What else do you want me to say, i had no idea why i moved last night, maybe im a sleepwalker, one thing is for sure,EM is the real mafia.

 

VOTE COUNT

Electric Mango (2): CanucksDynasty, Kasabian

Kasabian (2): Electric Mango, Kaziocore

 

Not Voting (6): ccabal86, Preston, AKCPLUTO, KevinH, Chaoshawk, Tactical Evil Dan

 

With 10 Alive, 6 is needed to lynch.

Edited February 24, 201115 yr by molestargazer

and btw Kaziocore,im not dodging anything, i didnt answer his question because im working all day long, and just now i can sit at my computer and check the post.

What else do you want me to say, i had no idea why i moved last night, maybe im a sleepwalker, one thing is for sure,EM is the real mafia.

 

I'm 99% sure that you would be told if you had a special trait, so you not knowing is quite simply unbelievable

 

Vote: Kasabian

I'm 99% sure that you would be told if you had a special trait, so you not knowing is quite simply unbelievable

 

Vote: Kasabian

 

Not exactly, perhaps mole gave me a Secret Role that i haven't been able to discovered yet.

Before I begin my responses, I will preface it all with this: I am not yet ATTACKING CD - I am noting that at present the entire house of cards is based on the validity of his roleclaim. Note that in all my posts I was very careful to paint both sides to see how you'd respond. If we start weaving all of our analysis around the assumption that CD's roleclaim is valid, we risk making a mistake if this is in fact a very clever scum ploy. You're supposedly one of the more experienced players CD, and I could see you doing a very well-thought-out fake roleclaim. I could also see you telling the unvarnished truth here, believing it'd give us a quick game win. The problem is that it's day 2, and right now your words have nothing to back them up. With that said, here we go:

@Preston -

1. I had no reason to come out and paint a target on my back.

- This argument doesn't mean anything to me. If you are scum, you're not actually a target and this is just grabbing for townie points - you can claim "mafia just didnt target me" when you continue to survive, or just not say anything at all. If you are NOT lying, then it IS a target... but the reason you came out is to share information because you were a townie and you had no benefit to staying silent.

 

2. I roleclaimed in order to put forth the information I received before I get killed. If I die...then the info would have died with me.

- See above; this would be the reason came out. Self-evident if you are townie; claiming the obvious if you're scum.

 

3. No one has counter claimed.

- Absence of a counter-claim means nothing. Presence of another cop role would not preclude yours being valid. They might not want to 'come out paint a target on their back,' as you said.

 

4. Paraphrasing and using synonyms so I don't get modkilled. "You see EM, Kasa, and player X moved last night. I am now cognizant that Player X is not mafia."

So you see...because of that info...I can reasonably assume that Player X is townie.

- This is what I was asking for. While not proof, it shows what you claim you saw. I am curious how you initially took this to be a doctor as you did in your first post, however.

 

5. If there was more pro-town power roles than 3...don't you think that would unbalance the game???

What makes more sense? 11 players = 3 mafia, 3 pro-roles, 5 vanillas or 11 players = 3 mafia, 4 pro-roles, 4 vanillas?

- Pro-town roles do not mean beneficial roles, but KevinH's later response seems to have covered this:

mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Roles has many examples of very weak roles. I would see nothing wrong with a game where there is no vanilla townie. Each player with a weak role would have a little bit of extra interest in the game.

Until we see a townie death with no role, we won't know if this is or isnt the case.

 

Preston - you're really trying hard to paint me in a bad light. Why? Are you trying to protect your scum buddies? If you really doubt my claim...then vote for me. I am not afraid to be lynched as it will confirm to the rest of the town that what I had said is true. And for those that would have voted for me...most likely the 3rd mafia would have voted for me.

 

Your move.

- Per above; this is not yet an attack on you, and I am NOT defending them - I pointedly advocated for Kasabian's lynch as a way to test your analysis, and EM's after if he proves scum. Consider that last game noone countered KevinH's suggestion that we not give the scum roles that could interfere with a cop for a page's worth of posts: Mafia very nearly got roles chosen they would have LOVED, until you and someone else did extra analysis to challenge their premise. I serve the town by questioning you now.

 

1 - Can't edit so that if you slip up you can't change it.

- I'm aware of this. But regardless you CAN see I doublequoted your post by accident, and it DOES look sloppy.

 

2 - I don't know if it is a Player X is a doctor or not. What I do know is it was conveyed to me that Player X is not mafia. If Player X chose someone else...then all I would have known was that he moved.

- You originally said you suspected doctor, then you said you dont know. This could be a slipup on your part or this could be nothing. Your paraphrase above defines what you saw, which is more than I had when I posted originally. You could also have crafted the statement only when prompted to support your claim. At this point we simply do not know.

 

With that said, if your roleclaim is genuine you still do not know anything about PlayerX other than that you were told you believe they are not mafia. Just last game we had a Ninja and a Godfather; the former would not show up moving, the latter would show up false-innocent. False investigation results are possible, and I am curious that you seem to be disregarding this possibility.

 

3 - it's option 2. EM's alibi sole purpose is to make it harder for the town? I don't buy it...not even for a second.

- Again referencing KevinH's post and link above - negative roles can exist.

 

Player X can vouch for me since I believe it is part of his role description that I would be informed.

However, I don't want that to happen as it will most likely out our last pro-town power role.

- Without attacking you, I have to note the convenience of this statement; the proof that can vouch for you, you cannot reveal and you suggest not present itself. Mind, I dont disagree with the suggestion that other townie roles not roleclaim... but I trust you can see how this goes back to what I said earlier about you having no proof to validate your roleclaim on day 2. The proof will come when one of your targets is lynched as a valid scum, or not.

 

Also, in the vein of your earlier "If I die...then the info would have died with me." - If you are telling the truth and you die tonight, Player X loses all means to verify themselves town and reduce the number of suspects to find the final mafia. You seem pretty confident scum will target you tonight; that would give Player X at least one more day's worth of time to use their ability.

 

@Preston - here's another thing since you think I am lying.

 

Out of all of the players...I would have been extremely lucky to have chosen that I saw EM moving about who just so happens to be a wondering insomniac that has no special purpose other than to confuse someone watching them. What are the odds? And I chose Kasabian as well who hasn't said a lick about moving during the night. I guess I must have really gotten lucky in picking these 2 townies.

 

/sarcasm.

- As I previously stated, EM's claim is in response to your own - there's no "luck" there. That those whom you have pointed at attempt to defend themselves is not a surprise at all; last game we even had a vanilla townie fake-roleclaim to avoid lynching. I don't entirely trust EM's roleclaim, though we haven't seen a vanilla townie yet and KevinH could be onto something there. If EM's roleclaim is fake it's a nicely done one though.

 

If you are scum, EM is either scum fakeroleclaiming, townie fakeroleclaiming or actually insomniac. The last is very unlikely because then it WOULD be luck to have picked him. The middle I am HOPING is not true as that would just be messed up, though again there is precedent for it - and I was told last game that it's not even uncommon for it to happen. The first is possible - scum coordinating a means to prove one of their number innocent for the rest of the game, especially if they judged EM was a likely day2 lynch target based on yesterday's votes.

 

If you are town, EM is either scum fakeroleclaiming, townie fakeroleclaiming, or genuine insomniac. First case, awesome: We've found scum. Second case... ugh, I hope onot. Third case: possible, but annoying. Again until we see a vanilla townie death, we have no clue.

 

@ Preston - your lynch scenario is off if I was mafia.

 

Hypothetically if EM and Kasa were townies...

D2 - lynch EM = townie death = 6 townies, 3 mafia left.

N2 - nightkill townie (assuming no saves) = 5 townies, 3 mafia left.

D3 - lynch Kasa = townie death = 4 townies, 3 mafia

N3 - nightkill towie (assuming no saves) = 3 townies, 3 mafia.

At this point it is game over since the number of townies = number of mafia.

 

- Thanks for correcting this; I thought mafia had to have majority instead of just equal numbers. If you were scum, then it WOULD only take two more failed lynches to clinch the win, and you have provided two targets.

 

While it may seem convenient to you the fact is...

1. No one has counter claimed my role.

2. I have someone (Player X) that can back up my statement.

- See above for my responses to these two. Again - everything that has followed today has depended on your roleclaim. When you can remove one piece and you're back to square one, you need to question the validity of that first piece pretty strongly. Noone else is doing this, so therefore I am.

 

Also your D1 vote on EM can be seen as a distancing vote.

- Yes, it can. It can also be seen as me trusting your analysis about EM acting differently than usual, and trying to make something other than a no-lynch happen for the reasons I stated.

 

On D1 - mostly everyone wanted to follow the cop. We have no cop. Just me the Security Guard. You guys wanted info...I gave it.

I would prefer to lynch EM since it seems that some people have given a reason to keep him around.

Which makes me suspect that he has an additional power (ie. roleblocker?).

- What you have given is a scenario, not yet verified as valid information. As I stated, EM comes with a built-in "valid mistake, still trust me" card for you if we lynch him and he's townie, due to that insomniac roleclaim. I don't trust that roleclaim, but neither do I like the idea of going with your order exactly as presented.

 

Consider also the possibility that you ARE town and EM IS Insomniac. While I am less inclined to believe in negative roles, if we lynch EM first and he's town then your claim is semi-disproven and YOU may be lynched next. You should be happier to lynch Kasabian first, by virtue of it being the quicker route to proving the rest of your statements true. Lynching kasabian first - assuming that's how votes fall - allows us an earlier scumcheck against you without the ability for you to claim honest error. It's a half-and-half: you specify the targets, but you dont specify the order. If you pass the check, then we will both have more reason to trust your analysis AND we'll have more breathing room to hunt the last few mafia.

 

I think I've replied to this pretty thoroughly - huge wall of text. Ask me anything else you want more detail on and I will respond to that too. I'm fine with you FoS'ing me, but even as you FoS me you must acknowledge that everything you have said today will remain totally unconfirmed until it either produces a scum lynch or you are nightkilled and post-mortem proves your role - which is essentially all I have said.

 

I will not vote for you today because if you ARE telling the truth, then you are a valuable townie. If one of your two targets is town however, you'd better believe you're going to get an even closer look.

 

I put the onus back on you: Stand by your own analysis and vote for Kasabian, the one who can't excuse you if he's town.

 

And I'll put my money where my mouth is, too:

 

Vote: Kasabian

 

-Preston

@ Kevin ~ Thanks for the well wishes. It's my wife's and my anniversary tomorrow so I took the day off from work to prepare for a special day for her. This will be our 16th wedding anniversary, in this day an age, that seems to be a pretty good number.

 

Now to more serious business....

 

On the townieness of CD: Pro-town. Why? If he was scum why would he role claim? He's pretty much the equivalent of a cop in this game. It would be a pretty daring move for him to role claim so early at this stage. If he was scum, our real cop would counter-claim and CD would be killed. CD is an experienced enough player to not fall into that trap and it is for this reason that I believe him to be pro-town.

 

Preston is also someone who seems to me to be another pro-town player. He gives very insightful analysis and by studying his posts I can deduce that he has spent a lot of time into his analysis of the current game. This to me gives him a pro-town vibe. Mafia have the advantage of already knowing who is who and it is the burden of the towns people to sift through the discussions to find the truth. Because Preston has done a lot of research and re-reading of posts to provide analysis, I believe him to be townie.

 

Kasabian, if it's not me then it has to be you. Since I believe CD and I know myself to be town, I know you to be scum. One of the three that CD saw has to be mafia and you're the only one left.

 

My alignment: Pro-town. To first begin this discussion we need to analyze CD's role as Security Guard which in normal games would have been the role of the cop or detective. The security guard is allowed to detect the night movements of players but not their alignment. A cop/detective is allowed to see the alignment of one player. Furthermore the SG does not have to specify which players he wants to investigate, unlike a cop or detective. So far the security guard seems way more overpowered than a cop because he can see the night movement of everyone and does not have to guess at which player he wants to look into. How would Mole counter-balance this role? One thing he omitted from the SG role is not being able to pick up on the alignment. Still, would Mole let CD know the identities of two mafia on the very 1st night plus let CD know that the 3rd person is pro-town? That makes CD's role way to overpowered. Mole counter balanced that by making me an insomniac. A townie who has no special powers but stays up at night to make CD's job more difficult.

 

Odds: The ratio of town to mafia is always roughly 3-1. It's been like that since I've started playing mafia and probably always will. Why? Because it balances out the game. I ask again, why would Mole let CD know 2 out of 3 mafia on Day 1? I believe he let him see 1 out 3. CD knows a townie, a mafia, and me.

 

Towns plan: Lynch Kasabian/Protect CD. We will lynch a scum and not me. Also when CD watches the camera tonight, he will see the movement of me, secret townie, and a new person instead of Kasabian. That new person will be the next scum who is going out for his night kill. We wait for CD to report the identity of that person and lynch them on the start of Day 3.

@ Kevin ~ Thanks for the well wishes. It's my wife's and my anniversary tomorrow so I took the day off from work to prepare for a special day for her. This will be our 16th wedding anniversary, in this day an age, that seems to be a pretty good number.

 

Now to more serious business....

 

On the townieness of CD: Pro-town. Why? If he was scum why would he role claim? He's pretty much the equivalent of a cop in this game. It would be a pretty daring move for him to role claim so early at this stage. If he was scum, our real cop would counter-claim and CD would be killed. CD is an experienced enough player to not fall into that trap and it is for this reason that I believe him to be pro-town.

 

Preston is also someone who seems to me to be another pro-town player. He gives very insightful analysis and by studying his posts I can deduce that he has spent a lot of time into his analysis of the current game. This to me gives him a pro-town vibe. Mafia have the advantage of already knowing who is who and it is the burden of the towns people to sift through the discussions to find the truth. Because Preston has done a lot of research and re-reading of posts to provide analysis, I believe him to be townie.

 

Kasabian, if it's not me then it has to be you. Since I believe CD and I know myself to be town, I know you to be scum. One of the three that CD saw has to be mafia and you're the only one left.

 

My alignment: Pro-town. To first begin this discussion we need to analyze CD's role as Security Guard which in normal games would have been the role of the cop or detective. The security guard is allowed to detect the night movements of players but not their alignment. A cop/detective is allowed to see the alignment of one player. Furthermore the SG does not have to specify which players he wants to investigate, unlike a cop or detective. So far the security guard seems way more overpowered than a cop because he can see the night movement of everyone and does not have to guess at which player he wants to look into. How would Mole counter-balance this role? One thing he omitted from the SG role is not being able to pick up on the alignment. Still, would Mole let CD know the identities of two mafia on the very 1st night plus let CD know that the 3rd person is pro-town? That makes CD's role way to overpowered. Mole counter balanced that by making me an insomniac. A townie who has no special powers but stays up at night to make CD's job more difficult.

 

Odds: The ratio of town to mafia is always roughly 3-1. It's been like that since I've started playing mafia and probably always will. Why? Because it balances out the game. I ask again, why would Mole let CD know 2 out of 3 mafia on Day 1? I believe he let him see 1 out 3. CD knows a townie, a mafia, and me.

 

Towns plan: Lynch Kasabian/Protect CD. We will lynch a scum and not me. Also when CD watches the camera tonight, he will see the movement of me, secret townie, and a new person instead of Kasabian. That new person will be the next scum who is going out for his night kill. We wait for CD to report the identity of that person and lynch them on the start of Day 3.

@ Kevin ~ Thanks for the well wishes. It's my wife's and my anniversary tomorrow so I took the day off from work to prepare for a special day for her. This will be our 16th wedding anniversary, in this day an age, that seems to be a pretty good number.

 

Now to more serious business....

 

On the townieness of CD: Pro-town. Why? If he was scum why would he role claim? He's pretty much the equivalent of a cop in this game. It would be a pretty daring move for him to role claim so early at this stage. If he was scum, our real cop would counter-claim and CD would be killed. CD is an experienced enough player to not fall into that trap and it is for this reason that I believe him to be pro-town.

 

Preston is also someone who seems to me to be another pro-town player. He gives very insightful analysis and by studying his posts I can deduce that he has spent a lot of time into his analysis of the current game. This to me gives him a pro-town vibe. Mafia have the advantage of already knowing who is who and it is the burden of the towns people to sift through the discussions to find the truth. Because Preston has done a lot of research and re-reading of posts to provide analysis, I believe him to be townie.

 

Kasabian, if it's not me then it has to be you. Since I believe CD and I know myself to be town, I know you to be scum. One of the three that CD saw has to be mafia and you're the only one left.

 

My alignment: Pro-town. To first begin this discussion we need to analyze CD's role as Security Guard which in normal games would have been the role of the cop or detective. The security guard is allowed to detect the night movements of players but not their alignment. A cop/detective is allowed to see the alignment of one player. Furthermore the SG does not have to specify which players he wants to investigate, unlike a cop or detective. So far the security guard seems way more overpowered than a cop because he can see the night movement of everyone and does not have to guess at which player he wants to look into. How would Mole counter-balance this role? One thing he omitted from the SG role is not being able to pick up on the alignment. Still, would Mole let CD know the identities of two mafia on the very 1st night plus let CD know that the 3rd person is pro-town? That makes CD's role way to overpowered. Mole counter balanced that by making me an insomniac. A townie who has no special powers but stays up at night to make CD's job more difficult.

 

Odds: The ratio of town to mafia is always roughly 3-1. It's been like that since I've started playing mafia and probably always will. Why? Because it balances out the game. I ask again, why would Mole let CD know 2 out of 3 mafia on Day 1? I believe he let him see 1 out 3. CD knows a townie, a mafia, and me.

 

Towns plan: Lynch Kasabian/Protect CD. We will lynch a scum and not me. Also when CD watches the camera tonight, he will see the movement of me, secret townie, and a new person instead of Kasabian. That new person will be the next scum who is going out for his night kill. We wait for CD to report the identity of that person and lynch them on the start of Day 3.

Also, I see Preston and CD watching and I would be most interested in hearing what you have to say.

......and I just realized I did a double triple post! God I'm such a noob sometimes

At present I have little to add. I am waiting for CD's response, and likely signing off for the night soon so I may not reply in full till tomorrow.

 

EM added one element I didnt remember: why would two mafia be active at night. We saw one night kill, but no other obvious mafia night action. This does not preclude something we couldn't see - some sort of a mafia role cop is possible - but that one of their actions is the night kill is logical. It is possible that, if EM's insomniac role is real, only the night kill took place last night. It's also possible PersonX was mafia using a 'fake-innocence' ability. At present we simply do not know.

 

My statement remains; Kasabian first, then make decisions based on that afterward.

 

-Preston

Congrats EM!

Now I have to wait until the end of the game to know if Electric Mango is telling the truth about his 16th anniversary.

It could be a fake claim ...

 

I'll give the benefit of the doubt.

 

Vote: Kasabian

 

Happy Anniversary, EM!

It is time for me to counterclaim. It is MY 16th anniversary, not EM's! J/k congrats man

 

@ Kasabian: yes, there are secret roles which the player is unaware of but are very seldom used. But at this moment, you are most likely to be scum. You are also not putting too much effort into defending yourself, it looks like you've givenup...

If you are scum, EM is either scum fakeroleclaiming, townie fakeroleclaiming or actually insomniac. The last is very unlikely because then it WOULD be luck to have picked him. The middle I am HOPING is not true as that would just be messed up, though again there is precedent for it - and I was told last game that it's not even uncommon for it to happen. The first is possible - scum coordinating a means to prove one of their number innocent for the rest of the game, especially if they judged EM was a likely day2 lynch target based on yesterday's votes.

 

I believe EM fake role-claiming as townie is very unlikely as

(1) he's an experienced player and I think there's a kind of unwritten rule that says lynch all lairs

(2) if he knows that he's townie without any role and some random person started to claim he saw

him targeting/moving at night, he'll be suspicious of this person

EM added one element I didnt remember: why would two mafia be active at night. We saw one night kill, but no other obvious mafia night action. This does not preclude something we couldn't see - some sort of a mafia role cop is possible - but that one of their actions is the night kill is logical. It is possible that, if EM's insomniac role is real, only the night kill took place last night. It's also possible PersonX was mafia using a 'fake-innocence' ability. At present we simply do not know.

 

Logically it would be a role-blocker to counter the number of pro-town roles we have.

Woah wait what? Apart from the possible distancing vote, what makes me so suspicious that I have to by lynched right after Kasabian, even though our other "prime" target is EM?

 

Reread my post. I only said that you could be one of the three mafia members.

Aside from the possible distancing vote, your support no lynch also made you one of my suspects

(Not necessarily with your no lynch, you're suspicious but this increased the suspicion on you).

Yes I still remember and yes I still disagree with the no lynch on day 1.

Oh, ok fair enough

@Preston - Holy wall of text batman. Good on you for being suspicous. That's typically how I play the game.

 

Typical pro-town power roles are the "cop" and "doc".

I saw Nerau as a roleblocker. My role as the cop. So naturally I would assume the Player X is the doc.

Hence why I said doc in a few of my posts. In truth, I don't know the actual power but had assume it to be so.

 

As I said...I'm not concerned at the order.

Just that I think EM has an ability (like a roleblocker).

 

Unvote

Vote: Kasabian.

@EM - Holy Triple Post Batman.

 

You're still trying to claim townie. You're desparately trying to come up with a plausible way for your movement at night. Right now...you're GUESSING the mechanics of the game. Sometimes the simpliest solution is the correct one. You're mafia.

I believe EM fake role-claiming as townie is very unlikely as

(1) he's an experienced player and I think there's a kind of unwritten rule that says lynch all lairs

(2) if he knows that he's townie without any role and some random person started to claim he saw

him targeting/moving at night, he'll be suspicious of this person

 

 

He didn't roleclaim out of the blue.

He did it to save his own skin when I pegged him as mafia.

There's a difference here.

 

EM fake role-claiming as townie is very likely if he's mafia and needs to save his own skin.

My list

 

Townies

CanucksDynasty - me

 

 

Don't know

Ccabal 86

KevinH

ACKPLUTO

Choashawk

 

 

Who I am leaning towards being mafia

Kaziocore - asked if my powers were roleblockable

TED - possible distancing vote on EM

Preston - possible distancing vote on EM

 

 

Who I think are mafia

EM

Kasabian

 

 

 

After Kasabian, and then after EM, I'd probably lynch Kazio.

Kazio asked the oddest question which gave mafia the knowledge of my role being able to be blocked.

He didn't roleclaim out of the blue.

He did it to save his own skin when I pegged him as mafia.

There's a difference here.

 

EM fake role-claiming as townie is very likely if he's mafia and needs to save his own skin.

 

 

Oops...Sorry Kazio.

Your quote was taken out of the context as you were referring to EM fake roleclaiming provided if I was scum.

 

My above quote is from my point of view.

Kazio asked the oddest question which gave mafia the knowledge of my role being able to be blocked.

 

To be fair, it wasn't the question that gave them the knowledge, it was your answer. You are the one that gave them the knowledge not Kazio.

 

@Kazio - my role description does not state I am unblockable. It would be too powerful if it was.

To be fair, it wasn't the question that gave them the knowledge, it was your answer. You are the one that gave them the knowledge not Kazio.

 

True. I didn't really give it much thought when I answered it. But as I re-read the pages...it occured to me that I gave additional info that wasn't really necessary. He specifically asked me if I was blockable. And I just realized that it was an odd question to ask. Thus I have my suspicions on him.