. With so much time before we have to have our minds made up, there is no reason to cast that many votes onto one person. Sparking discussion by random voting is one thing, but this is another.

 

Yes, he was jumping around with his voting, but this is the random voting stage of the game still, so no stock should really be put into who anyone is voting for. It would not suprise me in the least if the 2 scum had voted for each other to throw us off.

 

What does suprise me at this stage in the game is to see someone pushing a lynch on someone over how they random voted and how scummy it makes them look. When did we ever use day 1 voting records to find the 2nd scum (assuming we got the 1st one on day 1)?

 

Yes. And then you quickly retreated from your stance and unvoted because you were trying to blend in. Something that Martino called you out for and nearly got you lynched on Day 1.

 

Well actually no, I withdrew my vote because I wanted the day to continue so that we could scum hunt. Apparently making the most Townie move possible in the situation makes me scum, go figure?

You pushed for a lynch on someone based on behavior that wasn't even scummy,

 

Another completely FALSE statement. KevinH's behavior of continuous switching of votes was scummy. In fact it was the scummiest move anyone made on Day 1.

 

 KevinH was random voting trying to get a discussion going. His votes during the RVS mean nothing. The fact that you took that as a "scum move" and tried to get him lynched was the scummiest move on day 1. He succeeded in getting discussion happening by getting you to step up and accuse him (incorrectly).

 

Why the huge change of heart? First you thought I was scum, then you say you highly doubt me being scum, and now you are back to saying I'm scum. Are you having commitment issues because you don't want to wear it when you are responsible for lynching a townie?

 

 

This is completely FALSE. I didnt suspect you as scum on Day 1. I had suspicions on kevinH. But after how the day ended with a split vote and the target for the scums kill on Night 1, you seem like one of the clear scum to me. Now you are just making up stuff about how I first thought you were scum and then said not scum.

 

Looking back at day 1 I now see you are correct. You did not accuse me day 1 (I got your accusations on day 2 mixed up with Martino's on day 1 because both are based on nothing), I apologize for this mistake. you only had a change of heart once, not twice, since you have changed from not believing me to be scum to accusing me of such. I still fail to see any good evidence to support your accusation that I am scum. I cannot very well shoot it down as false if you do not present any argument other than "he's scum kill him and don't ask questions!".

 

 

 

Also, I agree the quoting system sucks. Was trying to work on this post and just got fed up and used a different color. Sorry if its difficult to read.

[Xarastier]

it's based on his meta.

 

First of all, I am sorry that I haven't been active the last couple of days. I moved back from Pittsburgh to the Netherlands this weekend. I really need to get some sleep now, but I will give my thoughts tomorrow.

 

But before I go to sleep, I did want to ask you why are you almost sure that he is a townie?

 

cause of his meta. during the last games he also went on omgus crazes and responded in similar fashions. and he was a townie in both.

Right on Killgor!  Because of "meta", both moderators KevenH and Kaziocore will never designate us mafia 

[killgor]

Right on Killgor!  Because of "meta", both moderators KevenH and Kaziocore will never designate us mafia 

 

where did you get that from?

[Xarastier]

Right on Killgor!  Because of "meta", both moderators KevenH and Kaziocore will never designate us mafia 

 

where did you get that from?

You miss my point Killgore.  I was referring to Cod as you intimated in your previous quote.  Not you.  

[Xarastier]

Ediit:

You miss my point Killgore.  I was referring to Cod and I as you intimated in your previous post.  Not you:

 

"cause of his [Cod] meta. during the last games he also went on omgus crazes and responded in similar fashions. and he was a townie in both."

[Martino]

Quote of Killgor: 

cause of his meta. during the last games he also went on omgus crazes and responded in similar fashions. and he was a townie in both.

 

I would argue that the way in which someone plays can only be used to cast suspicions on someone. If they usually do X (and so far they have always been a townie), but now they do Y it is suspicious because something must have prompted that change in behavior. However, if they did X in the last few games as a townie, it does not mean they are a townie if they do X. In fact, if they are scum, they will probably try to do X to avoid suspicions about changes in behavior. 

 

Ok, so the rest of this post turned out to be quite a wall of text. Anyway, I will summarize what happened since my last post and give my thoughts on it. 

The case Xarastier makes against Imran makes little sense to me. If I understand Xarastier correctly, he says that Imran and Rafay are scum because of four quotes. (I have paraphrased the quotes and given my thought between parentheses)

1)    They both voted for KevinH (at the time KevinH had 3 votes, I’m not sure what makes Xarastier think both scum must be voting for him at this point)

2)    Neither of them voted for CoD when he was at L-1 or L-2 (not too sure why that makes them scum either).

3)    Imran says he thinks 2 out of the following 5 people are scum: CoD, killgor, Preston, Xarastier, EM . Imran decides to vote for CoD at this point. (The list Imran made is not that far-fetched in my opinion. Though I am personally not yet ready to consider Rafay a definite townie)

4)    Rafay stated that he wouldn’t have killed KevinH if he was scum since he was the only one voting for KevinH, so it was bound to cause some suspicion. (The defense is logical. While I don’t agree that there is no way the scum kills KevinH if Rafay is scum, I don’t see anything suspicious about this post.  

 

So all in all, I don’t see much in there that makes Imran and Rafay suspicious. Certainly nothing that makes both of them scum. Though Xarastier does not mention it, my interpretation is that he makes the Imran-Rafay connection because Rafay is one of two players Imran clears as town. However, assuming that Imran is scum for a moment, I don’t see why he would necessarily want to put his scum buddy on the cleared list like that. If we find out that Imran is scum, we would discard his list anyway. If we find out that Rafay is scum, this would make Imran suspicious since he tried to clear him. 

If Imran is scum, I would be more inclined to believe that Rafay is not and Imran was simply trying to get Rafay to side with him by being the first to clear him as a townie. In any case, apart from Imran clearing Rafay, I don’t see anything in there that indicates Imran is scum. The case that Rafay must be scum because KevinH got killed is pretty weak as well. Anyway, it is good to see Xarastier make that case, since it led to some very interesting posts. 

 

Killgor mentioned shortly after Xarastier’s post that he thought it made sense. So Killgor, could you perhaps try to explain what in your eyes is the case against Imran and Rafay?

 

In the next vote count, our mod initially makes a mistake and, at some point, accidently reports that both Xarastier and CoD were voting for Imran. Then the most remarkable thing so far happens as CoD decides to vote for Xarastier “to make Kazio correct”. No reason, not even agreeing with any reasons, just a vote because the mod accidently reported him voting for someone. Yeah right.

 

EM, calls out Imran for not responding to one of his posts (Imran later answers that he was quite busy due to CN events (which makes sense)). EM also calls out CoD for voting for no reason and CoD completely ignores him.

 

Killgor decides to vote for Imran “because the game is stalling”. So now we have Imran at 3 votes and we are still waiting for someone to give us a real reason. Xarastier tried to give his reasons, but as discussed above they were unclear to me. However, CoD and Killgor both look extremely suspicious for simply jumping on the bandwagon for no reason. 

 

Preston makes a long post and I found myself agreeing with most of it. What it comes down to is that he believes that CoD is a townie and that EM might be scum. As for EM being scum, I was somewhat suspicious of him myself. However, he seems to be getting more involved in the scum hunting currently. Basically, his D2 play so far is much more like the EM that I remember than his D1 play was. Anyway, I am still reasonably sure that CoD is scum and it seems unlikely that CoD and EM are both scum.

 

Preston’s main argument for CoD being a townie is that, as a scum, CoD would not have unvoted Imran after he went to L-1 and then L-2, unless Imran is the other scum. This is actually a really interesting point as I initially started prodding CoD for exactly that reason. I felt that his bandwagon unvote was what he would have done if both he and Imran were scum. After that CoD started acting suspicious and I became convinced that he at least was scum. Regardless, while my main suspicions have been on CoD, I don’t think that Imran has been cleared in any way. So unless we find out that Imran is not scum, I don’t think we can clear CoD because of his unvote.

 

In fact, if you look at the transition from D1 to D2 it is truly remarkable. At the end of D1, Imran did not think that CoD was a good target at all and CoD was convinced that I was scum. Then, as EM points out, at the start of D2, Imran comes out attacking CoD. CoD seems to mainly ignore me and tries to conveniently slip a vote in on Imran when the mod makes a mistake. It would almost seem like they discussed the situation during the night, they concluded that CoD was most likely toast, that his unvote could bring unwanted attention to Imran, and that they thus needed to distance from each other. So my guess at the moment would be that CoD and Imran are scum together. However, the case against Imran relies heavily on CoD being scum. Therefore, I would greatly prefer to lynch CoD before Imran. If he is scum, I think we have won. If he turns out to be a townie, we need to be very careful with our next move.  

 

vote: CoD

 

Anyway to summarize my post:

-    I am pretty sure Preston is a townie. There have been a few posts now where he posted exactly what I was thinking on some subjects. 

-    I am still convinced CoD is scum. His vote for Imran without giving any reason made me even more certain.

-    I don’t think the current case against Imran is strong.

-    However, if CoD is scum, Imran is most likely his scum partner.

 

[killgor]

no thanks, i'll use meta as i please. i think limiting something to just one use is a waste of resources.

 

as for the post rafay said is not eligible, i didn't say i agree with it or that it's crystal clear. i said it's one of his better posts. if you read it 2-3 times you can get a idea of what he thinks.

[Martino]

no thanks, i'll use meta as i please. i think limiting something to just one use is a waste of resources.

You can use it as you please. And we will tell you when you are using it in a way that does not make any sense.  If you haven't seen him play scum, then how do you know he only plays like this when he is town?

 

 

as for the post rafay said is not eligible, i didn't say i agree with it or that it's crystal clear. i said it's one of his better posts. if you read it 2-3 times you can get a idea of what he thinks.

 

You said, and I am quoting you here, "well rafay, this is actually one of the posts where he makes some sense.". That would seem to indicate that you could follow his logic. Especially since a few posts later you add your vote for Imran as well. That is why I asked you what you believed to be the case that he was making. I can read it 2-3 times and come up with something myself. But I want to know what you thought it was.