1277 replies to this topic

[Imran Ehsan]

@Perez: You are still avoiding my question.

 

@Shah: If Perez is scum (as I strongly believe so), then here are two possibilities:

 

1. He is the scum Watcher and ccabal is town watcher. So he used his action on me and saw ccabal, Lyner and Yehom use their actions on me. He knows ccabal is a Watcher as well and yehom claimed bodyguard. They targetted and killed Mandarijn, so the only ones without known roles are Lyner, EM and you. He saw Lyner use his action on me and not you or EM. So they deduced Lyner is the doc. In a game with so many cops there is bound to be a doc. He knows if he claims Watcher, he will immediately be known as scum bc it is extremely doubtful that there will be 2 same roles for townies. So instead he plays the Voyeur card and only reveals what actions were made knowing very well ccabal will confirm him as ccabal would have seen him visit me as well. I think the reason for them using their watcher to target me was to find the doc. They were not sure who the doc was and they were betting the doc will protect me. In that scenario, I would say at least one of EM or Shah, is Perez's scum partner. And probably one from Finster, iSocialism is the 3rd/4th scum.

 

or

 

2. And this is what is much more likely. Both ccabal and Perez are scum. ccabal Watched me at night to find the doc. Perez either did the 2nd kill or some other scum action. ccabal informed who performed their actions on me and using the same logic as above identified the Lyner must be the doc. So Perez comes out blazing right as day starts and ccabal backs his claim to basically confirm each other. In this scenario Perez, ccabal and 2 (or 1) out of Shah, EM, FInster and iSoc are scum.

 

Thats the only thing that makes sense to me. Perez was trying to paint Yehom as scum as well, so I dont think Yehom is their scum partner but definitely he was 2-3 partners out there with no claims or fake claims.

[KevinH]

Q: Why is a droid mechanic never lonely?
A: Because he's always making new friends.


Vote Count

The Warrior (1): Perez,
Perez (1): Imran Ehsan,
Yehom (1): Shahenshah,
Electric Mango (0):
iSocialism (0):
Imran Ehsan (0):
ccabal86 (0):
Shahenshah (0): 
Lyner (0):
Finster Baby (0):

No Lynch (0):

Not voting: Electric Mango, iSocialism, Lyner, The Warrior, Finster Baby, ccabal86, Yehom,

 
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch or 3 at deadline.
Deadline is Sunday, March 6, at 21:00 EST.

[Shahenshah]

@Perez: You are still avoiding my question.

 

@Shah: If Perez is scum (as I strongly believe so), then here are two possibilities:

 

1. He is the scum Watcher and ccabal is town watcher. So he used his action on me and saw ccabal, Lyner and Yehom use their actions on me. He knows ccabal is a Watcher as well and yehom claimed bodyguard. They targetted and killed Mandarijn, so the only ones without known roles are Lyner, EM and you. He saw Lyner use his action on me and not you or EM. So they deduced Lyner is the doc. In a game with so many cops there is bound to be a doc. He knows if he claims Watcher, he will immediately be known as scum bc it is extremely doubtful that there will be 2 same roles for townies. So instead he plays the Voyeur card and only reveals what actions were made knowing very well ccabal will confirm him as ccabal would have seen him visit me as well. I think the reason for them using their watcher to target me was to find the doc. They were not sure who the doc was and they were betting the doc will protect me. In that scenario, I would say at least one of EM or Shah, is Perez's scum partner. And probably one from Finster, iSocialism is the 3rd/4th scum.

 

or

 

2. And this is what is much more likely. Both ccabal and Perez are scum. ccabal Watched me at night to find the doc. Perez either did the 2nd kill or some other scum action. ccabal informed who performed their actions on me and using the same logic as above identified the Lyner must be the doc. So Perez comes out blazing right as day starts and ccabal backs his claim to basically confirm each other. In this scenario Perez, ccabal and 2 (or 1) out of Shah, EM, FInster and iSoc are scum.

 

Thats the only thing that makes sense to me. Perez was trying to paint Yehom as scum as well, so I dont think Yehom is their scum partner but definitely he was 2-3 partners out there with no claims or fake claims.

 

No, I think Perez is just confusing the roles and made a noob mistake like Rusken and so you're totally running off the wrong whiff. 

[Yehom]

Yehom, awaiting your response.

Here is my long overdue response, life has been very busy

 

You know if you were truly a townie, you wouldn't want townies to go around role claiming at this stage. Anyone smart enough can deduce things down to a certain point. IMO you and scum team are just trying to pinpoint the doctor for the night kill. That's a real real scummie move. You guys are trying to see who is the doc, myself or Lyner Or maybe EM. If I make a role claim, then you guys will have pretty much everything pinned down. 

I’m not bothered by the fact that you haven’t role claimed yet. I do however have an issue with the fact that you have yet to bring any information to the table, yet you want a voice in everything that has happened so far. Almost everybody else has provided information to the table, explaining what happened last night, who did what etc, but you have brought nothing but questions.

 

You've been a suspect pretty much through out the game.

And you know why I was a ‘suspect’ through out the game and it was funny to see you bandwagon against me on D2, after Robert’s wild guessing and weird assumptions, but if you really insist you know that I’ve role claimed bodyguard and this has been proven by other people who saw me protecting Imram last night

 

Yehom you're just throwing mud around hoping it sticks

I didn’t make any hard accusations against you. I only asked why it was that you were acting suspicious in my eyes. A simple explaination would have been sufficient to prove your innocence, but you went out of your way to try to put this on me, must mean something right?

[Perez]

Also Perez, if you note I haven't voted for you. Also boohooing doesn't do any good, tbh, it sounds like a deflection.
- You've made claims that tW said he is a vig, I'm simply asking you to tell us where you got that from. Do you have some other information on tW, if you do, tell us and it could help us.

- You accused that tW killed someone as he is x shot commuter, but commuter doesn't kill, He runs away from town so he can't be killed unless lynched. Do you have any information to disprove that? If not, then what you're saying is either just a silly mistake and getting confused with a role or you're just trying to push hard on tW with factually wrong information.

- You said despite the chance you might be falling for the trap on lynching tW, you're going to still go ahead despite the fact the information you yourself has brought forward is not being able to stand the scrutiny. WUT!?

- You claimed cop protecting Imran, again, you either have the role confused as cop doesn't protect, but investigates or you're again pushing a certain tangent but with factually wrong information.

I'm sorry but there is nothing wrong with asking you go back up your claims. We're doing due delligence here, We don't want a townie lynched again just because you arrived at a certain conclusion based on the information that is not correct and you're going emo after being asked to back up that information.

Either you're scummie or making a noob mistake like Rusken did. If I wasn't cautious after Rusken scenario, I would have had switched my vote already, Rusken got lynhced for far less inconsistency.


And Imran, sorry, but I dont feel Ccabal is the bad guy here. Ccabal, I'd like you to chip in because I currently trust you to be a townie.

 

Ill be honest... Im confused.  

[Finster Baby]

Yeah I'm a touch befuddled as well.

[Lyner]

Alright I'm back

 

After re-reading those pages I noticed some stuffs:

 

1. The choice of target on Night 3

Mandarijn is killed last night because scum noticed he is an investigative role. Mandarijn suspected TW because he flavor targeted him on the first night, now we know TW is a commuter, but I guess Mandarijn thought that TW is a Mafia Ninja since the vague result? Regardless of it, If I was Mafia I won't be that sure if Mandarijn was a cop, and would instead target active people who looks townie(in this regard Robert fits the description and thus got killed), Imran and I wasn't targeted because it's risky. The rests who seems like an active townie are Yehom,TW and Shah(good targets). Mafias targeting Mandarijn means that they are pretty certain that Mandarijn is a cop. Unless the mafias are very observant, then it means TW(who Mandarijn has been pushing to kill) is a scum who finally realized Mandarijn's role(with the help of his scum friends, of course).

 

2. Perez and ccabal working together seems unlikely IMO, it is risky to claim the actions performed since I might as well be a neighborizer or other stuffs.

I'm pretty sure Perez isn't scum since if he is, then his partners haven't been doing a good job

Another point is that it would be risky to fake claim in this game. Sometimes in an open game the mod will give the scum faction a list of unused names and roles though.

 

3. 10 people left

Since we haven't lost yet, it means the likely number of scum are 4 with or without 1 SK(the 2 kills on Night 3 support this setup)., 5 scums means we lost and 3 scums would be too few. SK not killing anyone on night 1 or night 2 might be a number of things.

 

4. I may be able, or not, confirm EM's innocence, but please post your analysis of the game first, the town needs it

 

5. Current scum list: TW, iSoc,ccabal, with Shah and Finster tied at the 4th place. No concrete evidence yet, just those excellent scummy vibes

[Imran Ehsan]

I'm pretty sure Perez isn't scum since if he is, then his partners haven't been doing a good job

 

I get what you are saying, but there are many inconsistencies and "wth" factors in his posts.

 

1. He claims I am scum because Yehom protected me. But he cant say why Yehom will protect me if both of us are scum. We have seen no 3rd party kills in the previous nights which would indicate the presence of a SK or Vig.

 

2. He apparently knew a 2nd kill will be done on this night and pepared his case based on that scenario.

 

3. He is very flaky about his actual role. I dont believe he has clearly come out and said what role he has.

 

4. On D3 he claimed to have a role that he can use every night. We have only seen odd/even tracker/watcher/followers in this game so far. IMO he wasnt sure if he will claim a watcher role so left it vague but made the mistake of revealing earlier he can use actions every night. He may have been worried that the Tracker (Robert) will target him and find out he can use his actions on odd nights, if he had claimed to use them on even nights. They probably targetted Robert for the same reason as well.

 

5. He claims to have seen TW being investigated. If he had that info why didnt he reveal it on earlier days when Mandarijn was still alive and could have confirmed him. Safe claim to do it after Mand died and no one can confirm it. His claim to watch Samus on N2 also is very convenient now that everyone knows Samus was ascetic.

 

6. Add all that to his history of lurking and not doing pretty much anything throughout this game, except for this last day when he seems to have emerged from the night with an agenda, not based on any new info he got from the night, but from something that I still am not sure how he arrived at (i.e. TW, me and Yehom are all scum).

ps: I forgot to add that he also claimed that Yehom is scum because he protected me but conveniently ignored the fact the Lyner (a confirmed townie) also protected me. So one guy protecting me is scum and the other is not. I am not sure how that makes sense.

[Shahenshah]

Yehom, awaiting your response.

Here is my long overdue response, life has been very busy

You know if you were truly a townie, you wouldn't want townies to go around role claiming at this stage. Anyone smart enough can deduce things down to a certain point. IMO you and scum team are just trying to pinpoint the doctor for the night kill. That's a real real scummie move. You guys are trying to see who is the doc, myself or Lyner Or maybe EM. If I make a role claim, then you guys will have pretty much everything pinned down.

I’m not bothered by the fact that you haven’t role claimed yet. I do however have an issue with the fact that you have yet to bring any information to the table, yet you want a voice in everything that has happened so far. Almost everybody else has provided information to the table, explaining what happened last night, who did what etc, but you have brought nothing but questions.

You've been a suspect pretty much through out the game.

And you know why I was a ‘suspect’ through out the game and it was funny to see you bandwagon against me on D2, after Robert’s wild guessing and weird assumptions, but if you really insist you know that I’ve role claimed bodyguard and this has been proven by other people who saw me protecting Imram last night

Yehom you're just throwing mud around hoping it sticks

I didn’t make any hard accusations against you. I only asked why it was that you were acting suspicious in my eyes. A simple explaination would have been sufficient to prove your innocence, but you went out of your way to try to put this on me, must mean something right?

It was I and Mand who led the charge and pressurised the lurkers to step forward, if it wasn't for that, We'd still be as informed as we were on D1. So saying that I haven't contributed to obtaining information is absolutely false. You are right I have asked questions, questions that have led to information being on the table, questions that ensured a good discourse and hopefully also force out bluffs that will be caught.

It's also wierd everyone who has pressurised you at some point in time have ended up dead.

While everyone is focusing on Mand getting killed, nobody here seems to notice that Robert too was killed and that person was on your case since firdt day similar to how Mand was in tWs case. For all we know you could have offered protections knowing Imran was expected to be protected. That would be a nice move to get you off the hook.

And let us not forget Mand didn't really voted for tW. If he had information that would have incriminated tW, he would have shared it instantly. If he investigated tW while he was alive, that means he didn't believe the information to be good enough. If he investigated tW at end then that begs the question why he didn't do it all the time before when he was after tW while having the ability to confirm tW to be scum or not.

Lyner, I have a question, how can Scum deduce Mand was a flavor cop? Mand never gave a hint of his role. So my conclusion is that scum went after Mand because they knew that woukd result in tW becoming a prime suspect and all they need to do is sit back and let townies lynch another townie and do a factional kill at night and I believe then they win if they are 4 as you say?

And we're falling right into that trap!

[Shahenshah]

Alright I'm back

 

After re-reading those pages I noticed some stuffs:

 

1. The choice of target on Night 3

Mandarijn is killed last night because scum noticed he is an investigative role. Mandarijn suspected TW because he flavor targeted him on the first night, now we know TW is a commuter, but I guess Mandarijn thought that TW is a Mafia Ninja since the vague result? Regardless of it, If I was Mafia I won't be that sure if Mandarijn was a cop, and would instead target active people who looks townie(in this regard Robert fits the description and thus got killed), Imran and I wasn't targeted because it's risky. The rests who seems like an active townie are Yehom,TW and Shah(good targets). Mafias targeting Mandarijn means that they are pretty certain that Mandarijn is a cop. Unless the mafias are very observant, then it means TW(who Mandarijn has been pushing to kill) is a scum who finally realized Mandarijn's role(with the help of his scum friends, of course).

 

2. Perez and ccabal working together seems unlikely IMO, it is risky to claim the actions performed since I might as well be a neighborizer or other stuffs.

I'm pretty sure Perez isn't scum since if he is, then his partners haven't been doing a good job

Another point is that it would be risky to fake claim in this game. Sometimes in an open game the mod will give the scum faction a list of unused names and roles though.

 

3. 10 people left

Since we haven't lost yet, it means the likely number of scum are 4 with or without 1 SK(the 2 kills on Night 3 support this setup)., 5 scums means we lost and 3 scums would be too few. SK not killing anyone on night 1 or night 2 might be a number of things.

 

4. I may be able, or not, confirm EM's innocence, but please post your analysis of the game first, the town needs it

 

5. Current scum list: TW, iSoc,ccabal, with Shah and Finster tied at the 4th place. No concrete evidence yet, just those excellent scummy vibes

I'm on your townie list and scum list, what gives

 

You can be a neighbourizor or a doc or something else  , if I roleclaim, you loose that armor of doubt and veil and mafia has everything mapped out and it seems I'm getting on suspect lists because I'm being mum about my role. I'm fine with that, it's bad for me personally but good for the team. My silence can be useful, think about it, deduce it, I dont want to blurt it out for God's sake. Can we please start thinking here? 

 

I honestly believe tW lynch is a trap and a kneejerk reaction that Scum is counting on to win. It's a perfect move. I've seen this happen before, that's why It's stupid to fixate on one target without providing solid information. If Mand had something solid, he should have shared, he didnt, if he did it at end, he wasnt convinced enough to do it earlier, while for the whole game he went after tW. He kept mum, and voted for the night lynchs, what does that tell us? If Mafia deduced Mand was flavor cop (can they?), they'd knew tW would come out clean and it would be another player off the suspect list and by process of elimination, their chances of getting lynched increases! Just think about it, killing Mand was a perfect move! You kill 2 stones with one bird. 

[Imran Ehsan]

holy moly walls of texts.

 

Shah = scum probably

 

(disclaimer: I havent read those walls of texts yet..but i will when i get time)

[Shahenshah]

That's just stupid. Many of my posts in the past are also walls of text and so are yours.

I like how how suddenly I'm on suspect lists out of nowhere trying to protect the doc role and asking everyone to take a step back from kneejerk reactions. I'll ask the townies to take note of this. I sense desperation in lynching tW.

Scum list as of now:
Yehom
Perez
Imran
EM.

Townie List:
Me
Lyner
Ccabal
~Fin


Not Sure: iSoc

[Lyner]

 

I'm pretty sure Perez isn't scum since if he is, then his partners haven't been doing a good job

 

I get what you are saying, but there are many inconsistencies and "wth" factors in his posts.

 

1. He claims I am scum because Yehom protected me. But he cant say why Yehom will protect me if both of us are scum. We have seen no 3rd party kills in the previous nights which would indicate the presence of a SK or Vig.

 

2. He apparently knew a 2nd kill will be done on this night and pepared his case based on that scenario.

 

3. He is very flaky about his actual role. I dont believe he has clearly come out and said what role he has.

 

4. On D3 he claimed to have a role that he can use every night. We have only seen odd/even tracker/watcher/followers in this game so far. IMO he wasnt sure if he will claim a watcher role so left it vague but made the mistake of revealing earlier he can use actions every night. He may have been worried that the Tracker (Robert) will target him and find out he can use his actions on odd nights, if he had claimed to use them on even nights. They probably targetted Robert for the same reason as well.

 

5. He claims to have seen TW being investigated. If he had that info why didnt he reveal it on earlier days when Mandarijn was still alive and could have confirmed him. Safe claim to do it after Mand died and no one can confirm it. His claim to watch Samus on N2 also is very convenient now that everyone knows Samus was ascetic.

 

6. Add all that to his history of lurking and not doing pretty much anything throughout this game, except for this last day when he seems to have emerged from the night with an agenda, not based on any new info he got from the night, but from something that I still am not sure how he arrived at (i.e. TW, me and Yehom are all scum).

ps: I forgot to add that he also claimed that Yehom is scum because he protected me but conveniently ignored the fact the Lyner (a confirmed townie) also protected me. So one guy protecting me is scum and the other is not. I am not sure how that makes sense.

 

 

I do agree that the 1st and 2nd targets are convenient, just like iSoc's claim

 

Now if we can link Perez to his scum friends in a way that makes sense that would be perfect, ccabal is one theory

 

And yes we should start thinking of scum pairs/groups instead of individual scums from now on

 

 

 

 

Lyner, I have a question, how can Scum deduce Mand was a flavor cop? Mand never gave a hint of his role. So my conclusion is that scum went after Mand because they knew that woukd result in tW becoming a prime suspect and all they need to do is sit back and let townies lynch another townie and do a factional kill at night and I believe then they win if they are 4 as you say?

And we're falling right into that trap!

 

 

Because around 80% of Mand's post contains accusations against TW. You wouldn't have that kind of dedication unless you actually had something on him, whatever that may be. Pretty big clues from Mand actually, too bad scums noticed faster.

 

Now about scums noticing it, yes it would be difficult to notice the clues Mand dropped unless you were specifically observing Mand(I myself searched his posts before getting to this conclusion ). Which leads me to believe that TW is scum and his scum friends finally noticed it after the repeated accusations by Mand in day 2 and day 3. Samus claimed cop and shifted scums' priority at night 2.

 

There is of course the possibility that scums just want to trick us, or that we are heading into the wrong direction and scum actually just targeted Mand & Robert because they are both the most active players.

 

Also yes, you look like a townie, as in scum behaving like a model townie. I haven't trusted you yet

 

 

 

Scum is obviously playing the inactive card and by this point every townies need to speak up who he thinks are the most suspicious people, instead of following wagon as scums can quickly blend in.

 

 

Another thing, @iSocialism who do you target last night and why you picked him?

[Shahenshah]

Lyner, do we know when tW was investigated by Mand?

I still believe it's a trap, I have mentioned my reasons above. My only concern is if Mand knew something, why did he hold back. We all trusted Mand to be a townie and if he had come forth and built a case, We'd have a case on tW. Now, I dunno, maybe after so many wrong lynches, I'm being extra cautious. Also, lol you don't need to trust me :-) I don't think I can do more than what I'm doing for town TBH unless you want me to role claim.

[Shahenshah]

Anyway, Would like Finster and EM to chip in, no need to by shy anymore guys.

[Electric Mango]

This has been a really hard game for me to keep up with and I apologize for not bringing you guys my A-game. I have read everything and have read the first few days several times in fact but it is still really hard for me to get my head around everything.

And yes, ISocialism, you should visit me tonight.

[Lyner]

Lyner, do we know when tW was investigated by Mand?

I still believe it's a trap, I have mentioned my reasons above. My only concern is if Mand knew something, why did he hold back. We all trusted Mand to be a townie and if he had come forth and built a case, We'd have a case on tW. Now, I dunno, maybe after so many wrong lynches, I'm being extra cautious. Also, lol you don't need to trust me :-) I don't think I can do more than what I'm doing for town TBH unless you want me to role claim.

 

First night most likely

 

At the second day it wouldn't be beneficial to openly claim you're a cop, much more if your information doesn't contain concrete evidence if someone is a scum(flavor cop is similar like role cop?). Moreover, that day Samus claimed role cop, town would be in a worse position if scum knows two cops right from the start while the town instead doesn't have any info on who's scum

 

At the third day, I don't know

Perhaps Mand is just fishing for more info and expect TW to misspoke since the role's allegiance is a bit ambiguous

 

I'm not advocating to kill TW today, at least not yet, it's only one of likely explanations regarding Mand's death

 

 

I'm more interested in TW's opinion against my accusation

 

And hold your horses about claiming your role, for now

 

 

 

And yes, ISocialism, you should visit me tonight.

 

Well...

[Finster Baby]

Lyner, do we know when tW was investigated by Mand?

I still believe it's a trap, I have mentioned my reasons above. My only concern is if Mand knew something, why did he hold back. We all trusted Mand to be a townie and if he had come forth and built a case, We'd have a case on tW. Now, I dunno, maybe after so many wrong lynches, I'm being extra cautious. Also, lol you don't need to trust me :-) I don't think I can do more than what I'm doing for town TBH unless you want me to role claim.

I'm absolutely paranoid about a bad lynch again. We've been wrong every. single. time.

Hell, I don't even know who to watch tonight.

[Shahenshah]

Mand as flavor cop would have gotten the result that tW is Finn. Problem with that is initially, in movies Fin was scum, but after like the first 20-30? mins, he ends up running away from scum (hence commuter?) and turns out to be a good guy. So perhaps Mand was pressuring tW to perhaps clarify his doubts.

To me, Finn is one of the main good guys in the movies, tho, he has a tinged past, perhaps that's why Mand held on to the info.

I think that explains Mand's hesitancy in determining whether tW is good Finn or bad Finn.

[Shahenshah]

Kevin, can you clarify the flavor cop info also please, just to be sure of above.

Perez, can you share details on Mand investigating tW, can you tell when it was? Can you tell if anyone else was there?