792 replies to this topic

[onbekende]

And we can add paranoia to the list.

 

Seriously, what could they possibly get from you voluntary giving them a sample which they couldn't get when they swapped your bathroom when you weren't home like the obvious mastermind evil overlords you so readily accuse them off?

 

That said, I haven't been tested either, funny how that happens that one should only chose it when you have an actual risk of infection

[Chaplain of death]

 

The fact that you typed this sentence is a testament to your complete lack of understanding international relations. It's like claiming Iran moved its nuclear program to the UK to circumvent sanctions - makes zero sense.

The fact that you typed this sentence is a testament that you know nothing about what you're talking about.

 

Four months before the Obama administration suspended federal funding for gain-of-function research on US soil, the process by which virologists manipulate viruses to be more transmissible to humans, a subagency of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) - headed by Dr. Anthony Fauci - effectively shifted this research to the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) via a grant to nonprofit group EcoHealth Alliance, headed by Peter Daszak.

 

The first $666,442 installment of EcoHealth's $3.7 million NIH grant was paid in June 2014, with similar annual payments through May 2019 under the "Understanding The Risk Of Bat Coronavirus Emergence" project...

 

This is what happened, and now they are all trying to hide it, and cover their asses. So, the same people that created the virus are making trillions on delivering the cure. How convenient is that?

 

I had no idea the UK was helping Iran with their nukes... well ya learn something new every day.

 

 

That's a misrepresentation of what Gain of Function is. Gain of function research is about researching the way in which viruses adapt to environmental pressures to help deal with the spread of disease and be able to predict and combat mutations. The reason that research was shut down in the US in 2014 was because a lab had managed to mutate a version of the Influenza A/H5N1 virus to be airborne among the ferrets they were researching. The concern of their work being used for malicious purposes caused the NIH and the Obama administration to shut down research into influenza, SARS, or MERS. This moratorium was rescinded in 2017 with the NIH tightening up safety restrictions for the labs that could undertake the research to avoid a potential outbreak. 

[Lysistrata]

Gain of Function is this... so which fake news channel are you watching?

“Gain-of-function” is the euphemism for biological research aimed at increasing the virulence and lethality of pathogens and viruses. GoF research is government funded; its focus is on enhancing the pathogens’ ability to infect different species and to increase their deadly impact as airborne pathogens and viruses.

[Chaplain of death]

But if you are going to just assume I got it from "fake news" where are you getting your info from and how are you verifying its veracity? 

[Chaplain of death]

 

 I've asked this before, but do you have any proof by a trusted source for any of these theories?

 

I cant find any proof that Fauci had any hand in COVID beyond the response which the Trump admin selected him for. Let alone the creation of a vaccine.

 

I cant find any significant amounts of people dying from the vaccine, and certainly not to a level even close to getting covid which as you said is no worse than the flu.

 

So far the only people I can see saying what you are claiming are the ones who told us that Obama was going to take away our guns and enforce Sharia law.  

My apologies. I momentarily forgot that I am an American Republican, a staunch supporter of the U.S. Constitution with Conservative leanings, and I have a mean Libertarian streak. I have a bad habit of blurting out what I think. There are many of us, and in return for our criminal behavior, we are often censored, cancelled, beaten, vandalized, burned, looted, and murdered... and you call us fascist?

 

Now that's out of the way... my "trusted sources" are not your "trusted sources"... and vice-versa. The difference is I have given your "trusted sources" a chance, and they don't even pass the smell test. So let's save a lot of time and just not even go there.

 

You can't find any proof? Pull your fingers out of your ears. Dr. Anthony Fauci heads an organization called the National Institutes of Health... we will call that the NIH. The NIH has received millions of taxpayer dollars in grants. The NIH was financing Gain of Function research of Coronavirus in the USA. In 2014, President Obama banned Gain of Function research in the USA. Did Fauci then stop his now illegal research? Of course not... he moved it to the Wuhan Lab of Virology in China.

 

You can't find any amount of people dying from the vaccines because no one is keeping a scoreboard for that.

The scoreboard for so called "Covid Deaths" has been exaggerated by as much as 1600%... for political purposes.

 

Democrats have been trying to overturn the Second Amendment of the US Constitution for... ever?

Barack Hussein Obama was raised in the Muslim faith... that's a fact... the same as I was raised Christian. It doesn't mean it stuck.

 

 

 

If Gain of function is literally the weaponization of disease as you say, and under the leadership of your illustrious Donald Trump, they lifted the moratorium on its research on US soil..... I don't understand what kind of mental gymnastics you are doing to make this the fault of the left.

 

Also libertarian's are being "censored, cancelled, beaten, vandalized, burned, looted, and murdered"? What fucking upside down imaginary world are you living in? People disagreeing with you or telling you that you are wrong about something because the only source you have are the loonies on Fox news who are making money convincing the gullible morons on the right of the conspiracy theories doesn't make you oppressed. Take that particular sob story and pound sand. 

 

Also just going to point out that there is exactly 0 evidence that Obama has ever been Muslim, but even if he were, so fucking what? Religion should have nothing to do with politics. I'm so done with American politics needing people to pass the Christian test to hold any significant office.

[Lysistrata]

If Gain of function is literally the weaponization of disease as you say, and under the leadership of your illustrious Donald Trump, they lifted the moratorium on its research on US soil..... I don't understand what kind of mental gymnastics you are doing to make this the fault of the left.

They moved it to Wuhan in 2014. They never moved it back. This virus came from there.

 

I find it really hard to understand that you guys can't believe what is right in front of you... same with the rigged election... it's right in front of you... and you still refuse to concede the slightest possibility that questions should be asked. But at the same time you will continue believing that the weather will kill us all every 10 years, like clockwork, for the last 50 years, and it never happens.

But if you are going to just assume I got it from "fake news" where are you getting your info from and how are you verifying its veracity?

It's the Dictionary...

Also just going to point out that there is exactly 0 evidence that Obama has ever been Muslim

This is from PolitiFact ... I don't think it adds up to "exactly 0 evidence"... but so fucking what?

The great preponderance of substantiated evidence indicates Obama attended a public school in Indonesia that taught a small amount of mainstream Islam from 1967-1971. The news reports say that Obama's registration form indicates his religion was Muslim, but there are errors on the forms and it seems reasonable to assume that he was registered as Muslim simply because his stepfather was Muslim.

[Chaplain of death]

 

If Gain of function is literally the weaponization of disease as you say, and under the leadership of your illustrious Donald Trump, they lifted the moratorium on its research on US soil..... I don't understand what kind of mental gymnastics you are doing to make this the fault of the left.

They moved it to Wuhan in 2014. They never moved it back. This virus came from there.

 

I find it really hard to understand that you guys can't believe what is right in front of you... same with the rigged election... it's right in front of you... and you still refuse to concede the slightest possibility that questions should be asked. But at the same time you will continue believing that the weather will kill us all every 10 years, like clockwork, for the last 50 years, and it never happens.

 

 

But if you are going to just assume I got it from "fake news" where are you getting your info from and how are you verifying its veracity?

It's the Dictionary...

 

 

Also just going to point out that there is exactly 0 evidence that Obama has ever been Muslim

This is from PolitiFact ... I don't think it adds up to "exactly 0 evidence"... but so fucking what?

The great preponderance of substantiated evidence indicates Obama attended a public school in Indonesia that taught a small amount of mainstream Islam from 1967-1971. The news reports say that Obama's registration form indicates his religion was Muslim, but there are errors on the forms and it seems reasonable to assume that he was registered as Muslim simply because his stepfather was Muslim.

 

 

lol the dictionary. You funny man. 

 

Gain-of-function (GOF) studies, or research that improves the ability of a pathogen to cause disease, help define the fundamental nature of human-pathogen interactions, thereby enabling assessment of the pandemic potential of emerging infectious agents, informing public health and preparedness efforts, and furthering medical countermeasure development.

 

At least go with the obvious argument of, "well that's just what they tell the public and the deep state is using it to kill off people who oppose them." That at least is an interesting argument though it is still a conspiracy theory with no evidence. 

 

How is the "rigged election" in front of our faces? The alt right company they hired to check into the Arizona election where they are convinced fraud happened has been unable to find anything and is milking their government contract and the sympathy donations of gullible people who believe in the steal. They've been saying they are almost done for months. True capitalists I guess, making money where there's money to be made, regardless of the morals.

 

https://www.nih.gov/about-nih/who-we-are/nih-director/statements/nih-lifts-funding-pause-gain-function-research

2017 lifting of the moratorium on NIH funding for GoF research.

 

Obama attended a school at which a "small amount" of Islam was taught therefore he was a muslim?

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/jul/19/antonio-sabato-jr/obama-not-absolutely-muslim-rnc-speaker-claims/

Politifact says nothing about him bein registered as a Muslim, or about his school having taught Islam. You sure that was your source or would you like to try again?

[Lysistrata]

Politifact says nothing about him bein registered as a Muslim, or about his school having taught Islam. You sure that was your source or would you like to try again?

No...  PolitiFact | Obama attended an Indonesian public school

I stand by my original comments... he was raised Muslim, as I was raised Christian. It does not mean it stuck... and I still don't care.

How is the "rigged election" in front of our faces?

This is actually covered in a different thread... The Elections 2020 Thread - Page 14 - Real Life - Current Events and World News - IRON Forums Website (ironcentral.org)

lol the dictionary. You funny man.

Yes... gain of function definition...

gain of function definition - Bing

2017 lifting of the moratorium on NIH funding for GoF research.

Lifting the moratorium did not move the research from Wuhan.

[Chaplain of death]

 

Politifact says nothing about him bein registered as a Muslim, or about his school having taught Islam. You sure that was your source or would you like to try again?

No...  PolitiFact | Obama attended an Indonesian public school

I stand by my original comments... he was raised Muslim, as I was raised Christian. It does not mean it stuck... and I still don't care.

How is the "rigged election" in front of our faces?

This is actually covered in a different thread... The Elections 2020 Thread - Page 14 - Real Life - Current Events and World News - IRON Forums Website (ironcentral.org)

lol the dictionary. You funny man.

Yes... gain of function definition...

gain of function definition - Bing

 

 

2017 lifting of the moratorium on NIH funding for GoF research.

Lifting the moratorium did not move the research from Wuhan.

 

 

If you don't care why are you bringing it up?

 

If it's covered in a different thread, why did you bring it up here?

 

Also that bing link isn't to a dictionary, its to a website for the ALLIANCE FOR HUMAN RESEARCH PROTECTION. Also in their article they talk about being concerned about Gain of function research because of the potential a failure of containment or for the research to be used to weaponize viruses rather than being used for the reasons stated by the NIH and others. Those are valid concerns, but that doesn't make GoF research inherently those things anymore than being a republican makes one a facist. One could be both but being one doesn't make the other true automatically. 

 

It isn't like only one lab is doing this research. If it is so evil, why did it get reauthorized during the Trump administration? 

[Lysistrata]

If you don't care why are you bringing it up?

I didn't... the resident Belgian did.

If it's covered in a different thread, why did you bring it up here?

An example of things that are right in front of you that you refuse to believe.

Also that bing link isn't to a dictionary, its to a website for the ALLIANCE FOR HUMAN RESEARCH PROTECTION.

It's the definition of Gain of Function. That's what it is. No one gets to change that.

It isn't like only one lab is doing this research. If it is so evil, why did it get reauthorized during the Trump administration?

It's the only lab that released the virus. Are you trying to say it's Trump's fault now? Obviously because the Russians ordered him to, right? Better stick with blaming Climate Change, you may get some traction with it in the colleges. They're not too bright these days.

[Chaplain of death]

 

If you don't care why are you bringing it up?

I didn't... the resident Belgian did.

 

If it's covered in a different thread, why did you bring it up here?

An example of things that are right in front of you that you refuse to believe.

 

 

Also that bing link isn't to a dictionary, its to a website for the ALLIANCE FOR HUMAN RESEARCH PROTECTION.

It's the definition of Gain of Function. That's what it is. No one gets to change that.

 

 

It isn't like only one lab is doing this research. If it is so evil, why did it get reauthorized during the Trump administration?

It's the only lab that released the virus. Are you trying to say it's Trump's fault now? Obviously because the Russians ordered him to, right? Better stick with blaming Climate Change, you may get some traction with it in the colleges. They're not too bright these days.

 

 

It isn't the definition of gain of function, you are literally trying to change the definition of what it is based on concerns that groups have of potential misuse of the research. You are referencing one such group and then calling it "a dictionary". 

 

I'm not trying to blame Trump because I don't think its his fault. I knew nothing of gain of function research before this conversation but now having researched I believe that the research is a worthy endeavor so long as it is done with the proper amount of safety steps are taken. I completely understand your belief that it is not and that it could be misused or mishandled leading to an outbreak and that is more than just a valid concern its a very real possibility. The only reason I bring up the Trump administration lifting the moratorium is that you are so fixated on this being evil research at its core, and that its entirely the fault of the left. All I'm trying to do by bringing that up is to lift some small amount of the wool you are attempting to pull over your own eyes about how the left is the evil boogyman out to kill libertarians with biological weapons that they are somehow designing to not target leftists. 

 

You talk about not seeing things that are right in front of our faces but you are dead set on trying to use a completely false definition of a term. It is right in front of your face that that is not the definition but you instead give me a bing link to an advocate groups site and call it a dictionary. Are you just unwilling to admit a mistake here? Like I said above, your concern and position is valid, I would even go so far as to say its a valid concern to think that the US government could be using this research to weaponize these diseases. The best I can figure is you are choosing to use the same tried and true method of the fox news and the alt right to redefine the things you don't like as being "evil" and categorizing extra "evils" under the term than what the term actually refers to in order to shift the argument.

[Lysistrata]

First of all, Gain of Function research on a virus is intended to force a virus to mutate into a more dangerous, and contagious, virus in order to learn how to fight them, and to create vaccines to counter them. It doesn't take a scientist to figure out how bad this can be.

 

Dr. Anthony Fauci is a scientist. He believes deep in his heart that he's a good man. He has high regard, and ultimate trust, in other scientists. He believes they all have the same motivations. They do not. Dr. Anthony Fauci trusts the scientists in China, because they are scientists. He thought they were the same good scientists, just like him and his team. He didn't see they are really Chinese scientists, and they all work under the control, and motivations, of the Chinese Communist Party. China did what they always do. They conned him into bringing his research to Wuhan, and the US taxpayer paid for China to create it, and steal it.

 

Donald Trump is elected, and he makes no secret about what he's gonna do about China... and he does it. Trump was destroying the China economy. China was out for blood. They enlisted their allies in the US Congress to take him down, and they did everything they could. It all failed. Then when it became obvious that the second impeachment would fail... they released the coronavirus.

 

Fauci and his friends, rode the wave, rigged an election, and got rich.

 

Those of us that never learned about how Communist governments "take care" of their people would say "China would never release a virus on their own people"... well they don't know the Chinese Communist Party. Read history that your teachers refuse to teach.

 

The economy of the entire world has been shattered, and millions of our weakest people have died. Every country on the planet has suffered... except China. It's exactly what they needed... it's exactly what they wanted... and it looks like the stupidest among us are gonna let them get away with it. Something tells me it's not gonna be that easy for them.

[Chaplain of death]

First of all, Gain of Function research on a virus is intended to force a virus to mutate into a more dangerous, and contagious, virus in order to learn how to fight them, and to create vaccines to counter them. It doesn't take a scientist to figure out how bad this can be.

 

Dr. Anthony Fauci is a scientist. He believes deep in his heart that he's a good man. He has high regard, and ultimate trust, in other scientists. He believes they all have the same motivations. They do not. Dr. Anthony Fauci trusts the scientists in China, because they are scientists. He thought they were the same good scientists, just like him and his team. He didn't see they are really Chinese scientists, and they all work under the control, and motivations, of the Chinese Communist Party. China did what they always do. They conned him into bringing his research to Wuhan, and the US taxpayer paid for China to create it, and steal it.

 

Donald Trump is elected, and he makes no secret about what he's gonna do about China... and he does it. Trump was destroying the China economy. China was out for blood. They enlisted their allies in the US Congress to take him down, and they did everything they could. It all failed. Then when it became obvious that the second impeachment would fail... they released the coronavirus.

 

Fauci and his friends, rode the wave, rigged an election, and got rich.

 

Those of us that never learned about how Communist governments "take care" of their people would say "China would never release a virus on their own people"... well they don't know the Chinese Communist Party. Read history that your teachers refuse to teach.

 

The economy of the entire world has been shattered, and millions of our weakest people have died. Every country on the planet has suffered... except China. It's exactly what they needed... it's exactly what they wanted... and it looks like the stupidest among us are gonna let them get away with it. Something tells me it's not gonna be that easy for them.

 

See but literally that was what we were disagreeing on was the literal definition of the term.

 

I agree that its entirely possible that GoF research was co-opted by China and that intentional or otherwise that it was the cause of this pandemic. I do find it odd that you can both refuse to acknowledge that the Coronavirus pandemic is dangerous, but then also think it was released as a biological weapon by the Chinese government. Those seem like conflicting theories in my opinion. 

 

You lose me in the "the democrats are secret communists and they stole the election because trump was so great" theory. Do I think Trump was as bad overall as what I personally expected when he was elected or what the left usually says? No. I think he did some things that harmed our country, mostly in an effort to line his own pockets, but more than anything he harmed our international image by making the oval office a circus. I definitely don't agree with the vast majority of the things he did, but that's par for the course since I'm not a republican. The only hard evidence I've seen of impropriety in terms of the presidential election was perpetrated by Trump himself when he called up the Georgia secretary of state and outright told him to "find" enough votes to flip the results in his favor. 

 

Also just going to point out a timeline issue. The impeachment left the house on December 18 at which time the Coronavirus was already hitting China. China started getting hit by Coronavirus as early as November. They went public with it on December 1st, and as you have stated given the history of the Chinese government, that means its highly likely they had recognized that it was an issue months in advance. At the very least there's evidence of people going to hospitals with similar symptoms in November in China.

[Lysistrata]

If China released the virus on purpose... they must pay for it.

If China released the virus accidentally... they must pay for it.

 

Either way, they are responsible. This was way worse than Chernobyl, and we gave the Russians hell for that. The entire planet must sanction the hell out of China until they come clean, take full responsibility, and make absolutely sure it never happens again. If not, this is gonna get ugly, because they will never be trusted ever again until they make it right... and Fauci has to own up to his part in all this as well... because it's his baby. He's the daddy.

 

I would say about 10 trillion US dollars would be a good start.

 

Covid-19 is a manufactured virus... nasty, but not the worst. I have always believed this was a practice run. Think about how bad it can really be, and then think about what we need to do to stop it... or just prepare for China to play their next card.

[Chaplain of death]

If China released the virus on purpose... they must pay for it.

If China released the virus accidentally... they must pay for it.

 

Either way, they are responsible. This was way worse than Chernobyl, and we gave the Russians hell for that. The entire planet must sanction the hell out of China until they come clean, take full responsibility, and make absolutely sure it never happens again. If not, this is gonna get ugly, because they will never be trusted ever again until they make it right... and Fauci has to own up to his part in all this as well... because it's his baby. He's the daddy.

 

I would say about 10 trillion US dollars would be a good start.

 

Covid-19 is a manufactured virus... nasty, but not the worst. I have always believed this was a practice run. Think about how bad it can really be, and then think about what we need to do to stop it... or just prepare for China to play their next card.

 

I have exactly 0 problems with that. China mishandled things early with the pandemic which cost the entire world lives. 

[Lysistrata]

Also just going to point out a timeline issue. The impeachment left the house on December 18 at which time the Coronavirus was already hitting China. China started getting hit by Coronavirus as early as November. They went public with it on December 1st, and as you have stated given the history of the Chinese government, that means its highly likely they had recognized that it was an issue months in advance. At the very least there's evidence of people going to hospitals with similar symptoms in November in China.

I'm glad to hear we agree on something.

 

I have trouble with your timeline. The CDC were notified about a "mysterious respiratory illness spreading in Wuhan" January 3, 2019. We can't possibly trust claims from officials in China about anything before that. They have been lying about everything.

[Chaplain of death]

Its possible but there's also satellite images of far increased traffic at Chinese hospitals around Wuhan in November. Could have been for different reasons by I doubt it.

[Lysistrata]

Its possible but there's also satellite images of far increased traffic at Chinese hospitals around Wuhan in November. Could have been for different reasons by I doubt it.

Hmmm... one and a half billion people, and we're gonna look at a satellite image and count who we think are sick people in Wuhan, in November 2018... just in case a pandemic breaks out. That's amazing that we were able to predict it... right down to the city block where it happened, and over two months before anyone had even heard of it. This makes us sound pretty damn guilty.

 

Are you sure you want to defend China with this piece of horse shit?

[Chaplain of death]

 

Its possible but there's also satellite images of far increased traffic at Chinese hospitals around Wuhan in November. Could have been for different reasons by I doubt it.

Hmmm... one and a half billion people, and we're gonna look at a satellite image and count who we think are sick people in Wuhan, in November 2018... just in case a pandemic breaks out. That's amazing that we were able to predict it... right down to the city block where it happened, and over two months before anyone had even heard of it. This makes us sound pretty damn guilty.

 

Are you sure you want to defend China with this piece of horse shit?

 

 

I don't think I'm defending China, also it would still be 2019. Are you reading what I'm typing or responding to the points you think I'm going to respond with?

[ccabal86]

 

I don't think I'm defending China, also it would still be 2019. Are you reading what I'm typing or responding to the points you think I'm going to respond with?

 

Judging by longstanding experience, it's really the latter with Lys.