237 replies to this topic

[Bill N Ted]

So I seen this on Facebook from one of my buddies arguing with someone and wanted to know how true of a statement this is? It would put me as an American in a position to somewhat understand Britain and EU's relationship.

Americans Guide to understanding why Brits are happy without the EU:

Imagine if America was part of a Union where it spends $48 Million USD a week, US senators are constantly voted against, over 60% of US Laws are made in Cuba and those laws even override the US Constitution. Mexico and Canada have unrestricted immigration access to the US even if they have criminal records. And one day you break free from all of that now would you not be happy also?

(Disclaimer: We are aware the US would be in open civil war at even the suggestion of that type of Union).

 

Sorry King Hitler I missed this.

 

 

 

Americans Guide to understanding why Brits are happy without the EU:

 

• Imagine if America was part of a Union where it spends $48 Million USD a week..   Yup..  exchange rate has changed a bit of late (lol) but its a ballpark figure.  

• US senators are constantly voted against, and laws implemented against their will that they CANNOT repeal. That is done via a different, non elected legislative branch that implemented the law to begin with.  

• Over 60% of US Laws are made in Cuba and those laws even override the US Constitution.  EU law supersedes the elected government.  

• Mexico and Canada have unrestricted immigration access to the US even if they have criminal records.  Criminal record, disease, can be openly hostile to the native population and bring with them a completely alien culture and beliefs.  Crimes that were rare among the native population become far more common place (looks at the Swedish rape and sexual assault statistics, most; 95%+ committed by non natives).

• And one day you break free from all of that now would you not be happy also?  Yeah happy as fuck to be honest.  Now for the parliament to implement the will of the people or the coming social and political chaos as it becomes clear that the elected people no longer represent the people.  

 

This doesn't mention things like the fishing quotas.  The bulk of the EU fish are caught in UK waters; yet UK fishing fleets are restricted to how much they can catch whilst foreign nationals are free to fish our waters, granted with similar quotas.  So America, pay your fishermen to scrap their vessels, half of the fish you catch off the eastern and western seaboard now belong to Mexico and Canada.  

 

And then your President (another person from a foreign land) came to tell us what to do and there would be consequences if we didn't tow the line.  

 

 

And Europe and generation snowflake was shocked at referendum result.  LOL; me too - I genuinely thought the vote would be rigged for remain! 

[Fermion]

So, the UK doesn't gain anything from being in the EU?

I can't imagine anyone being a part of an international organisation for so long if it didn't benefit them. I already awesome many brevity voters backtracking after seeing the after effects of the exit, most (if not all) had already been predicted.

[Icewolf]

So, the UK doesn't gain anything from being in the EU?

I can't imagine anyone being a part of an international organisation for so long if it didn't benefit them. I already awesome many brevity voters backtracking after seeing the after effects of the exit, most (if not all) had already been predicted.

King Hitler's post is essentially showing the difference between Partnership and Dictatorship. He describes it as being a client state, whereas the reality is that the EU is a partnership. The benefits are many, and people are now seeing those benefits fall away and a lot of people are panicking, and rightly so. Worse, it seems that our political establishment are actively making it worse by turning to total civil war in their own parties rather than providing anything that remotely looks like stability in the face of uncertainty. 

 

I didn't hold Cameron in much esteem, but to resign and walk away from a crises of his own making on the day the pound crashed a record amount...utter fucking coward. 

 

As for some of the comments in this thread about "Generation Snowflake." I'm 25. In 2009 I was 18. My adult life has been recession, austerity, and now it looks like that will last until I am 30. No living generation has gone through something like that. For Britain it has actually been worse than the Great Depression in terms of lost growth. (I know that isn't the case for the USA). If you are 30 you turned 18 in 2004, and had 5 years of solid growth to get your life set up. Ok I bet it wasn't all easy, but do not for a moment presume that this generation is complaining about having it easy. Its been fucking hard for the last 5 years for most of my contempories. I got it lucky, good job straight out of University, better pay than the national average since I was 22, and an inheritance to smooth it out ontop of that. Most people my age don't have that and have had 5 years of no Employment rights, poor job prospects and a generally bleak outlook. Ontop of that the Labour Government's total failure to construct housing stock meant sky high rents and none of the social housing rights the older generation enjoyed. 

 

If the economists are right "generation snowflake" will be the only generation in Living memory to have endured 10 years of economic misery as their starting point in life. 

 

I know there are some of my age who complain too much and aspire too little. I know it can seem like kids whining.  Heaven knows I find it personally irritating because it often feels like all my achievements are ascribed purely to luck without the hard work I put in. But please just remember that it has been fucking bleak for a lot of us, and it looks a lot bleaker now. 

[Bill N Ted]

As for the people back tracking on their vote; well when you vote for something you vote for it, if you don't understand what it is you are voting for its down to you to educate yourself or be a grown up and accept that you fucked up.  This is nothing new under the sun, how many people voted for New Labour and subsequently regretted it?  How many voted for the Lib Dems and regretted it?  How many people voted for Cameron and the Conservative party in 2008 and regret it?  One of my Euroskeptic friends has been a Leave voter for months, frothing at the mouth to leave; it came to the ballot box and out of fear she voted Remain, after casting the ballot to remain she instantly regretted it - not to mention that the circle of friends have been teasing her relentlessly about it, regrets work both ways..

 

How many times have you had a few too many; the beer goggles are well and truly on and you wake up next to a girl that resembles a bloody ewok that you took home last night and then regretted it?  I have

 

I was driving to work 3 years ago and needed to fart; I regret farting as I followed through and shit myself.  Had to go home, shower and change then go and scrub the shit out of the drivers seat before I could attempt to drive back to work.  I really regret that fart; everyone regrets something, its life.

 

 

So, the UK doesn't gain anything from being in the EU?

I can't imagine anyone being a part of an international organisation for so long if it didn't benefit them. I already awesome many brevity voters backtracking after seeing the after effects of the exit, most (if not all) had already been predicted.

King Hitler's post is essentially showing the difference between Partnership and Dictatorship. He describes it as being a client state, whereas the reality is that the EU is a partnership. The benefits are many, and people are now seeing those benefits fall away and a lot of people are panicking, and rightly so. Worse, it seems that our political establishment are actively making it worse by turning to total civil war in their own parties rather than providing anything that remotely looks like stability in the face of uncertainty. 

 

I didn't hold Cameron in much esteem, but to resign and walk away from a crises of his own making on the day the pound crashed a record amount...utter fucking coward. 

 

As for some of the comments in this thread about "Generation Snowflake." I'm 25. In 2009 I was 18. My adult life has been recession, austerity, and now it looks like that will last until I am 30. No living generation has gone through something like that. For Britain it has actually been worse than the Great Depression in terms of lost growth. (I know that isn't the case for the USA). If you are 30 you turned 18 in 2004, and had 5 years of solid growth to get your life set up. Ok I bet it wasn't all easy, but do not for a moment presume that this generation is complaining about having it easy. Its been fucking hard for the last 5 years for most of my contempories. I got it lucky, good job straight out of University, better pay than the national average since I was 22, and an inheritance to smooth it out ontop of that. Most people my age don't have that and have had 5 years of no Employment rights, poor job prospects and a generally bleak outlook. Ontop of that the Labour Government's total failure to construct housing stock meant sky high rents and none of the social housing rights the older generation enjoyed. 

 

If the economists are right "generation snowflake" will be the only generation in Living memory to have endured 10 years of economic misery as their starting point in life. 

 

I know there are some of my age who complain too much and aspire too little. I know it can seem like kids whining.  Heaven knows I find it personally irritating because it often feels like all my achievements are ascribed purely to luck without the hard work I put in. But please just remember that it has been fucking bleak for a lot of us, and it looks a lot bleaker now. 

 

 

Partnership..  our tax money gets paid to Brussels, Brussels gives us some of that money back with a complimentary "provided by the European Union" sticker, cut out the middleman and redistribute the taxes nationally within our own boarders - why send it to Brussels for them to skim some?

 

I do agree with you on the parties making it worse; the current infighting since our independence vote  with MP David Lammy and now Nicola Sturgeon threatening to block the UK exit is horrifying.  These people do not believe in the democracy that they oversee, with any luck they will come to there senses before some enraged pensioner gets all shooty.

 

I got my first full time professional job as the recession hit.  My first 6 months in work were the worst I have had to endure, dragging my ass out of bed every morning to go to work knowing that I am going to work simply to pay off debt and loans that got me through university and keeping enough back to keep petrol in the car and some money for my parents to keep food in the fridge and the electric on.  Money cant buy happiness but its hard to smile when your broke as fuck; generation snowflake are not the only people that have suffered.  

 

My family came from nothing, no wealth, no inheritance.  A number of my family have stayed the same, broke and living life on the edge and making sure that their crimes generally do pay.  I generally have little time or sympathy for the poor, even though my family has gotten out of poverty itself.  Try and work your way out of poverty and its generally not the state but from your fellow poor you will meet resistance, the resistance ranges from intimidation and sometimes violence as they see a crab getting out of the bucket and will do all they can to pull his ass back in.  Then when you do make it out they turn to you and say that you owe them, look at all the mouths I have to feed, and if you don't give back to the community this somehow makes you a callous traitor.  I remember being poor in my youth, I look around now and see for every legitimately down on their luck family member or villager there are at least 20 that did it entirely to themselves and are not trying to do better.  And of course, because I am no longer poor it wasn't down to my own perseverance it was pure luck, and as it was only luck I should share it around.

 

Most people have been poor at some point, there is a difference between being poor and only having enough money to afford the basics in life to utter destitution where you are going through the bins for food or your children are turning to prostitution in order to get anything.  I personally know of 3 people who use food banks, they still find the money in order to smoke 10 a day and go out on a Friday night and maybe buy a little bit of weed as well and complain about being poor.

 

Generation Snowflake really hasn't had it all that bad.  Generation Snowflake hasn't been bombed, conscripted into the forces, had to deal with rationing, have a lot of the people you know dead, go outside to have a crap in the middle of winter, take a broom handle to break the ice in the bottom of the pan before you could let loose then walk away with yesterdays news on your arse as you couldn't afford toilet paper (so you used yesterdays news paper to wipe).  You haven't been restricted to what you can go to the shop and buy, there are jobs out there the legions of eastern europeans in the UK are testament to that.  There seems a reluctance by Generation Snowflake to take any job as long as it pays, working in a supermarket? No way; I have a first class honors degree in Religious Studies (or other non economical / pointless degree) that's beneath me!

 

Since 2008 I have had 3 European holidays, all were four day city breaks to Amsterdam I got cheap and maybe a weekend break in the UK or a week camping in Scotland once a year that basically cost me food and the petrol to get there.  I am still driving around in the same car that I drove to university in, it frankly looks like shit; has many "feature" rattles and noises and occasionally you will hear an expensive sounding noise that I gleefully ignore as I will drive that car until it dies.  I have the worst car in my street and joint worst among my work colleagues; it drives, it works and I own it.  The only thing it costs me is the fuel to run it, the occasional new tyre, tax and insurance.  Contrast this to a number of my other colleagues who are still up to their eyes in student debt, are paying insane amounts of money in rent and have no interest in saving money, pay more to rent a flash looking car that warms their ass on the way to work every morning than I pay in a month on mortgage payments, and they have at least 2 foreign holidays a year, we are talking Vegas, Cancun etc.  The snowflakes that I know are incapable of handling money, they have absolutely no appreciation for it, drive to earn it (they often refuse overtime as they have social commitments) or ability to handle it.  I know one lad who is my age that managed to get himself into £15,000 credit card debt on top of a student loan whilst renting who then went out and bought himself a £10,000 car on credit then complains hes broke; this whilst turning down overtime offers in work as he had made arrangements to go out and piss money that he didn't have up against a wall.

 

Europe is not offering generation snowflake a way out of poverty - you just have to look at the EU's youth unemployment rates to know that, merely political union.  Its up to the individual to drag their own ass out of poverty through the sweat on their brow and their own grit and determination, no amount of hand outs or aid will instill in people a work ethic and the drive to better their own lives it does the opposite, it breeds contempt, apathy and a growing amount of resentment from the young who look up at the older generations and see that they have everything, they wasn't around to see how the older generation got to where they are and the sacrifices that they made to be where they are now.  

[Shahenshah]

As for the people back tracking on their vote; well when you vote for something you vote for it, if you don't understand what it is you are voting for its down to you to educate yourself or be a grown up and accept that you fucked up.  This is nothing new under the sun, how many people voted for New Labour and subsequently regretted it?  How many voted for the Lib Dems and regretted it?  How many people voted for Cameron and the Conservative party in 2008 and regret it?  One of my Euroskeptic friends has been a Leave voter for months, frothing at the mouth to leave; it came to the ballot box and out of fear she voted Remain, after casting the ballot to remain she instantly regretted it - not to mention that the circle of friends have been teasing her relentlessly about it, regrets work both ways..
 
How many times have you had a few too many; the beer goggles are well and truly on and you wake up next to a girl that resembles a bloody ewok that you took home last night and then regretted it?  I have
 
I was driving to work 3 years ago and needed to fart; I regret farting as I followed through and shit myself.  Had to go home, shower and change then go and scrub the shit out of the drivers seat before I could attempt to drive back to work.  I really regret that fart; everyone regrets something, its life.
 

 

So, the UK doesn't gain anything from being in the EU?
I can't imagine anyone being a part of an international organisation for so long if it didn't benefit them. I already awesome many brevity voters backtracking after seeing the after effects of the exit, most (if not all) had already been predicted.

King Hitler's post is essentially showing the difference between Partnership and Dictatorship. He describes it as being a client state, whereas the reality is that the EU is a partnership. The benefits are many, and people are now seeing those benefits fall away and a lot of people are panicking, and rightly so. Worse, it seems that our political establishment are actively making it worse by turning to total civil war in their own parties rather than providing anything that remotely looks like stability in the face of uncertainty. 
 
I didn't hold Cameron in much esteem, but to resign and walk away from a crises of his own making on the day the pound crashed a record amount...utter fucking coward. 
 
As for some of the comments in this thread about "Generation Snowflake." I'm 25. In 2009 I was 18. My adult life has been recession, austerity, and now it looks like that will last until I am 30. No living generation has gone through something like that. For Britain it has actually been worse than the Great Depression in terms of lost growth. (I know that isn't the case for the USA). If you are 30 you turned 18 in 2004, and had 5 years of solid growth to get your life set up. Ok I bet it wasn't all easy, but do not for a moment presume that this generation is complaining about having it easy. Its been fucking hard for the last 5 years for most of my contempories. I got it lucky, good job straight out of University, better pay than the national average since I was 22, and an inheritance to smooth it out ontop of that. Most people my age don't have that and have had 5 years of no Employment rights, poor job prospects and a generally bleak outlook. Ontop of that the Labour Government's total failure to construct housing stock meant sky high rents and none of the social housing rights the older generation enjoyed. 
 
If the economists are right "generation snowflake" will be the only generation in Living memory to have endured 10 years of economic misery as their starting point in life. 
 
I know there are some of my age who complain too much and aspire too little. I know it can seem like kids whining.  Heaven knows I find it personally irritating because it often feels like all my achievements are ascribed purely to luck without the hard work I put in. But please just remember that it has been fucking bleak for a lot of us, and it looks a lot bleaker now. 
 

 
Partnership..  our tax money gets paid to Brussels, Brussels gives us some of that money back with a complimentary "provided by the European Union" sticker, cut out the middleman and redistribute the taxes nationally within our own boarders - why send it to Brussels for them to skim some?
 
I do agree with you on the parties making it worse; the current infighting since our independence vote  with MP David Lammy and now Nicola Sturgeon threatening to block the UK exit is horrifying.  These people do not believe in the democracy that they oversee, with any luck they will come to there senses before some enraged pensioner gets all shooty.
 
I got my first full time professional job as the recession hit.  My first 6 months in work were the worst I have had to endure, dragging my ass out of bed every morning to go to work knowing that I am going to work simply to pay off debt and loans that got me through university and keeping enough back to keep petrol in the car and some money for my parents to keep food in the fridge and the electric on.  Money cant buy happiness but its hard to smile when your broke as fuck; generation snowflake are not the only people that have suffered.  
 
My family came from nothing, no wealth, no inheritance.  A number of my family have stayed the same, broke and living life on the edge and making sure that their crimes generally do pay.  I generally have little time or sympathy for the poor, even though my family has gotten out of poverty itself.  Try and work your way out of poverty and its generally not the state but from your fellow poor you will meet resistance, the resistance ranges from intimidation and sometimes violence as they see a crab getting out of the bucket and will do all they can to pull his ass back in.  Then when you do make it out they turn to you and say that you owe them, look at all the mouths I have to feed, and if you don't give back to the community this somehow makes you a callous traitor.  I remember being poor in my youth, I look around now and see for every legitimately down on their luck family member or villager there are at least 20 that did it entirely to themselves and are not trying to do better.  And of course, because I am no longer poor it wasn't down to my own perseverance it was pure luck, and as it was only luck I should share it around.
 
Most people have been poor at some point, there is a difference between being poor and only having enough money to afford the basics in life to utter destitution where you are going through the bins for food or your children are turning to prostitution in order to get anything.  I personally know of 3 people who use food banks, they still find the money in order to smoke 10 a day and go out on a Friday night and maybe buy a little bit of weed as well and complain about being poor.
 
Generation Snowflake really hasn't had it all that bad.  Generation Snowflake hasn't been bombed, conscripted into the forces, had to deal with rationing, have a lot of the people you know dead, go outside to have a crap in the middle of winter, take a broom handle to break the ice in the bottom of the pan before you could let loose then walk away with yesterdays news on your arse as you couldn't afford toilet paper (so you used yesterdays news paper to wipe).  You haven't been restricted to what you can go to the shop and buy, there are jobs out there the legions of eastern europeans in the UK are testament to that.  There seems a reluctance by Generation Snowflake to take any job as long as it pays, working in a supermarket? No way; I have a first class honors degree in Religious Studies (or other non economical / pointless degree) that's beneath me!
 
Since 2008 I have had 3 European holidays, all were four day city breaks to Amsterdam I got cheap and maybe a weekend break in the UK or a week camping in Scotland once a year that basically cost me food and the petrol to get there.  I am still driving around in the same car that I drove to university in, it frankly looks like shit; has many "feature" rattles and noises and occasionally you will hear an expensive sounding noise that I gleefully ignore as I will drive that car until it dies.  I have the worst car in my street and joint worst among my work colleagues; it drives, it works and I own it.  The only thing it costs me is the fuel to run it, the occasional new tyre, tax and insurance.  Contrast this to a number of my other colleagues who are still up to their eyes in student debt, are paying insane amounts of money in rent and have no interest in saving money, pay more to rent a flash looking car that warms their ass on the way to work every morning than I pay in a month on mortgage payments, and they have at least 2 foreign holidays a year, we are talking Vegas, Cancun etc.  The snowflakes that I know are incapable of handling money, they have absolutely no appreciation for it, drive to earn it (they often refuse overtime as they have social commitments) or ability to handle it.  I know one lad who is my age that managed to get himself into £15,000 credit card debt on top of a student loan whilst renting who then went out and bought himself a £10,000 car on credit then complains hes broke; this whilst turning down overtime offers in work as he had made arrangements to go out and piss money that he didn't have up against a wall.
 
Europe is not offering generation snowflake a way out of poverty - you just have to look at the EU's youth unemployment rates to know that, merely political union.  Its up to the individual to drag their own ass out of poverty through the sweat on their brow and their own grit and determination, no amount of hand outs or aid will instill in people a work ethic and the drive to better their own lives it does the opposite, it breeds contempt, apathy and a growing amount of resentment from the young who look up at the older generations and see that they have everything, they wasn't around to see how the older generation got to where they are and the sacrifices that they made to be where they are now.  

Tldr: the regretful fart.

[Icewolf]

As for the people back tracking on their vote; well when you vote for something you vote for it, if you don't understand what it is you are voting for its down to you to educate yourself or be a grown up and accept that you fucked up.  This is nothing new under the sun, how many people voted for New Labour and subsequently regretted it?  How many voted for the Lib Dems and regretted it?  How many people voted for Cameron and the Conservative party in 2008 and regret it?  One of my Euroskeptic friends has been a Leave voter for months, frothing at the mouth to leave; it came to the ballot box and out of fear she voted Remain, after casting the ballot to remain she instantly regretted it - not to mention that the circle of friends have been teasing her relentlessly about it, regrets work both ways..
 
How many times have you had a few too many; the beer goggles are well and truly on and you wake up next to a girl that resembles a bloody ewok that you took home last night and then regretted it?  I have
 
I was driving to work 3 years ago and needed to fart; I regret farting as I followed through and shit myself.  Had to go home, shower and change then go and scrub the shit out of the drivers seat before I could attempt to drive back to work.  I really regret that fart; everyone regrets something, its life.

So, the UK doesn't gain anything from being in the EU?

I can't imagine anyone being a part of an international organisation for so long if it didn't benefit them. I already awesome many brevity voters backtracking after seeing the after effects of the exit, most (if not all) had already been predicted.

King Hitler's post is essentially showing the difference between Partnership and Dictatorship. He describes it as being a client state, whereas the reality is that the EU is a partnership. The benefits are many, and people are now seeing those benefits fall away and a lot of people are panicking, and rightly so. Worse, it seems that our political establishment are actively making it worse by turning to total civil war in their own parties rather than providing anything that remotely looks like stability in the face of uncertainty. 
 
I didn't hold Cameron in much esteem, but to resign and walk away from a crises of his own making on the day the pound crashed a record amount...utter fucking coward. 
 
As for some of the comments in this thread about "Generation Snowflake." I'm 25. In 2009 I was 18. My adult life has been recession, austerity, and now it looks like that will last until I am 30. No living generation has gone through something like that. For Britain it has actually been worse than the Great Depression in terms of lost growth. (I know that isn't the case for the USA). If you are 30 you turned 18 in 2004, and had 5 years of solid growth to get your life set up. Ok I bet it wasn't all easy, but do not for a moment presume that this generation is complaining about having it easy. Its been fucking hard for the last 5 years for most of my contempories. I got it lucky, good job straight out of University, better pay than the national average since I was 22, and an inheritance to smooth it out ontop of that. Most people my age don't have that and have had 5 years of no Employment rights, poor job prospects and a generally bleak outlook. Ontop of that the Labour Government's total failure to construct housing stock meant sky high rents and none of the social housing rights the older generation enjoyed. 
 
If the economists are right "generation snowflake" will be the only generation in Living memory to have endured 10 years of economic misery as their starting point in life. 
 
I know there are some of my age who complain too much and aspire too little. I know it can seem like kids whining.  Heaven knows I find it personally irritating because it often feels like all my achievements are ascribed purely to luck without the hard work I put in. But please just remember that it has been fucking bleak for a lot of us, and it looks a lot bleaker now.

 
Partnership..  our tax money gets paid to Brussels, Brussels gives us some of that money back with a complimentary "provided by the European Union" sticker, cut out the middleman and redistribute the taxes nationally within our own boarders - why send it to Brussels for them to skim some?
 
I do agree with you on the parties making it worse; the current infighting since our independence vote  with MP David Lammy and now Nicola Sturgeon threatening to block the UK exit is horrifying.  These people do not believe in the democracy that they oversee, with any luck they will come to there senses before some enraged pensioner gets all shooty.

They do believe in democracy, they are doing the thing they were elected to do. They are both elected by a small constituency rather than the entire UK (one as an MSP, one as an MP), and therefore are both obliged to respresent the views and wishes of that constituency, and defend its best interests. If they believe that those that elected them would like to have the referendum ignored, then it is there democratic duty to work to have it overturned.
 
 
 
 
 
 

I got my first full time professional job as the recession hit.  My first 6 months in work were the worst I have had to endure, dragging my ass out of bed every morning to go to work knowing that I am going to work simply to pay off debt and loans that got me through university and keeping enough back to keep petrol in the car and some money for my parents to keep food in the fridge and the electric on.  Money cant buy happiness but its hard to smile when your broke as fuck; generation snowflake are not the only people that have suffered.  
 
My family came from nothing, no wealth, no inheritance.  A number of my family have stayed the same, broke and living life on the edge and making sure that their crimes generally do pay.  I generally have little time or sympathy for the poor, even though my family has gotten out of poverty itself.  Try and work your way out of poverty and its generally not the state but from your fellow poor you will meet resistance, the resistance ranges from intimidation and sometimes violence as they see a crab getting out of the bucket and will do all they can to pull his ass back in.  Then when you do make it out they turn to you and say that you owe them, look at all the mouths I have to feed, and if you don't give back to the community this somehow makes you a callous traitor.  I remember being poor in my youth, I look around now and see for every legitimately down on their luck family member or villager there are at least 20 that did it entirely to themselves and are not trying to do better.  And of course, because I am no longer poor it wasn't down to my own perseverance it was pure luck, and as it was only luck I should share it around.
 
Most people have been poor at some point, there is a difference between being poor and only having enough money to afford the basics in life to utter destitution where you are going through the bins for food or your children are turning to prostitution in order to get anything.  I personally know of 3 people who use food banks, they still find the money in order to smoke 10 a day and go out on a Friday night and maybe buy a little bit of weed as well and complain about being poor.
 
Generation Snowflake really hasn't had it all that bad.  Generation Snowflake hasn't been bombed, conscripted into the forces, had to deal with rationing, have a lot of the people you know dead, go outside to have a crap in the middle of winter, take a broom handle to break the ice in the bottom of the pan before you could let loose then walk away with yesterdays news on your arse as you couldn't afford toilet paper (so you used yesterdays news paper to wipe).  You haven't been restricted to what you can go to the shop and buy, there are jobs out there the legions of eastern europeans in the UK are testament to that.  There seems a reluctance by Generation Snowflake to take any job as long as it pays, working in a supermarket? No way; I have a first class honors degree in Religious Studies (or other non economical / pointless degree) that's beneath me!
 
Since 2008 I have had 3 European holidays, all were four day city breaks to Amsterdam I got cheap and maybe a weekend break in the UK or a week camping in Scotland once a year that basically cost me food and the petrol to get there.  I am still driving around in the same car that I drove to university in, it frankly looks like shit; has many "feature" rattles and noises and occasionally you will hear an expensive sounding noise that I gleefully ignore as I will drive that car until it dies.  I have the worst car in my street and joint worst among my work colleagues; it drives, it works and I own it.  The only thing it costs me is the fuel to run it, the occasional new tyre, tax and insurance.  Contrast this to a number of my other colleagues who are still up to their eyes in student debt, are paying insane amounts of money in rent and have no interest in saving money, pay more to rent a flash looking car that warms their ass on the way to work every morning than I pay in a month on mortgage payments, and they have at least 2 foreign holidays a year, we are talking Vegas, Cancun etc.  The snowflakes that I know are incapable of handling money, they have absolutely no appreciation for it, drive to earn it (they often refuse overtime as they have social commitments) or ability to handle it.  I know one lad who is my age that managed to get himself into £15,000 credit card debt on top of a student loan whilst renting who then went out and bought himself a £10,000 car on credit then complains hes broke; this whilst turning down overtime offers in work as he had made arrangements to go out and piss money that he didn't have up against a wall.
 
Europe is not offering generation snowflake a way out of poverty - you just have to look at the EU's youth unemployment rates to know that, merely political union.  Its up to the individual to drag their own ass out of poverty through the sweat on their brow and their own grit and determination, no amount of hand outs or aid will instill in people a work ethic and the drive to better their own lives it does the opposite, it breeds contempt, apathy and a growing amount of resentment from the young who look up at the older generations and see that they have everything, they wasn't around to see how the older generation got to where they are and the sacrifices that they made to be where they are now.

There hasn't been a generation that had it as bad as you described in decades. Its not really fair of you to complain "Oh poor generation snowflake, they didn't have it as bad as a 1900s liverpudlian peasant therefore nothing is wrong for them."

And whilst in the EU this country has better economic potential than outside of it. You can say that an individual can pull themselves up and make themselves better in a crap economic backdrop. You can't say that for an entire society.

[Lysistrata]

The only reason I suspect I am still employed as a person who delivers European Regional Development Funding is because Whitehall is too fucked up right now to have the organisation to sack me. The government didn't plan for this so expect chaos. That is direct from senior civil servants I have to deal with. 

I had to go back and read this again to understand the gravity. You are employed by the EU. Your job is all about the UK being a member state of the EU. You will eventually lose your job because of this decision. Your opinion about the Brexit is biased to the extreme degree, and I can now understand why many British citizens probably consider you an enemy. It reminds me of "Schindler's List", if you ever saw the movie... the Nazi's appointed special Jewish citizens to help organize the Jewish settlement population in the residential ghetto "prison". They were all eventually slaughtered, but that's a different part of the story. I don't know Ice... I would want to get right with history, and start working for your country and not for Europe. Good luck Sir.

[ccabal86]

Woah, comparing the EU to Nazi Germany is quite a stretch, even if you do't like the EU.

[onbekende]

Thought icewolf was employed by the UK to work out projects in the UK for which the EU gives money.

 

Now if only they can alocate the same amount of cash themselfes as the EU gave before all should be fine for him. Probably not, the economy plummeting will make sure of that.

 

Still hilarious that people are blaming Farage thou (for that £320m to NHS), at best you should be annoyed at Leave for not speaking out against his ludricous claims but just letting them keep going.

[Icewolf]

 

The only reason I suspect I am still employed as a person who delivers European Regional Development Funding is because Whitehall is too fucked up right now to have the organisation to sack me. The government didn't plan for this so expect chaos. That is direct from senior civil servants I have to deal with.

I had to go back and read this again to understand the gravity. You are employed by the EU. Your job is all about the UK being a member state of the EU. You will eventually lose your job because of this decision. Your opinion about the Brexit is biased to the extreme degree, and I can now understand why many British citizens probably consider you an enemy. It reminds me of "Schindler's List", if you ever saw the movie... the Nazi's appointed special Jewish citizens to help organize the Jewish settlement population in the residential ghetto "prison". They were all eventually slaughtered, but that's a different part of the story. I don't know Ice... I would want to get right with history, and start working for your country and not for Europe. Good luck Sir.

 

 So delivering innovation hubs and start up enterprise support, along with training for socially excluded persons to help them get back to the job market is the same as collaborating with Nazis to commit an act of mass murder? 

 

Christ...there is some dumb shit posted here but that really takes the piss. 

 

Or maybe delivering funding to encourage business innovation in a region that has notoriously poor levels of innovation and low levels of pay is secretly seeking the overthrow of the United Kingdom and ensuring the total mastery of Furhrer Juncker? 

 

There are UK regions now begging the government to ensure that they replicate the same funds into the same priorities after this vote. Doesn't exactly sound to me like I was inflicting mass damage that should be compared to a genocide. 
 

Thought icewolf was employed by the UK to work out projects in the UK for which the EU gives money.
 
Now if only they can alocate the same amount of cash themselfes as the EU gave before all should be fine for him. Probably not, the economy plummeting will make sure of that.
 
Still hilarious that people are blaming Farage thou (for that £320m to NHS), at best you should be annoyed at Leave for not speaking out against his ludricous claims but just letting them keep going.

I am employed by a County Council to deliver funding that is provided by the EU correct. People can sneer all they like, but in my region there is essentially no other economic development funding. No funds for apprenticeships, not funds for really tackling social exclusion, no funds for building the business support networks to nurture and support SMEs and business startups. Nothing. Take us out and all you get are the few pennies thrown towards infrastructure projects, and even for those people were getting ready to go cap in hand to the European Investment Bank. 

 

Which for a region that is consistently bottom on productivity, business start up rates and average weekly wages is really a bit of a problem. 

 

Vote Leave painted that lie on the side of their battle buses. Its total bollocks for them to try and back away from it now, but now they are even talking about pulling back on their immigration promises. I don't actually think there is a true statement left in their campaign documents. Wheels have well and truly fallen off that pile of crap.

[Lysistrata]

So delivering innovation hubs and start up enterprise support, along with training for socially excluded persons to help them get back to the job market is the same as collaborating with Nazis to commit an act of mass murder?    Christ...there is some dumb shit posted here but that really takes the piss.

Obviously, taken completely out of context. You are a British citizen, working in the UK, for the Europeans, enforcing European will. I can understand why many of your own people would not trust you. They view it as a foreign government. Cry xenophobia... that'll work.

[Theophilos]

One of the best things about BREXIT is sitting back and watching all the funny money and ludicrous PE ratios go up in flames.  

 

Long may the stock markets burn; one day we will get back to the market setting prices and not the central banks.  One day Mr Market will be in control by hook or by crook and the grand fiat ponzi will be done.  

 

Here's to freedom and democratically (flawed as democracy is) elected leaders o/

 

Long may we have the ballot to sack the bastards when they get greedy or fuck things up o/

 

 

Note, I  keep refering to Britain, because it is at least likely that nothing else will be left.
 
Sorry to burst your bubble

I have to agree with him here. The UK will probably fracture. Scotland will go its own way. There's movement in Northern Ireland to unify with Ireland.

Not sure what the Welsh will do, so it'll be England and Wales. Hardly a UK.

 

 

 

The Scottish wont leave the union.  You just have the SNP banging the referendum drum again, if an English man so much as farts north of the border the SNP are going on about a new independence referendum.  Scotland could barely afford to go it alone last time, now with oil a third of the price it was at given the last referendum oil price of around $110 a barrel it sure ain't going to afford it any more.  Plus you have income tax differences between Scotland and the rest of the UK (Scottish are higher).  

 

As for Northern Ireland I doubt that also.  If it wasn't for the British army (though they themselves caused issues) being in Northern Ireland it would have been a civil war (again) in Ireland.  It was only 17 years ago that the Good Friday Agreement came into effect bringing about peace in god knows how many years of bloodshed.

 

The question at the ballot was "do you think the UK should remain part of the EU"; not "if we leave the EU do you want the SNP to then break Scotland from the Union" or "If we leave the EU do you want to become a part of a United Ireland where you have been busy killing yourselves since the formation of the Church of England".  

 

Leaving the EU and leaving the UK are totally separate issues.  That hasn't stopped a spree of freedom and referendum requests today.  Hell even Spain has jumped on the bandwagon and is asking for joint sovereignty of Gibraltar.  

 

 

The Rock of Gibraltor has voted 95% in favor of remaining in the EU thus We (Spain) now want joint sovereignty over the island.  Lets ignore the fact that it was an EU membership referendum and make it a sovereignty issue - in 2002 Gibraltar was asked did it want a joint sovereignty with Spain - 98.5% of people said no; they wanted to remain British.

 

Fast forward 14 years later and Spain are now saying that due to the massive vote to remain Gibraltar should become joint sovereign territory.   Why would there be such a large "Remain" vote in Gibraltar; nothing to do with the frequent border closures on the Spanish side?  Where Spain has made the life of the islanders a misery for god knows how many years?  Hmm  why would Gibraltar vote to remain in the EU?  

 

It must be because they want joint sovereignty between the UK and Spain.  LOL SPAIN     

 

 

 

Pity that hag Cristina Kirchner is no longer in power in Argentina, we would be having demand made on the Falklands before the referendum 

 

Yes and no (Re Scotland). We are not talking about 'normal' reactions here, but rather Scots reacting to a choice that was made for them (and against their popular will) by the English (ignoring the Welsh vote for a moment). If SNP spins it correctly and acts fast enough, the leave vote is quite plausible.

 

 

Well we shall see whether the EU is here to stay or not. The next few 20 or so years will tell, but I'm not about to make any bets.

 

I bet on Britain leaving, and was right. I'm happy to bet on EU. Doesn't mean I agree with it, but I'll take that bet.

 

 

Alas (for Britain), you are mistaken. This is indeed the final courtain on Britain's aspiration to mean somehing again. Years will pass, EU will persevere and Britain... well Britain will have been forgotten.

 

lmaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

Note, I  keep refering to Britain, because it is at least likely that nothing else will be left.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble

 

i'm still laughing

 

 

By all means. Do remember that, when Britain starts begging to be let back in and the 27 start laughing

 

The Malvinas should absolutely be part of Argentina!

You bring up some valid points, but I suspect Scotland has enough impetus to make an independence vote take this time. Might be a disaster for them but I'm sure Bruxelles will be more than happy to float them a loan after the requisite 60 reams of paperwork are filled out.

 

The Malvinas / Falkland Islands depending upon from where you hail are a part of the South American continent.  No doubt, however they have been inhabited by British settlers prior to the 1800's and since the early 1800's where Britain reasserted its claim.  The Louisiana purchase took place roughly 30 years prior to the UK reasserting its claim on these islands.

 

This is the problem with countries, things get sticky and icky and usually comes down to nationality and ethnicity - the people make the country.  One of my many reasons to vote out; the natives are becoming a rare breed in our own lands; currently 1 in 10 people in the UK were not born here and as far as I am concerned foreign.  I voted not to become a minority in my own lands where my children's birth right is simply given away by unelected officials in a foreign land to people who are non native, do not share our customs, indeed bring alien customs to our shores and become hostile when told "no".  

 

Fuck forced multiculturalism.  

 

 

Except that net immigration from EU is less than that from the Commonwealth. Are you planing to propose that the Commonwealth be dissolved as well?

 

aaaah, the "my society is so tolerable to just myself" assertion, lovely.

 

I am for immigration; my own girlfriend is foreign (Lithuanian).  I just dont want the third world dumped on my doorstep and have to deal with all the problems they bring with them.  I work with people of many nationalities, I have no issues with them as they have come to the UK with something to offer and they work hard. 

 

I don't want the unwashed masses of the third world that demand my society change in order to accommodate them all the while holding the beggar bowl out pleading think of my children - now give me free healthcare, housing and social benefits whilst I decry how much I hate your country and the people in it.   

 

Vet people coming into the country; bring on a system like Australia, have something to offer? Great welcome aboard the 20:16 BREXIT train; don't meet the criteria? GTFO; there is a 20:18 Gravy Train heading for Brussels we have enough of our own poor simpletons without adding you into the fold.  

 

I don't owe anyone my culture, I don't owe them my future; I don't owe them my country and I sure as hell don't owe them a free life on welfare.  Want a free country?  Do what my forebears did and go back and fight for it; in the mean time maybe you should stop imprisoning rape victims for adultery and create a country where you actually want to live in.

 

 

What has 'the third world' have to do with the Brexit vote?

Scotland turned down independence from the UK not too long ago, and some of you now believe Scotland will want independence now, because the UK leaves the EU? Then Scotland only wants to be UK for the EU? I'm confused...

 

I don't think this will be the last domino to fall. Soon others will want out as well. The global economy of the long romanced "One World" society is crumbling before our eyes. Humans will always desire their own identity, be masters of their own destiny, and excel in a competitive world. My British cousins decided they wanted to stay Englishmen, and the USA has your back no matter what the idiot currently in the White House says. Socialism sucks.

 

I beg to differ, the British did not in fact decide that they want "stay Englishmen". I would say a great deal many of them would be offended by being called English (be it in NI, Scotland or Wales)...

[Bill N Ted]

 

 

There hasn't been a generation that had it as bad as you described in decades. Its not really fair of you to complain "Oh poor generation snowflake, they didn't have it as bad as a 1900s liverpudlian peasant therefore nothing is wrong for them."

And whilst in the EU this country has better economic potential than outside of it. You can say that an individual can pull themselves up and make themselves better in a crap economic backdrop. You can't say that for an entire society.

 

 

This describes 1960-70's Welsh Valleys pretty aptly.  This describes the old people that voted Leave and has upset Generation Snowflake with their vote (whom no one has had it as bad as).

My parents still have the shitter out in the back yard; granted they now have 2 toilets and the bathroom inside but the outdoor shitter remains for storage these days.  I guess they didnt knock it down and send it into history because of so many happy memories.  My father and uncle (60 and 69), often tell us (me and my brother) how nice it is to have running water and heating as we take everything for granted, often telling us the days of having to have a bath in a tin tub that would be placed in the living room next to the open coal fire, usually they wouldn't change the water in between siblings that jumped in before them - with good old carbolic soap.  The Welsh Valleys were destitute for some time; they still are poor, but generally people were happy in their communities even though they had nothing by modern standards.  

 

Cold in the winter?  Yeah best get outside and get the coal in; no central heating.  The bin collector is still called the "ashcart" by many in the welsh valleys, as they didnt used to collect much in the way of waste just dead coal embers and the resulting ash.  The house I bought we discovered when renovating and pulling off the insulation boards the original old fire places, I have one in every room except my kitchen and bathroom which was annexed off from this room I am in and would thus have shared this fireplace behind my desk. I have a fireplace with a flue (granted boarded up) behind this very desk I am typing on.  

 

We are not talking the 1850's here with Fagin characters sending out street little urchins to pilfer coin purses from people in top hat and tails, literally this is only 50 years ago, post World War 2, into the 60's and early 70's.  Old people remember this.

 

And I would sooner have to walk in the snow 30 yards up the garden to have a crap in the middle of winter or get the coal from the bunker than live under the EU.  If we go back to the 1970's so be it; we have our freedom and we have our democracy even if we do have to have to wipe our derriere with yesterdays news.  

 

There is a fundamental disconnect between city folk and the rest of the country; this is fairly obvious from the voting result maps.  You are not having to deal with the dross that is coming as you live in apartment blocks and likely don't know who your neighbors are, we are living on the front lines of EU immigration and resettlement and are seeing what it is doing to our communities which are being destroyed by it.  You live sheltered lives in the cities, we dont.  

 

Wales is a huge recipient of EU aid, my constituency is one of the poorest in the UK with one of the highest unemployment rates in the UK and a Labour party strong hold - you could have Albert Einstein and a literal Donkey (the animal) with his big ears stood there; stick a Labour rosette on the Donkey and the Donkey will win the vote - even with that in mind, one of the poorest areas, where there is poverty and Labour stronghold has utterly rejected the EU.  

 

Of course you can say that for a society.  Look at China, only 50 years ago it was killing millions of its own people "because" - whilst I utterly disagree with communism and the methods employed by the ruling elite they have pulled the people out of the rice paddies and made a economic juggernaut that unfortunately is steeped in the blood of its own people.  Look at Germany; it was a literal ruin 60 years ago, 2-3 generations later it is the manufacturing center of Europe.  Rubbish; give people the hope, the means and the vision and they will work wonders.

 

 

 

The only reason I suspect I am still employed as a person who delivers European Regional Development Funding is because Whitehall is too fucked up right now to have the organisation to sack me. The government didn't plan for this so expect chaos. That is direct from senior civil servants I have to deal with. 

I had to go back and read this again to understand the gravity. You are employed by the EU. Your job is all about the UK being a member state of the EU. You will eventually lose your job because of this decision. Your opinion about the Brexit is biased to the extreme degree, and I can now understand why many British citizens probably consider you an enemy. It reminds me of "Schindler's List", if you ever saw the movie... the Nazi's appointed special Jewish citizens to help organize the Jewish settlement population in the residential ghetto "prison". They were all eventually slaughtered, but that's a different part of the story. I don't know Ice... I would want to get right with history, and start working for your country and not for Europe. Good luck Sir.

 

 

Lysistrata, all animals are created equal, though some are more equal than others.

 

I saw what you have highlighted some time ago; hence my spirited "why are you drinking the socialist koolaid" posts that came after.  As I said some time ago, the pigs will defend their trough.  Hopefully the gravy train will end and many many people who don't have meaningful jobs are sent to the unemployment line no longer able to suck off the fat of the land.  Those that end up in the unemployment line I hold no ill will against, I hope they will swiftly become productive members of society and out of whatever hardship they find themselves in.

 

Though I honestly hope; from the bottom of my stone, poor people despising heart that after this there will be an absolute bonfire of career politicians in the UK who only look out for themselves.  Bring in a UK Constitution where our sovereign laws can no longer be over ridden by foreign nationals or courts; all UK MP's must be born in the UK and if they are from immigrant families those families must have been here legally and be nationalized citizens, not here on visas.  Any attempt to change the UK constitution must be made by a 80% Commons majority followed by a legally binding referendum put to nationalized citizens of the UK whom must be residing in the country to be allowed to vote.  

 

Give the encouragement, give the people the dreams and freedom and you will have a nation.  All Icewolf has offered is "the old folks have sent us down the river"; I am so upset in democracy, why don't people see things my way, OMG I will be out of a job.  I am also a public employee (NHS), I may be up for the chop when money gets tight, so what?  Welcome to being a big boy in a big bad world, we may be dirt poor on the outcome but fuck it we have our freedom and we have each other.

 

If Remain had any valid points you would have had a positive election based on "if you stay in the EU" X,Y,Z will happen which are all positive things and we genuinely think you will agree and will vote for; instead all we have had is Pig after Pig that wants to defend the trough come on stage and tell us how bad things are going to be for us; we even had Barry Obama come to this land and tell us how to vote or else.  Seriously America; we have so much in common and this fuckwit comes here telling us whats in our best interest or else?  Don't be mad at him, he was sent as a blessing from whatever god you believe in, Barry Obama really did so much for democracy in the UK I hope he gets a little addendum in the history books as the writers describe him as being "worse than Nixon".

 

Remain / AKA Project Fear only had one slant, and it was "do as we say, vote remain or the world will end"; 17 million people have either called their bluff or said the same as me, fuck it, its time to watch the world burn 

[Theophilos]

 

Scotland turned down independence from the UK not too long ago, and some of you now believe Scotland will want independence now, because the UK leaves the EU? Then Scotland only wants to be UK for the EU? I'm confused...

 

I don't think this will be the last domino to fall. Soon others will want out as well. The global economy of the long romanced "One World" society is crumbling before our eyes. Humans will always desire their own identity, be masters of their own destiny, and excel in a competitive world. My British cousins decided they wanted to stay Englishmen, and the USA has your back no matter what the idiot currently in the White House says. Socialism sucks.

 

Many thanks Lysistrata.

 

Scotland has not asked for independence following the BREXIT vote, only the Scottish National Party (SNP).  Please refer to my earlier post of an Englishman farting north of the border for further explanation or here for a partisan though less so than my own explanation.

 

Parties can ask for and demand whatever they want; though as in Wales my home country in the UK the political parties are totally disconnected from the public.  For an outsider this could be confusing (I am unaware of your knowledge so apologies if this is patronising) the UK has devolved governments within the Kingdom, Wales has the Senedd or what I refer to as "The Pantomime down at the Bay (Cardiff Bay)", Holyrood Scotland, Stormont in Belfast Northern Ireland.  Parliament, London, England.

 

Each have their own elected officials within their own country in ADDITION to members of Parliament (in London) that represent them whom they also elect.  

 

The SNP in Scotland are calling for a referendum on remaining in the UK, this is a separate issue to the UK leaving the EU. This is a regional assembly/parliament getting above itself again.  

 

As a Welshman National Assembly being created at the Senedd AKA The Pantomime down at the Bay.  I treat them with the utter contempt that they deserve; the Scots however seem to have caught Braveheart Fever and are usually calling for a referendum for this or that at the behest of the SNP for whatever whimsical notion best fits the bill.  This doesn't correlate to the will of the voting public however.  

 

I love Scotland, its great and if you have never been I would thoroughly recommend it; but the government is made up of third rate hacks much like what I have to put up with in Wales; though thankfully my local worthless politicians are not calling for referendums left right and center although the majority called for the electorate to vote "Remain".  

 

Cameron resigned; Carwyn Jones my Pantomime leader thus far has avoided the chopping block.  I personally hope he is sent to the unemployment line.  

 

Politics 101 - don't trust the fuckers - the pigs always defend their trough.  

 

 

Hurrah for leaving the EU 

 

 

Erm... except for the glaring fact, that the referendum was requested for and granted to one half of one party? If you choose to ignore that fact and then present the above, then in all fairness, yes Scotland requested/asked for independence.

 

The SNP forms the devolved government of Scotland (albeit with limited powers and competences). Democratically elected by a relative majority of the Scots. Thus it can (if it so chooses) request and proceed with a referendum on Scottish independence. For the constitutional niceties to be observed, Westminster need but nod to this.

 

 

Well a big part of the remain campaign for Scotland was that if they left it would be hard to gain EU membership again, majority of Scotland wanted to stay in the EU. It's valid to think that Scotland might leave if there was a referendum in the morning.

This is the United Kingdom we're talking about... this is not a troubled nation that doesn't know how to manage a checkbook. I can't even begin to imagine a world without the UK. You guys gave us Churchill, James Bond, The Beatles, Guinness, and H. G. Wells. It doesn't stop there, and never will... there is just too much to list. You guys are better than the European Union, and if the shit ever hits the fan, I would choose to be next to you, because deep in your DNA... you guys are real badasses. Don't ever sell yourselves short, or believe you can't do something... your history has shown the world that you can do anything.

 

 

Except it is a troubled nation, split down the middle, youger generations pitted against the older generations, Labour and Tories both looking at what appears a substantial membership/leadership crisis, etc etc

[Theophilos]

So I seen this on Facebook from one of my buddies arguing with someone and wanted to know how true of a statement this is? It would put me as an American in a position to somewhat understand Britain and EU's relationship.

Americans Guide to understanding why Brits are happy without the EU:

Imagine if America was part of a Union where it spends $48 Million USD a week, US senators are constantly voted against, over 60% of US Laws are made in Cuba and those laws even override the US Constitution. Mexico and Canada have unrestricted immigration access to the US even if they have criminal records. And one day you break free from all of that now would you not be happy also?

(Disclaimer: We are aware the US would be in open civil war at even the suggestion of that type of Union).

 

This is by far the most ignorant and useless comparison made. Whomever posted that, has clearly no idea whatsoever on how the EU works.

 

The real mistake was putting it up for a vote. David Cameron will go down in history as an idiot, but that's of little consolation.

On the other hand the EU should have known better. There is a reason the average European has a disfavorable view of it, which despite repeated PR campaigns had only gotten worse over the decades.

 

 

 

System of electors in the US... hello?!

 

Did you vote for every member of Hungarian Government as well? If you didn't then your point is moot. When you are trying to apply that requirement for the EU Commission, first apply it to your political system and once you do that, then come back and start pointing fingers.

Exactly my point I'm trying to make. By the time someone is voted on the European Council Commission, the chain is so far off from the popular vote that it can hardly be called a popular vote. Which I'm actually FINE with, because democracy (as evidenced here) certainly has its limits.

 

What I'm trying to do though, is make sense of onbekende's magical world where the EU is a democratic institution focused of social welfare and well-being, where he voted on his Belgian councilor. I suspect false perceptions like that are actually quite widespread and had a good part in the Brexit as well.

 

Oh, I know what you were trying to do. But to be honest I think it was not the best way to go about it. Is there a lack of democratic accountability in the EU. Yes, absolutely.

 

But saying that the EU is undemocratic or that it is not democratic is also not true.

[Bill N Ted]

 

 

Yes and no (Re Scotland). We are not talking about 'normal' reactions here, but rather Scots reacting to a choice that was made for them (and against their popular will) by the English (ignoring the Welsh vote for a moment). If SNP spins it correctly and acts fast enough, the leave vote is quite plausible.

 

 

 

Except that net immigration from EU is less than that from the Commonwealth. Are you planing to propose that the Commonwealth be dissolved as well?

 

 

What has 'the third world' have to do with the Brexit vote?

 

 

The Scots voted to remain part of the UK.  They voted knowing that there was going to be a UK/EU referendum coming up; they voted to remain in the UK and as a member of the UK.  The UK held a democratic referendum and the UK as a whole voted to leave the EU.  

 

I was upset under 13 years of New Labour.  If the Scots want another referendum let them have it, its the SNP calling for it not necessarily the Scottish people.  If Scotland tries to prevent or derail the results of a democratic vote by the Union as a whole I would be inclined to ask for a referendum on removing Scotland from the UK, same with Northern Ireland if they are so inclined - go rejoin Ireland and let us know how that works out.  

 

I hope the Scottish people put Sturgeon back in her box.  

 

I am not proposing an end to immigration from the commonwealth or its dissolution, merely an Australian style points system where you are allowed in if you are a benefit not a drag on the nation.  Turn up on the beach claiming asylum?  Where did you come from, how did you get here?  So you walked though 6 EU member states for the "safety of the UK" which those states couldn't provide you? Deport them.

 

We are having a load of the third world dumped on us.  EU resettlement and our own government allowing in these people.  See EU resettlement quotas; these haven't come out yet but I am very interested to see what they will be in the coming months; good luck with that Europe.  I don't care; fight for your freedoms, don't go holding out the beggar bowl to others; make the country one that you would want to live in rather than fleeing whatever third world shithole you are from and demanding the state your are resettled in comply to your customs and whims - you are a guest in this country and should act like one.

[Lysistrata]

I beg to differ, the British did not in fact decide that they want "stay Englishmen". I would say a great deal many of them would be offended by being called English (be it in NI, Scotland or Wales)...

That's okay... I'm an American, and I know how Texans would get offended if they were mixed with New Yorkers. I understand the turbulent past... but it's one nation, and the Scots even had a vote to affirm that. How would you say it? United Kingdomites?

 

The Scots, the Irish, the English... they all had a vote. They have to live with the decision as the one nation they are.

[Theophilos]

 

So I seen this on Facebook from one of my buddies arguing with someone and wanted to know how true of a statement this is? It would put me as an American in a position to somewhat understand Britain and EU's relationship.

Americans Guide to understanding why Brits are happy without the EU:

Imagine if America was part of a Union where it spends $48 Million USD a week, US senators are constantly voted against, over 60% of US Laws are made in Cuba and those laws even override the US Constitution. Mexico and Canada have unrestricted immigration access to the US even if they have criminal records. And one day you break free from all of that now would you not be happy also?

(Disclaimer: We are aware the US would be in open civil war at even the suggestion of that type of Union).

 

Sorry King Hitler I missed this.

 

 

 

Americans Guide to understanding why Brits are happy without the EU:

 

• Imagine if America was part of a Union where it spends $48 Million USD a week..   Yup..  exchange rate has changed a bit of late (lol) but its a ballpark figure. A proven lie.

• US senators are constantly voted against, and laws implemented against their will that they CANNOT repeal. That is done via a different, non elected legislative branch that implemented the law to begin with. Indeed, as it should be. Law created at the level of the EU is a product of 28 Member states participating in the process. One Member State can not change that (except in areas where specific veto's apply or where the UK had an abrogation). I certainly dobut you would allow a minority of MPs in Westminster repeal laws or would you? Do kindly make comparisons that are truthfull and not exaggerations or outright neglections of facts. I would also remind you that the UK freely opted to join the EU and no one but no one forced it to join...

• Over 60% of US Laws are made in Cuba and those laws even override the US Constitution.  EU law supersedes the elected government.  Re the percentage, that would be a lie. EU law of course does not supersede anything. It siply has primacy over national law in areas where Member Sates have so decided freely and of their own volition, employing their own democratically elected parliments to achieve such delegation of powers to the EU.

• Mexico and Canada have unrestricted immigration access to the US even if they have criminal records.  Criminal record, disease, can be openly hostile to the native population and bring with them a completely alien culture and beliefs.  Crimes that were rare among the native population become far more common place (looks at the Swedish rape and sexual assault statistics, most; 95%+ committed by non natives). Unfactual and untrue.

• And one day you break free from all of that now would you not be happy also?  Yeah happy as fuck to be honest.  Now for the parliament to implement the will of the people or the coming social and political chaos as it becomes clear that the elected people no longer represent the people. Except that almost nothing of the above is true, factual or has anything to do with the reality that is the EU.

 

This doesn't mention things like the fishing quotas.  The bulk of the EU fish are caught in UK waters; yet UK fishing fleets are restricted to how much they can catch whilst foreign nationals are free to fish our waters, granted with similar quotas.  So America, pay your fishermen to scrap their vessels, half of the fish you catch off the eastern and western seaboard now belong to Mexico and Canada. This is untruthfull, and I'm being kind.

 

[Theophilos]

 

 

 

Yes and no (Re Scotland). We are not talking about 'normal' reactions here, but rather Scots reacting to a choice that was made for them (and against their popular will) by the English (ignoring the Welsh vote for a moment). If SNP spins it correctly and acts fast enough, the leave vote is quite plausible.

 

 

 

Except that net immigration from EU is less than that from the Commonwealth. Are you planing to propose that the Commonwealth be dissolved as well?

 

 

What has 'the third world' have to do with the Brexit vote?

 

 

The Scots voted to remain part of the UK.  They voted knowing that there was going to be a UK/EU referendum coming up; they voted to remain in the UK and as a member of the UK.  The UK held a democratic referendum and the UK as a whole voted to leave the EU.  

 

I know perfectly well how the Scots voted. I also strictly qualified my statement and spelled out the assumption under which a vote for independence might be plausible. Everything else you said above is pointless I never disputed anything of what was said.

 

I was upset under 13 years of New Labour.  If the Scots want another referendum let them have it, its the SNP calling for it not necessarily the Scottish people.  If Scotland tries to prevent or derail the results of a democratic vote by the Union as a whole I would be inclined to ask for a referendum on removing Scotland from the UK, same with Northern Ireland if they are so inclined - go rejoin Ireland and let us know how that works out.  

 

My point exactly.

 

I hope the Scottish people put Sturgeon back in her box.  

 

I am not proposing an end to immigration from the commonwealth or its dissolution, merely an Australian style points system where you are allowed in if you are a benefit not a drag on the nation.  Turn up on the beach claiming asylum?  Where did you come from, how did you get here?  So you walked though 6 EU member states for the "safety of the UK" which those states couldn't provide you? Deport them.

 

Again, you are making a pointless argument. Reread my post and then address the points I made - namely that your claim re immigration from EU is false and factualy wrong. I don't care much about what kind of system you want or not, that's entirely up to the UK, personally I couldn't care less, but I do care about untrutfull statements.

 

We are having a load of the third world dumped on us.  EU resettlement and our own government allowing in these people.  See EU resettlement quotas; these haven't come out yet but I am very interested to see what they will be in the coming months; good luck with that Europe.  I don't care; fight for your freedoms, don't go holding out the beggar bowl to others; make the country one that you would want to live in rather than fleeing whatever third world shithole you are from and demanding the state your are resettled in comply to your customs and whims - you are a guest in this country and should act like one.

 

Again, an utrutful statement. EU resetlement wise - Relocations from Greece and Italy by 11 April 2016 to UK add up to a whopping 0.

 

Pledges made (freely) by the UK re refugees amount to a huge and completly overwhelming 2200 refugees. Out fo that pledge 1864 refugees have been resettled. It breaks my heart that the UK can not take care of such incredeably large numbers >.>

 

Seriously, I don't care if you allow no immigrants or only quotas. Do whatever you want it's your country. But do not post untrutful statements.

 

I beg to differ, the British did not in fact decide that they want "stay Englishmen". I would say a great deal many of them would be offended by being called English (be it in NI, Scotland or Wales)...

That's okay... I'm an American, and I know how Texans would get offended if they were mixed with New Yorkers. I understand the turbulent past... but it's one nation, and the Scots even had a vote to affirm that. How would you say it? United Kingdomites?

 

The Scots, the Irish, the English... they all had a vote. They have to live with the decision as the one nation they are.

 

 

Except ... sighs ... they are not a one nation. Seriously, you need to get your facts straight re UK, its 'constitution' etc etc

 

The only reason I suspect I am still employed as a person who delivers European Regional Development Funding is because Whitehall is too fucked up right now to have the organisation to sack me. The government didn't plan for this so expect chaos. That is direct from senior civil servants I have to deal with. 

I had to go back and read this again to understand the gravity. You are employed by the EU. Your job is all about the UK being a member state of the EU. You will eventually lose your job because of this decision. Your opinion about the Brexit is biased to the extreme degree, and I can now understand why many British citizens probably consider you an enemy. It reminds me of "Schindler's List", if you ever saw the movie... the Nazi's appointed special Jewish citizens to help organize the Jewish settlement population in the residential ghetto "prison". They were all eventually slaughtered, but that's a different part of the story. I don't know Ice... I would want to get right with history, and start working for your country and not for Europe. Good luck Sir.

 

 

If you want to get right with history, why not start by not using historical comparisons that have NOTHING to do with Ice or his job or who he works for.

 

The onyl comparion that is merited here is the following. You certainly show the level of tolerance that I dare say a fascist system of any time and any nature would be proud of.

B'n'T to be sure, we actually agree on a great many deal of things. What I do resent seeing from you though is the misuse of facts.

 

To be sure you are fully within your right to support Brexit, I suspect a great deal many of your reasons for doing so are merited. Indeed I wish you, and the UK, nothing but the best in the future (irrespective of some of my tongue in cheek posts above). If you believe that this is the best course for the UK, than that is what it is. I am not and have not been disputing that.

[Samus]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215