344 replies to this topic

[Lysistrata]

I agree we should fix the constitution but everything else I disagree with. If say the West coast decided to make a new country with Alaska Washington, Oregon, Hawaii and California then there would be a huge drop in the GDP for the USA since those states alone take up 19.2% of the Nation's GDP. The coastal states have a huge advantage over landlocked states if there was a split, but anyway that is just nonsense where as climate change that you scoff at is actually happening despite people saying it isn't.

Alaska would favor total independence before joining with socialists. They were promised their oil profits, instead they have been prohibited from drilling. They have never forgiven that betrayal, and would firmly renegotiate statehood, but they will never side with California against the USA. Every business remotely interested in their freedom to earn a profit would leave the idiotic venture... so the GDP of the USA will be just fine. After a few months of chaos, poverty, and invasion from Mexico... the new leadership will be questioned to the point of lawlessness, and then the newly enlightened population of the Socialist States of America would beg the mother country for forgiveness.

 

If the climate changes, we do what the human race has always done... adapt. As soon as these rich liberals are selling their beachfront property for cents on the dollar, then I will believe that they actually believe it. Until then, they're all lying. I lived in Southern California for 38 years... I was born there, and I have lived through some pretty bad earthquakes. One of these days a 12 point mother of all quakes will occur, and it's gonna split that land from Washington to San Diego. That is the real threat to the west coast, and there won't be any Democrats there left to say it's Republicans fault.

[DarkFox]

Alaska would favor total independence before joining with socialists. They were promised their oil profits, instead they have been prohibited from drilling. They have never forgiven that betrayal, and would firmly renegotiate statehood, but they will never side with California against the USA. Every business remotely interested in their freedom to earn a profit would leave the idiotic venture... so the GDP of the USA will be just fine. After a few months of chaos, poverty, and invasion from Mexico... the new leadership will be questioned to the point of lawlessness, and then the newly enlightened population of the Socialist States of America would beg the mother country for forgiveness.

 

 

It wouldn't though. How would the USA import products from China and cheap goods from Asia without the west coast states to receive the cargo vessels? All those goods would be going through the west coast or by airplane. Also Alaska would not survive a day without imports from Washington, Oregon and California so if states were to break off they would join up with the closer states for sure. You are also delusional if you think that Mexico would invade even a fractured USA, the military might in California and Washington is considerable.

 

If the climate changes, we do what the human race has always done... adapt.

 

So you would rather let a little fire become a larger fire and just walk around the flames?

 

As soon as these rich liberals are selling their beachfront property for cents on the dollar, then I will believe that they actually believe it. Until then, they're all lying. I lived in Southern California for 38 years... I was born there, and I have lived through some pretty bad earthquakes. One of these days a 12 point mother of all quakes will occur, and it's gonna split that land from Washington to San Diego. That is the real threat to the west coast, and there won't be any Democrats there left to say it's Republicans fault.

 

How would polluting less effect a fault line? There is a difference between owning property in a place that will probably have a natural disaster versus causing (or according to some scientists speeding up) a disaster

[Lysistrata]

How would the USA import products from China and cheap goods from Asia without the west coast states to receive the cargo vessels?

I have a strong feeling the USA will cut China off soon. They may end up expelled from the WTO. Also, Southern California may choose not to go along with their stupid Northern brothers and sisters... that would solve the invasion problem as well. It's also the reason why we built the Panama Canal.

Also Alaska would not survive a day without imports from Washington, Oregon and California so if states were to break off they would join up with the closer states for sure.

If this ever happens, I forgot to mention that Alaska could very well petition Canada. They might trust them over Washington DC.

You are also delusional if you think that Mexico would invade even a fractured USA, the military might in California and Washington is considerable.

Because of the United States Military... when you give the finger to the Constitution, you give that up as well.

So you would rather let a little fire become a larger fire and just walk around the flames?

It's not a fire... when I go outside, I dress for the weather. The sky is not falling Chicken Little.

How would polluting less effect a fault line? There is a difference between owning property in a place that will probably have a natural disaster versus causing (or according to some scientists speeding up) a disaster

I never said that. What I said was California is crying about a non-issue when they are sitting on a time bomb. The weather is not their problem... their problem is the crust of the Earth.

[onbekende]

Jesus Christ... I have to reply to both of you.

.
We make you work here
.

 

they have been opening new detention centers despite congress saying no

I really have no idea if they're opening new detention centers. I don't care. They should open as many as they need to deal with the problem. What do you want them to do? If you want to let thousands of people to just walk into the USA... you're insane. It's like 9/11/01 didn't happen in your world. Also, a welfare state cannot have an open border policy... we won't have a country anymore. I think we should close the border until Mexico ends the migration... it would take about 3 minutes for Mexico to shut it all down.

 

.
Immigration, in whatever form, had no contributing factor to 9/11. It is for stances lik this that you get looked sideways at.

While both closing the border completely (however impracticle to downright impossible it is) and mandating Mexico to "end the migration", it wouldn't stop it from happening anyway. Heck then you just move the issue to the Mexico <=> Belize/Guatemale border and I doubt it would affect much.

Heck, the majority of your "illegals" seems to be visa-overstays. You should know those, 1 is in the WH (or rather generally not >_>).
.

 

From the polls I have been looking at it is the opposite

It's best to put your faith in a single polling company that has a history of accurate polling, but go ahead and do what you're doing.
It's gonna be so hysterical to watch when Trump is reelected.

 

.
Each polling campany has its biases (wheter intentional or not) and you should always consider more options and opinions. Rasmussen is known to poll couple % to the GOP, just as others are known to poll couple % to the Dems.

Is funny you don't envoke Fox News polls, probably cause they tend to gravitate to the more "left" side that your nation actually is Like the time they found 50% agreeing that Trump's campaign and Russia coordinated, this together with a 43% on impeach/remove, 7% impeach only and 48% do nothing. (link)
.

 

From the author of that memo? sure!

There must be something seriously wrong with you. Devin Nunes didn't just make it up. Samantha Power unmasked hundreds of Americans tied to the Trump campaign. She claims that she didn't do it, that her subordinates used her name. She's lying.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/samantha-power-sought-to-unmask-americans-on-almost-daily-basis-sources-say

 

.
Devin Nunes went very liberal with the truth in his memo, heck he got smacked by the entire intelligence community for it. Also it was never stated that either such requests were accepted (and thus people "unmasked") nor that it were "hundreds of Americans tied to the Trump campaign" (heck I would even wonder if his campaign even had so many people anyway!).

Do you even notice the irony that you want to believe these 2 anonymous sources vs (any) 2 that would cast bad news on the Trump administration? Either claim should be neutrally and painstakingly investigated, this is what is currently lacking in your nation, a truely neutral 3rd side (which should be the Judiciary, bit you guys royally fucked that one up).
.

 

but you just wished a SCOTUS dead. Gratz?

She can retire... or die... I don't care. Those are the ways the Supremes vacate their seats. Reminds me of all those kind words from the left when Antonin Scalia died. I feel exactly the same about RBG. It will be so sweet to replace her.

 

.
And those were vile aswell, but heck you are even dancing on her grave BEFORE it has been dug!
.

 

If the economy is so good now, why is it still so far down?

Higher rates slow down economic growth, but they also slow down inflation. I myself would like to see higher rates with strong growth, because I like to see our dollar worth something... but right now I'll settle for growth. It's been a long time coming.

 

.
You do know that this growth has been going for atleast 122 months now, the longest streak in US history. You do also know that of those 122 months, like 30 months (depending how you want to count, even less if you count budget years) are from Trump's administration at the wheel.

Also keeping the dollar down is good for exports, thought you guys wanted that... (and blamed the UK for doing it to their pound).
.

 

Deficit is skyrocketing in the last 2 years, and you wish to blame Democrats? Okay...

There is no appetite for spending cuts in Washington right now. No one wants another shut down.

 

.
Says the guy voting for the party that keeps trying to destroy anything healthcare related. It isn't like the GOP isn't trying...

Heck ignore spending cuts, the GOP activly ADDED spending! Couple that with tax cuts then yes, you got rising deficits. How strange.

Some voices are even coming out that part of the GDP increases come from gov spending. Something usually found when gov does infrastructure, which funnely enough isn't happening, so if it isn't pro-society like infrastructure or inflation, we can only conclude that "pork" is being added (as you guys so colourfull like to state ).
.

 

And you "saw it myself" how? You got the pdf directly?

They posted the document as soon as they received it... it was a seven layer Photoshop document. I'm not kidding.

Religion is not a line on an Hawaiian birt certificate

Do you know what was on a birth certificate in 1960? I know what is on my birth certificate from 1959... my religion is listed as "Protestant". I have no problem with Obama... anymore. I don't care, I'm just telling you what I know.

 

.
So yeah, why couldn't that have happended? What are those layers then? Obviously they could be split-off and examined no?

Is isn't cause your certificate has a mention of religion that an Hawaiian of 1961 should have it.
.

 

I hate >100F weather

That's why none of my children live in Las Vegas.

 

.
Smart kids, you can only remove that many layers of clothing before it becomes messy
.

If the climate changes, we do what the human race has always done... adapt. As soon as these rich liberals are selling their beachfront property for cents on the dollar, then I will believe that they actually believe it. Until then, they're all lying. I lived in Southern California for 38 years... I was born there, and I have lived through some pretty bad earthquakes. One of these days a 12 point mother of all quakes will occur, and it's gonna split that land from Washington to San Diego. That is the real threat to the west coast, and there won't be any Democrats there left to say it's Republicans fault.

.
Yes adapt, that IS the Paris Accords, that ARE all the climate change debates about. They are about ways to adapt our human race towards a future with more extreme weather and rising temperatures/ocean levels. You are just in the camp that is annoyed that this "adaption" also comes with "change" in behaviour, something you would think to be normal when adapting to a changing enviroment. Your side is basically claiming they can keep adding oxygen to the car while they keep the engine exhaust going into it. Scientists are stating you should both step off the gas and kick out the hose feeding you CO₂ inside the car...

And not to rain on your parade, but an earthquake of 12 on the richter scale is something for science fiction (or a movie, thou I heared its garbage ).

[Lysistrata]

Immigration, in whatever form, had no contributing factor to 9/11. It is for stances lik this that you get looked sideways at.

Do you just wake up and start typing stupid stuff? Were the 9/11 terrorists born in the USA? No. They were not. Did they legally, or illegally, enter the USA? Yes. They did. That's called immigration, in every form. Did they have a contributing factor in the 9/11 terrorist attack? Yes. They did. So, immigration played a fundamental factor in the 9/11 terrorist attack on New York City.

While both closing the border completely (however impracticle to downright impossible it is) and mandating Mexico to "end the migration", it wouldn't stop it from happening anyway.

Closing the border with Mexico is easy. We close the ports of entry. That means nothing gets in legally. No people, no trucks, no trains. Zero commerce. Mexico cannot live a day without commerce with the USA. Mexico would immediately stop the migrations.

Heck then you just move the issue to the Mexico <=> Belize/Guatemale border and I doubt it would affect much.

I have always favored taking over Mexico... and every Mexican I have ever talked to wishes we would do it. Lots of beachfront property, abundant oil reserves, hard working citizens, crushed cartels, and a little skinny border to the south to defend. It's perfect.

Rasmussen is known to poll couple % to the GOP

Rasmussen has been pretty damn accurate since I began following their polling back in 2004. I have no need for other polling except to laugh at how wrong they have been. I have never listened to Fox News polls because they pay outside polling companies to do their work, and they have been all wrong.

You do know that this growth has been going for atleast 122 months now

I know what you're trying to say... Obama spent his entire 8 years in office blaming George W. Bush for his crappy economy, and now they all want to take credit for the economy under Trump. No one is gonna believe that, and if they say they do, they know it's a lie.

Says the guy voting for the party that keeps trying to destroy anything healthcare related.

No not at all. Just doing all I can to destroy involvement of the Federal Government in healthcare.

Yes adapt, that IS the Paris Accords, that ARE all the climate change debates about.

We can adapt just fine on our own. I don't like people telling me what to do, especially European Socialists.

[DarkFox]

I have a strong feeling the USA will cut China off soon. They may end up expelled from the WTO. Also, Southern California may choose not to go along with their stupid Northern brothers and sisters... that would solve the invasion problem as well. It's also the reason why we built the Panama Canal.

 

 

We do not have the production to cut off China. where would we get stuff? Also the amount of goods that go through West Coast ports is more than what 100 Panama Canals can handle. 

 

Because of the United States Military... when you give the finger to the Constitution, you give that up as well.

 

You know people join the military from states other than the East coast right?

 

It's not a fire... when I go outside, I dress for the weather. The sky is not falling Chicken Little.

 

 

Shorts aren't going to save us from 140 degree weather.

 

I never said that. What I said was California is crying about a non-issue when they are sitting on a time bomb. The weather is not their problem... their problem is the crust of the Earth.

 

 

With our current technology we cannot fix fault lines, that is not true with climate change. Right now we are taking minutes off the climate change time bomb because massive corporations want to save a few dollars.

Immigration, in whatever form, had no contributing factor to 9/11

 

[Lysistrata]

We do not have the production to cut off China. where would we get stuff?

omg... Where do we get stuff? It sounds like you're addicted to China. We can make our own stuff, or trade with others for stuff. China has only been in the WTO since 2001. The likelihood that the USA will sever trade with China just multiplied yesterday. They devalued their currency into the basement to make their exports as cheap as possible to mitigate the effects of our tariffs. Who didn't see that coming? In turn, the USA has designated China as a currency manipulator. The free trade world cannot trade with a Communist nation. They steal our intellectual property, put millions of Americans out of work, never honor our copyrights, and force their people to work for slave pay. We don't need China.

You know people join the military from states other than the East coast right?

Yes... most of them come from states that you guys like to call "flyover country". They take an oath to defend the US Constitution. Democrats like to do things using the "Wouldn't it be nice?" policy method. The problem is... they don't think it through.

Shorts aren't going to save us from 140 degree weather.

You're a dreamer, and you're not the only one. My generation did this to you, and I'm very sorry.

With our current technology we cannot fix fault lines, that is not true with climate change. Right now we are taking minutes off the climate change time bomb because massive corporations want to save a few dollars.

Do you know that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez just lost her Chief of Staff? He designed the Green New Deal. He said that it's not about Climate Change at all... it's about government control of the entire US Economy. Wake up and smell the Communism!

https://news.yahoo.com/aoc-chief-staff-admits-green-124408358.html

[DarkFox]

omg... Where do we get stuff? It sounds like you're addicted to China. We can make our own stuff, or trade with others for stuff. China has only been in the WTO since 2001. The likelihood that the USA will sever trade with China just multiplied yesterday. They devalued their currency into the basement to make their exports as cheap as possible to mitigate the effects of our tariffs. Who didn't see that coming? In turn, the USA has designated China as a currency manipulator. The free trade world cannot trade with a Communist nation. They steal our intellectual property, put millions of Americans out of work, never honor our copyrights, and force their people to work for slave pay. We don't need China.

 

 

Actually we do need china. Almost all the American production companies moved out of the USA, the factories are gone, and American made products don't have the quality they used to. The fact is China has us right where they want us and cutting trade with them hurts us much more than it hurts them, it would literally just kill our economy.

 

Yes... most of them come from states that you guys like to call "flyover country". They take an oath to defend the US Constitution. Democrats like to do things using the "Wouldn't it be nice?" policy method. The problem is... they don't think it through.

 

 

In this fantasy scenario you are talking about it would be highly unlikely that California wouldn't inherit a ridiculous amount of military equipment and manpower not to mention the infrastructure. 

 

You're a dreamer, and you're not the only one. My generation did this to you, and I'm very sorry.

 

I am a realist and when almost every single expert and country say something is happening and I can't find any proof against it then I am going to believe it. Hell NASA says its happening.  

[DarkFox]

Do you know that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez just lost her Chief of Staff? He designed the Green New Deal. He said that it's not about Climate Change at all... it's about government control of the entire US Economy. Wake up and smell the Communism!

 

If someone quit your business and said you collect pink rubber duckies should I believe him? 

[Lysistrata]

Actually we do need china.

No we don't.

Almost all the American production companies moved out of the USA, the factories are gone

They can come back if they want... sounds like you're against American manufacturing.

The fact is China has us right where they want us and cutting trade with them hurts us much more than it hurts them

What the hell are you watching? The only people that care about China are all those mega corporations like Apple that get their techno-crack addicting products created for pennies on the backs of slave labor. China poops out tons of cheap garbage to fill the shelves of Walmart. Amazon is making billions hawking their trash. Aren't these the companies you guys are always complaining about? I don't buy anything from China, and if it's not available, no one else will buy it either. China absolutely needs our cash much more than we need their crap.

In this fantasy scenario you are talking about it would be highly unlikely that California wouldn't inherit a ridiculous amount of military equipment and manpower not to mention the infrastructure.

Oh yeah... the snowflake brigade is gonna make some war. That infrastructure will be converted into public housing inside a week.

I am a realist

… sorry... can't stop laughing.

Hell NASA says its happening

They need the funding.

If someone quit your business and said you collect pink rubber duckies should I believe him?

Obviously you didn't read it... I posted a link... and it was Yahoo too. I could have chosen another news source, but I wanted to give you a firm lefty news source... the only people you trust.

[DarkFox]

Dude, nearly everything you say is literally just words. The only counter argument you have given is a testimony from a possibly disgruntle employee who could have easily been paid off, but you are claiming that NASA, Our own government, Exxon mobile, and countless universities and think-tanks were bought off to fake climate change. Yet I am the dreamer.

 

You say that there is a possibility of states breaking off and then stereotype the entire populations as weak and feeble because you don't agree with simple things we should be doing such as national healthcare.

 

You say we don't need China yet here we have farmers going bankrupt because of the trade war and China being relatively unaffected, last I checked soy bean farmers aren't massive corporations.

 

No one wants to spend 30 bucks on an American made chair that is the same quality as a $12 one made from China, and we aren't going to cut them off because Trump wants to get reelected. The GOP is largely all talk except when it comes to giving tax breaks to the wealthy.

[Lysistrata]

Dude, nearly everything you say is literally just words. The only counter argument you have given is a testimony from a possibly disgruntle employee who could have easily been paid off, but you are claiming that NASA, Our own government, Exxon mobile, and countless universities and think-tanks were bought off to fake climate change. Yet I am the dreamer.

Dude... Saikat Chakrabarti is no "disgruntled employee". He's a Wall Street/Silicone Valley mega-millionaire who wrote the Green New Deal. He left AOC as an olive branch to Nancy Pelosi, because he was the one that catapulted AOC into a primary challenge against her good friend Joseph Crowley, and then declared that fiscally conservative and socially liberal Democrats are the "New Southern Democrats". According to Chakrabarti, the Green New Deal isn't about Climate Change at all... "we really think of it as a how do you change the entire economy thing". He is now heading up "New Consensus"... an organization dedicated to the Green New Deal.

You say that there is a possibility of states breaking off and then stereotype the entire populations as weak and feeble because you don't agree with simple things we should be doing such as national healthcare.

First we would need a Constitutional Convention. I don't think that will ever happen, because Democrats never want to fix the problems, they just want to keep them around so they can run their elections on them the next time. What are they running on again? Healthcare, Immigration, Climate Change, and Gun Control... it's the same boring fucking things every time. Even when they had super majorities in both houses of Congress back in 2009, and a lame President to just rubber stamp anything they sent to him, we still have the same boring issues to fight over.

 

If we made it to a Constitutional Convention, Democrats would not get a thing out of it. They would then do the most snow-flakey thing possible, and it's so obvious and predictable... they can't win, so they'll throw a tantrum, and leave. That's how it would happen.

 

Democrats run on emotions, and they never think about the consequences of what they do... they just blame Republicans.

You say we don't need China yet here we have farmers going bankrupt because of the trade war and China being relatively unaffected, last I checked soy bean farmers aren't massive corporations.

They are farmers... they grow what they can sell... if they can't sell what they grow... grow something else. That's Capitalism.

No one wants to spend 30 bucks on an American made chair that is the same quality as a $12 one made from China, and we aren't going to cut them off because Trump wants to get reelected.

We buy what is for sale. We go shopping, we pick what we want, we decide what we will pay for it... and that's it. No one buys anything because it's from China, but there are many that won't buy it because it's from China. If there are no products made in China available to purchase, then no one will even know about it. Your argument becomes meaningless.

The GOP is largely all talk except when it comes to giving tax breaks to the wealthy.

I'm not wealthy, and I got a tax cut. Something Democrats don't understand... it's not their money to decide how much of our money we get to keep... and the GOP does a lot to prevent big government from encroaching, and interfering, in our lives.

[onbekende]

 

Immigration, in whatever form, had no contributing factor to 9/11. It is for stances lik this that you get looked sideways at.

Do you just wake up and start typing stupid stuff? Were the 9/11 terrorists born in the USA? No. They were not. Did they legally, or illegally, enter the USA? Yes. They did. That's called immigration, in every form. Did they have a contributing factor in the 9/11 terrorist attack? Yes. They did. So, immigration played a fundamental factor in the 9/11 terrorist attack on New York City.

 

.
And I am merely stating that stopping any type of "illegal" immigraton wouldn't have stopped 9/11 one bit. They all (nearly all, 1 got denied and had to be replaced) came over completely legal and more then likely would also be permitted entry in any immigration scenario expect a full lock-down of the USA.

They didn't immigrate to immigrate, they came to do harm to the USA. At best blame your intelligence agency's then, cause it sure isn't your border security guy at the airports duty to catch these kind of plots.
.

 

While both closing the border completely (however impracticle to downright impossible it is) and mandating Mexico to "end the migration", it wouldn't stop it from happening anyway.

Closing the border with Mexico is easy. We close the ports of entry. That means nothing gets in legally. No people, no trucks, no trains. Zero commerce. Mexico cannot live a day without commerce with the USA. Mexico would immediately stop the migrations.

 

.
So you stop any "legal" entry. Gratz?

Both sides need eachother, while Mexico will lose income (aka jobs and export) the US will lose cheap labor and goods. There is a reason why you guys have so many border corssings and they are still heavily congested.
.

 

Heck then you just move the issue to the Mexico <=> Belize/Guatemale border and I doubt it would affect much.

I have always favored taking over Mexico... and every Mexican I have ever talked to wishes we would do it. Lots of beachfront property, abundant oil reserves, hard working citizens, crushed cartels, and a little skinny border to the south to defend. It's perfect.

 

.
Funny, just know that I doubt any Republican will be overjoyed by the prospect of all those latino voters (regardless of party affiliation).

Heck, most of the "goals" can be accomplished just by being a nice neighbour and *gasp* international aid. Why you need to go all imperialistic on them is something only history can educate you on.
.

 

Rasmussen is known to poll couple % to the GOP

Rasmussen has been pretty damn accurate since I began following their polling back in 2004. I have no need for other polling except to laugh at how wrong they have been. I have never listened to Fox News polls because they pay outside polling companies to do their work, and they have been all wrong.

 

.
Rasmussed had Clinton on +2% on election night, all were in the +1 to +4% range, which is spot-on for statistics. I can't seem to find them assigning electoral college seats to those numbers, but seeing as they are only patting themselfes on the back for being very close to the eventual +2,1% win for Clinton, I can't really assume them being better then the rest.
.

 

You do know that this growth has been going for atleast 122 months now

I know what you're trying to say... Obama spent his entire 8 years in office blaming George W. Bush for his crappy economy, and now they all want to take credit for the economy under Trump. No one is gonna believe that, and if they say they do, they know it's a lie.

 

.
And yet Trump wants to claim none of the economic drive that happended during Obama's time actually happended. Currently at best most economists are agreeing that Trump hasn't yet derailed the US economy, but he sure aint helping or boosting it.
.

 

Says the guy voting for the party that keeps trying to destroy anything healthcare related.

No not at all. Just doing all I can to destroy involvement of the Federal Government in healthcare.

 

.
No more Medicaid/Medicare then I guess? Also goodbye the VE? (thou that was a GOP plan last I heared).
.

 

Yes adapt, that IS the Paris Accords, that ARE all the climate change debates about.

We can adapt just fine on our own. I don't like people telling me what to do, especially European Socialists.

 

.
But thats the thing, you guys aren't adopting at all. Heck you guys aren't even really reacting post-crisis. Then again you could partially blame beaurocracy for that.

And I guess its good I aint a communist anymore, I guess.
.

 

We do not have the production to cut off China. where would we get stuff?

omg... Where do we get stuff? It sounds like you're addicted to China. We can make our own stuff, or trade with others for stuff. China has only been in the WTO since 2001. The likelihood that the USA will sever trade with China just multiplied yesterday. They devalued their currency into the basement to make their exports as cheap as possible to mitigate the effects of our tariffs. Who didn't see that coming? In turn, the USA has designated China as a currency manipulator. The free trade world cannot trade with a Communist nation. They steal our intellectual property, put millions of Americans out of work, never honor our copyrights, and force their people to work for slave pay. We don't need China.

 

.
Lots to unpack here, but lets start.
- You do make alot of your own stuff, just know that those factories also run on Chinese imports like steel.
- WTO membership didn't just make China magically open its borders and start trading with the USA, they already did before.
- And that likelyhood just dropped cause Trump doesn't want to impose tariff's on Christmas shoppers...
- The Yuan was propped UP by China the past years, so basically the opposite! They "released" that pressure and thus the yuan fell to a more capitalistic true mean.
- Yuan going down means the chinese will earn LESS on exports, sure the product becomes cheaper for export but they receive less money for it AND their imports become more expensive. The only "hurt" it did on the tariffs is that the amount to be received diminshed (hello more deficit!).
- Yes you will need it in your capitalistic system, cause just patriotism doesn't mean squatch when people can buy the same stuff at half the price when its imported.
.

 

Almost all the American production companies moved out of the USA, the factories are gone

They can come back if they want... sounds like you're against American manufacturing.

 

.
Sure they can come back, at a cost.
.

 

The fact is China has us right where they want us and cutting trade with them hurts us much more than it hurts them

What the hell are you watching? The only people that care about China are all those mega corporations like Apple that get their techno-crack addicting products created for pennies on the backs of slave labor. China poops out tons of cheap garbage to fill the shelves of Walmart. Amazon is making billions hawking their trash. Aren't these the companies you guys are always complaining about? I don't buy anything from China, and if it's not available, no one else will buy it either. China absolutely needs our cash much more than we need their crap.

 

.
I call shenanigans, you do buy from China. If you don't want to see it is up to you.

And first you mark them up as a slave holding communist state with little to no morals during there business deals and now you think they need US $$? You think China is only running a trade surplus with the USA? Who has been teaching you economics?
.

Democrats run on emotions, and they never think about the consequences of what they do... they just blame Republicans.

.
I wil re-iterate: "It is for stances like this that you get looked sideways at."

Both your sides are drama queens!
.

 

You say we don't need China yet here we have farmers going bankrupt because of the trade war and China being relatively unaffected, last I checked soy bean farmers aren't massive corporations.

They are farmers... they grow what they can sell... if they can't sell what they grow... grow something else. That's Capitalism.

 

.
Then why is the USA subsidizing alot of farmers over missed exports? Smells like socialism...
.

 

No one wants to spend 30 bucks on an American made chair that is the same quality as a $12 one made from China, and we aren't going to cut them off because Trump wants to get reelected.

We buy what is for sale. We go shopping, we pick what we want, we decide what we will pay for it... and that's it. No one buys anything because it's from China, but there are many that won't buy it because it's from China. If there are no products made in China available to purchase, then no one will even know about it. Your argument becomes meaningless.

 

.
Will die by Capitalism, wants to be a protectionist.

Choose 1 please.
.

 

The GOP is largely all talk except when it comes to giving tax breaks to the wealthy.

I'm not wealthy, and I got a tax cut. Something Democrats don't understand... it's not their money to decide how much of our money we get to keep... and the GOP does a lot to prevent big government from encroaching, and interfering, in our lives.

 

.
Excellent, what was your tax cut, in numbers if possible, in percentage if desired. Please also state howmuch was absorbed by increase in the cost of living and inflation.

Except on morals, for those the GOP wouldn't mind a Saudi styled morals police I'd guess.

[Lysistrata]

Funny, just know that I doubt any Republican will be overjoyed by the prospect of all those latino voters (regardless of party affiliation).

You're wrong here… Mexicans are not Socialists, and most are Catholic.

And yet Trump wants to claim none of the economic drive that happended during Obama's time actually happended.

There was none... Obama had a virtual flatline economy. The Real Estate market crashed... there was no where to go but up, and his policies stagnated and slowed growth to a crawl. The economy took a strong sharp turn up after election night 2016, because everyone knew who was taking office. Barack Obama did absolutely nothing for the US economy... if fact... he hurt us all.

No more Medicaid/Medicare then I guess? Also goodbye the VE? (thou that was a GOP plan last I heared).

Larger dreams have come to pass... but not this one. The private sector can do anything better. Also it's the VA... not the "VE".

Heck you guys aren't even really reacting post-crisis.

What crisis?

All that about China

We don't need China. I would be overjoyed if we severed completely. That reminds me... Brexit is coming!

Then why is the USA subsidizing alot of farmers over missed exports? Smells like socialism...

No... smells like bribery.

[onbekende]

 

Funny, just know that I doubt any Republican will be overjoyed by the prospect of all those latino voters (regardless of party affiliation).

You're wrong here… Mexicans are not Socialists, and most are Catholic.

 

.
They run a pretty socialist nation compared to US standards, and if that aint enough they sure will be called communists by Republicans when they suddenly vote Democratic...

Alot of Democrats are Catholic aswell, doesn't stop you from showing disdain for them. Hardly stops prominent Republicans to be outright vicious to them. Heck Hillary is more of a catholic then Trump, and we know who you think is the holy apparition...
.

 

And yet Trump wants to claim none of the economic drive that happended during Obama's time actually happended.

There was none... Obama had a virtual flatline economy. The Real Estate market crashed... there was no where to go but up, and his policies stagnated and slowed growth to a crawl. The economy took a strong sharp turn up after election night 2016, because everyone knew who was taking office. Barack Obama did absolutely nothing for the US economy... if fact... he hurt us all.

 

.
Unsure which graphs, if at all, you got before you, but I suggest rereading the axis. Which indicator, over the whole 8-years of Obama indicate if at all what you describe?

With that, please also find indicators that show Trump's current 2/3-year run and how they show difference between his and Obama's policies.

Yes Obama got and found himself in a rock-bottom economy, only way up. And while at the start he did all those evil socialist things like bank and automotive bail-outs and all them nationalisations, I doubt it helped that in the later years the GOP congress touting anything but fiscal responsibility" helped his (and his advisors) notions to aid the US.
.

 

No more Medicaid/Medicare then I guess? Also goodbye the VE? (thou that was a GOP plan last I heared).

Larger dreams have come to pass... but not this one. The private sector can do anything better. Also it's the VA... not the "VE".

 

.
Private sector does indeed to everything better, also included in that are crashing and leaving people in the dirt. Just mention "pre-excisting condition" and "advanced age" and see how much the private sector likes you. Why do you fellows even have Medicaid/Medicare if the private sector is the utopia you so deem it to be?

VA it is, blame CN
.

 

Heck you guys aren't even really reacting post-crisis.

What crisis?

 

.
While you wouldn't call it a crisis at all, the indicators are moving and nothing will stop them now. You are the fellow in the Grand Canyon not only dismissing the tourguides telling you to evacuate to higher grounds cause the Hoover dam breached but you actually enjoy the increased current in the Colorado river which is the premonition of the tsunami thats going to hit you.

Or are you the guy enjoying the sudden large beach as the ocean retreats 500 feet?
.

 

All that about China

We don't need China. I would be overjoyed if we severed completely. That reminds me... Brexit is coming!

 

.
No you don't NEED it, just like you don't NEED that comfy matrass you sleep on. Sure doesn't stop you from using it due to ease of use. Perhaps you should incarcerate another million americans, I heared that part of semi-forced labour force does wonders for some economic sectors.

Aaaah yes, Brexit, in whatever form it shall be. Still enjoy people talking about it from an economic viewpoint and saying those are the things stopping a deal. Nevermind that all that has already been agreed and formulated, it is just Northern Ireland and the still present Catholics vs Protestants thats the real issue.
.

 

Then why is the USA subsidizing alot of farmers over missed exports? Smells like socialism...

No... smells like bribery.

 

.
Okay, so the GOP is bribing farmers in GOP states. Wonder why...

[Lysistrata]

we know who you think is the holy apparition.

I don't know what you're talking about

the indicators are moving and nothing will stop them

Indicators? You mean mouths are moving... the same tired assholes trying to scare people into surrendering their freedom.

You are the fellow in the Grand Canyon not only dismissing the tourguides telling you to evacuate to higher grounds cause the Hoover dam breached but you actually enjoy the increased current in the Colorado river which is the premonition of the tsunami thats going to hit you.

You're out of your mind. Have you forgotten that I live 30 minutes from Hoover Dam? We recently took the family to the Grand Canyon. We took a Wine Train up there. It's still amazingly gorgeous, it was much cooler, and the "Tour Guides" said absolutely nothing about the current of the Colorado River, or any coming "tsunami". Same as it ever was.

Aaaah yes, Brexit, in whatever form it shall be. Still enjoy people talking about it from an economic viewpoint and saying those are the things stopping a deal.

Boris is in charge now... it's coming on Halloween, of all days. With the EU out of the way, the UK will have the great USA, and an extremely generous President Trump, totally on their side. They don't need no stinking deal.

Okay, so the GOP is bribing farmers in GOP states. Wonder why...

To help them now, secure their support, and to buy their votes later... duh. Obama gave a trillion dollars of taxpayer cash to his supporters after he was elected in 2009, with the help of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi of course. It's nothing new.

[Lysistrata]

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/23/753699013/justice-ruth-bader-ginsburg-underwent-another-round-of-cancer-treatment-this-sum

tick... tock... tick... tock... tick... tock...

[onbekende]

2 weeks!
 

 

we know who you think is the holy apparition.

I don't know what you're talking about

 

.
You like to bring up Catholicism, I am just wondering if you (and the GOP at large) actually understand what it means.
.

 

the indicators are moving and nothing will stop them

Indicators? You mean mouths are moving... the same tired assholes trying to scare people into surrendering their freedom.

 

.
Belgium just had its 3rd heatwave (minimal 5 days of +25°C of which 3 days of +30°C), its 3rd! We used to average at one every decade, we now average one each year...

And what "freedom" would be surrendered? Or perhaps the better question has to be: in what way do you wish to stay being a jackass to our environment?

Then again, on this point you are true to your beliefs, how maddening Libertarianism may be, you stay on point. The point being taxes in this case.
.

 

You are the fellow in the Grand Canyon not only dismissing the tourguides telling you to evacuate to higher grounds cause the Hoover dam breached but you actually enjoy the increased current in the Colorado river which is the premonition of the tsunami thats going to hit you.

You're out of your mind. Have you forgotten that I live 30 minutes from Hoover Dam? We recently took the family to the Grand Canyon. We took a Wine Train up there. It's still amazingly gorgeous, it was much cooler, and the "Tour Guides" said absolutely nothing about the current of the Colorado River, or any coming "tsunami". Same as it ever was.

 

.
Analogies, they be stories to both explain a concept ungrasped by its factual words and used to lighten the explaination away from horrifics.
.

 

Aaaah yes, Brexit, in whatever form it shall be. Still enjoy people talking about it from an economic viewpoint and saying those are the things stopping a deal.

Boris is in charge now... it's coming on Halloween, of all days. With the EU out of the way, the UK will have the great USA, and an extremely generous President Trump, totally on their side. They don't need no stinking deal.

 

.
Just going for the economical side (which as I said, is mostly cleared and done) and ignoring the USA-UK(-EU) side of this, the deal is purely meant as an "upgrade" to a basic WTO trade position between the EU and the UK after the seperation. Heck they will need to rework a trade deal with the USA, which while likely will be blueprinted from the EU-USA deals, they will be doing this while in a smaller/weaker position.

But wait, Trump will be generous? I thought it was "MAGA" and "KAG" that would be the guidelines of foreign (trade) policy. You gonna give them "free" stuff?
.

 

Okay, so the GOP is bribing farmers in GOP states. Wonder why...

To help them now, secure their support, and to buy their votes later... duh. Obama gave a trillion dollars of taxpayer cash to his supporters after he was elected in 2009, with the help of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi of course. It's nothing new.

 

.
Most glaring thing here is, that Trump himself caused the downturn on farmers to actually warrent such a bail-out/buy-out/bribery. Not even talking about both probably disproportionally enriching the already wealthy 1%.
.

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/23/753699013/justice-ruth-bader-ginsburg-underwent-another-round-of-cancer-treatment-this-sum
tick... tock... tick... tock... tick... tock...

How christian...


And I leave you with this, with this.

[Lysistrata]

You like to bring up Catholicism

No I don't. I'm not a religious man. The only time I will bring up religion is when I'm defending the Constitution, or directing attention to how religion will effect the political views of others. Pretty much means I don't care about how you feel about it either.

2 weeks!

2 weeks until what? My birthday? The next idiot debate? School starts for you again? I'm at a loss here.

Belgium just had its 3rd heatwave

Congratulations... it's 108F here right now. Just think... if Trump stayed in the Paris Climate Accord, I gave up my car, shut down my air conditioning and heating, quit airlines, spent $20,000 dollars on solar panels, allowed the government to tax the shit out of every corporation making what they deem as "too much money", trashed my barbeque, surrendered my firearms, and stopped using plastic... It would be 108F here right now. The only difference would be my misery level. No thanks... I'm fine the way it is.

Most glaring thing here is, that Trump himself caused the downturn on farmers to actually warrent such a bail-out/buy-out/bribery.

So you believe Trump should have done nothing... just like every other President? He had two choices... tariffs, or shutting down trade with China. I would have preferred he shut down the trade... he chose tariffs. I continue to support his efforts.

How christian...

Told you I'm not a Christian... neither are all those wonderful people that celebrated the death of David Koch. I have a special bottle of champagne we're gonna pop when the Notorious RBG leaves the bench. I don't care which way she leaves.

[onbekende]

 

2 weeks!

2 weeks until what? My birthday? The next idiot debate? School starts for you again? I'm at a loss here.

 

.
2 weeks since I replied, hence I made that line above and away from any reply to you. As said before I try to find enough time to make a meaningfull and complete reply and as such I rarely open this thread in a timely manner. Today being the exception I guess
.

 

You like to bring up Catholicism

No I don't. I'm not a religious man. The only time I will bring up religion is when I'm defending the Constitution, or directing attention to how religion will effect the political views of others. Pretty much means I don't care about how you feel about it either.

 

.
Well it is the corner stone of your nation, whater you like it or not. You know, the whole "God bless america" thing.

That said, 1 party is indeed zealous in its outcry to being religious, christian of the protestant denomination that is, but is royally screwing that same religion with its actions. I was merely noting the hypocracy of said party in both invoking its religious protectionism (singular) zeal while living the life said religion would find abhorrent. The same zeal they like to cast upon their current "savior" residing in the White House (if he is there and not at his properties/golf resorts ...)
.

 

Belgium just had its 3rd heatwave

Congratulations... it's 108F here right now. Just think... if Trump stayed in the Paris Climate Accord, I gave up my car, shut down my air conditioning and heating, quit airlines, spent $20,000 dollars on solar panels, allowed the government to tax the shit out of every corporation making what they deem as "too much money", trashed my barbeque, surrendered my firearms, and stopped using plastic... It would be 108F here right now. The only difference would be my misery level. No thanks... I'm fine the way it is.

 

.
Lets unpack this all shall we.

No you won't lose your car, you will however find the newer models to be more efficient (and also less on the $$ for gas/petrol!) but you might see a restriction on your car entering build-up urban spaces to keep pollution to a minimum (hello neighbourhood chemical plant!).
No we won't take your airco, who gave you that shit thought?
No we won't take your heating, who gave you that shit thought?
No we won't ground aircraft, you will however find that the aircraft manufacturers will build more efficient and less polluting aircrafts while also reducing noise!
No we won't make you buy solar panels, thou perhaps do so cause they can seriously slash your electric bill over time, it is called an investment. Unsure how it is in the USA but in Belgium a domestic solar panel install buys itself back in like 7y, everything after that is pure profit. Perhaps even invest in some US made Tesla batteries, you could go ful Libertarian then and cut you off from the evil state electric grid!
No they won't tax just to tax, you will however find that all pollution will be taxes now, not just the truely nasty "kill you today" kind.
No we won't take your BBQ, who gave you that shit thought?
No we won't take your guns, who gave you that shit thought? Heck it isn't even remotely relevant to the enviroment, unless you wanna complain about the lead content...
No we won't take your plastic, you will find it being replaced by more enviromental healthy alternatives coupled with better recycling (hey no wastefills!) so the production of various plastic goods can be eve cheaper! Also recycling is mostly a native industry, so MAGA!
Yes tomorrow will be the same as predicted today, shocking how weather is different from climate.


Stop stammering about the hoax when you have seen a snowball in winter will ya.
.

 

Most glaring thing here is, that Trump himself caused the downturn on farmers to actually warrent such a bail-out/buy-out/bribery.

So you believe Trump should have done nothing... just like every other President? He had two choices... tariffs, or shutting down trade with China. I would have preferred he shut down the trade... he chose tariffs. I continue to support his efforts.

 

.
His reason for taking action in the first place was flawed, the whole "trade deficit" spiel. No nation can have (roughly) equal trade relations with all other nations, you will have deficits with some and surplusses with others. Heck the whole thing is basic Capitalism 101, find the cheapest method of generating capital, aka buy/make cheap, sell/offer expensive!

And yes, he could have taken other actions besides tariffs or shutting down trade (note please that tariffs are basically a restriction anyway). Take for instance quota, put in place a certain maximum of how much a good may be imported from China per year. This can for instance be scaled in time to firstly be 100% of current so not to interrupt present trade while diminishing it over time so your home market can adjust. Another idea is putting non-product related conditions on imports, like worker compensations, factory conditions, ...

Could have even waited a decade, China is transitioning to a consumer orientated economy and would have really upped its imports of US made high-end goods (even with all them fakes and intellectual stealing, yeah yeah, that is bad). And it isn't like manufacturing is coming back to the US, it is redeployed to the next cheap labout place: South-East Asia and India.
.

 

How christian...

Told you I'm not a Christian... neither are all those wonderful people that celebrated the death of David Koch. I have a special bottle of champagne we're gonna pop when the Notorious RBG leaves the bench. I don't care which way she leaves.

 

.
Fine, how morally bankrupt of you. Better?