The discussion above is quite interesting, but it does raise a newbie question....

 

Are roles in maffia games "standard"? Or can the moderator just make up roles on the fly?

 

Also: how long can a day last maximum? If we do not reach some vote, can we keep on discussing for years, or is there a deadline?

 

Other than that, I have not seen any reason to change my view that D3mon is a suspect (as is EM)

 

I'd love to see a new vote-count.

 

1. I can just make them up.

2. 2 weeks. The deadline is in the subtitle for this topic, and this is in... one of the rules somewhere.

3. Vote counts are at the top of each page.

-M

Edited April 9, 201115 yr by molestargazer

There are some "basic" roles, like doctor, cop, vigilante, etc, but these can be heavily modded. The mod can also make up unique roles, such as the "Curious Child" in the last game. And there is a deadline to the game, Apr. 15. It's stated on the first page

While true that a mafia counterclaim could be used to finish off d3mon today if he actually has a town role, when lynched we would all see that d3mon really was the role he claimed to be - and we would have an all-but-certain scum target to lynch on day 2. Fake-roleclaiming is risky; it ultimately catches up with you. Good question to ask though!

 

So thus far we have two votes for roleclaim and one for no-roleclaim. Narsis, what say you?

 

-Preston

 

Might as well chalk up another vote for roleclaim then.

So... (and no, I am not roleclaiming a curious kid by being curious)... what was the deal with the curious kid? What could it do?

So... (and no, I am not roleclaiming a curious kid by being curious)... what was the deal with the curious kid? What could it do?

It had a chance of discovering something during the night phase. The chance % was not released though I think

It had a chance of discovering something during the night phase. The chance % was not released though I think

Mole revealed after the game that the curious kid's investigation ability corresponded to the janitor role the mafia had that game. If the mafia used their janitor to hide info about their night kill victim, the child would then have a chance of discovering the body/information in some form. Specific % chance to discover was never released, but since the janitor role was never used the curious child never discovered anything.

 

-Preston

 

VOTE COUNT

KevinH (2): Narsis, Herodez

ccabal86 (2): Nerau, Electric Mango

TerrorChrist (2): CaoCao, d3mon

d3mon (2): ccabal86, CanucksDynasty

Electric Mango (1): TerrorChrist

 

No Lynch (1): KevinH

 

Not Voting (1): Preston

 

With 11 Alive, 6 is needed to lynch.

Edited April 12, 201115 yr by molestargazer

If the full role-claim is made, we need to decide if we believe it.

 

The mafia will know whether he's a townie or not. They'll use the revealed role to decide to spend the night-kill on him.

 

If d3mon is pressured into a full role-claim he has some choices to make.

 

If he has a strong role, he could lie and say he has a weak role and the scum won't target him. But then he has to play out the lie.

 

If he has a really weak role, then he could lie and say he has a strong role to attract the night-kill which would save the truly strong roles. (Sacrifice himself for the greater good.)

 

He could tell the truth. Mama always said, "Honesty is the best policy" but I don't think she played Mafia.

KevinH, you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

So assuming that I make a full role claim, does it gaurantee that the town will not lynch me? From my point of view it seems that town doesn't need any more information to decide that.

 

If the town has decided to lynch then so be it.

 

A quick question: I dont need to be alive to win right? If town wins then every townie wins... correct?

If you're town and the town wins, you win regardless if you're dead or alive.

Why does it seem that KevinH is defending d3mon so much?

If you're town and the town wins, you win regardless if you're dead or alive.

Unless you're modkilled. You lose regardless of the outcome.

Why does it seem that KevinH is defending d3mon so much?

 

That was my impression as well...

MOD: Nerau and Herodez have not posted in a while. Please prod.

I read back through all of Kevins posts and didn't see any posts where Kevin defended d3mon. What are you two talking about?

If the full role-claim is made, we need to decide if we believe it.

 

The mafia will know whether he's a townie or not. They'll use the revealed role to decide to spend the night-kill on him.

 

If d3mon is pressured into a full role-claim he has some choices to make.

 

If he has a strong role, he could lie and say he has a weak role and the scum won't target him. But then he has to play out the lie.

 

If he has a really weak role, then he could lie and say he has a strong role to attract the night-kill which would save the truly strong roles. (Sacrifice himself for the greater good.)

 

He could tell the truth. Mama always said, "Honesty is the best policy" but I don't think she played Mafia.

I made this same point earlier about the double-edged nature of role claiming, particularly how he could try to be a lightning rod for scum's night kill - though you've added some in terms of how his lying or not would fit into the picture. All of this assumes he's town stuck in a bad position due to earlier playing; if he's simply scum trying to avoid a lynch then of course any role he claims or doesnt claim will be a lie. I'll respond to your points first, then address CD's statement about your defending d3mon.

 

If he doesn't roleclaim at all (though nearly everyone else in this thread appears to agree it's become necessary), he's lynched because there's no new information to get him off the hook.

 

If he lies and claims a weak role or no role, especially one we couldnt test in some form in later days - odds are good we'll end up lynching him anyway, since that would be more of a scum tactic; it's far riskier for scum to claim a big role that someone else may have and be able to counterclaim on than a small one that is less likely to be repeated. But as you said he would have to stick with his lie and any future roleclaim would be even more suspect - he would probably end up lynched later for contradicting himself.

 

If he lies and claims a major role that would indeed force us to consider if we wanted to preserve him on the chance of his telling the truth - and he might draw the scum nightkill. BUT he could easily also end up repeating an existing role per above... and while the person who actually has his actual role might not counterclaim immediately, they'd push for a vote against him and possibly end today with the lynch anyway.

 

If he tells the truth, then our reaction will be the same above based on what his role actually is or isnt - if he tells the truth about a major role we'll be forced to think one way, where the truth about a minor role will not benefit him as much. However when basing a claim off his actual role PM he would have the advantage of having more detailed information to defend himself with (paraphrased of course) - more that we could cross-examine for consistency. Truth would also mean less chance of a counter claim coming forward now or later, and if we do end up lynching him anyway then we would know exactly what his role WAS instead of just a name - consider if the 'curious child' last game had been lynched without first having roleclaimed, the general reaction would be "wtf is this?".

 

So that wraps it up for d3mon's options.

 

KevinH, you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

So assuming that I make a full role claim, does it gaurantee that the town will not lynch me? From my point of view it seems that town doesn't need any more information to decide that.

 

If the town has decided to lynch then so be it.

Per my earlier post d3mon, with enough suspicion focused on you anything you say truthful or not will be suspect. There is no guarantee that a full roleclaim will make people NOT lynch you, because we are well aware that you could be scum trying to avoid a day1 lynch so you can use your role at night. The important bit is that if you DON'T roleclaim, then your lynch is basically assured - in which case people are going to find out about your role anyway. More information is the only thing that COULD save you (absent someone else slipping up and becoming a new target), and it's up to you to decide to try or not.

 

Why does it seem that KevinH is defending d3mon so much?

This is a screwed up situation to deal with roleclaims so early, but at this point d3mon has become suspicious enough with his actions and hinted role that I believe that a full roleclaim is necessary. However I can understand KevinH balking at the idea; I was hesitant writing up my earlier analysis because I wasnt sure at the time if it really was or wasnt in town's interest, and it's a strange thing to be ASKING someone to roleclaim. All the responses Ive seen thus far though have supported my original theory that at this point it's necessary.

 

So far I would not call KevinH's analysis of d3mon excessive or overt defense; his analysis has mostly followed the same lines I've been expressing. We cannot ignore the chance d3mon could be town instead of scum, and a devils' advocate is needed to say that in the face of everyone else thinking someone else (though you nearly lynched me for that last game! )

 

So then: after all the analysis that's been done, my final thought is that yes d3mon should roleclaim now.

 

That makes a total of 5 (Preston, CD, EM, Cao Cao, and ccabal) who have said a full roleclaim is necessary for us to decide what to do next. KevinH is voting no-roleclaim. d3mon cant vote for himself, TerrorChrist is asking questions but not yet stating a position and Narsis/Nerau/Herodez are inactive/not posting.

 

It's up to you now d3mon. Remember to PARAPHRASE your role PM; do NOT copy/paste it. Including the verbatim name of your role is/should be safe though.

 

-Preston

So what exactly do you plan to do if d3mon doesn't roleclaim at all?

At the risk of repeating myself.. I dont think a role claim would help the town or me.

 

@Preston - According to me the vote count is 4-2. Cao Cao has not indicated his opinion and has mostly raised questions regarding the need for a role claim.

Also, I suspect that scum is voting for a role claim (why not??), so the actual townie votes might be 3-2, 2-2 or even 1-2

 

Assuming, I role claim to avoid being lynched on day1. I see the following scenarios

 

1) I have a strong power role - Assuming scum has a role blocker, they can block my night actions and ensure that I have nothing to prove the next day. With all this suspicion, I would probably be lynched on day 2.

 

2) I claim a weak role - Again a role blocker would create a scenario pretty similar to 1. This also might not stop the town from lynching me.

 

3) I claim a negative town role - Town lynches me.

 

So, in all, the question for me is... Do you want to be lynched on day 1 or day 2? I will take day 1 with no role claim.

I would also like to see the opinion of inactives/replacements.

Might as well chalk up another vote for roleclaim then.

 

 

At the risk of repeating myself.. I dont think a role claim would help the town or me.

 

@Preston - According to me the vote count is 4-2. Cao Cao has not indicated his opinion and has mostly raised questions regarding the need for a role claim.

 

A) What gives you the idea there even is a role blocker in the mafia?

What kind of negative town role? (I'd have to look back but I don't remember a negative town role in the last game)

 

 

I would like to bring up my last post, what exactly do you (Preston in particular but others who have voted yes to roleclaim I would like to hear from too) plan to take his position as? Would you lynch him just to take a guess? There might be someone who can revive (although it might be only for a day like last game).

 

 

CaoCao, by negative town role, I mean someone like the insomniac or the cowardly lifeguard.

I say lynch him and go from there.

Why does it seem that KevinH is defending d3mon so much?

 

I am not seeing him being defensive. I see him putting his thoughts out in the open.

And I see you insinuating something...

If you are indeed a townie it is your responsibility to try to stay alive. If role claiming gets you out of the noose then do it. Day 1 is quickly coming to an end and like it or not, you're one of our leading candidates as there us not a lot to go off if on day 1. I never found you suspicious before but I find your recent behavior odd. If no other suitable suspect arrises you can be sure that I will be voting for you unless you say something to change my mind.

So what exactly do you plan to do if d3mon doesn't roleclaim at all?

Absent further information, d3mon has my vote. (I'm assuming you asked me this since it was directly after my post)

 

At the risk of repeating myself.. I dont think a role claim would help the town or me.

 

So, in all, the question for me is... Do you want to be lynched on day 1 or day 2? I will take day 1 with no role claim.

I would also like to see the opinion of inactives/replacements.

I'm not going to type up another long post on the subject, so I'll be brief:

 

If you had never referenced yourself as having a role in the manner you did, then yes it would not be in the town's interest for you to roleclaim. If you are actually town and we are about to lynch you by mistake, then you should be giving us every bit of honest information you have. Even if you die, your towniness being proven after your death would posthumously verify everything you said, and we would be able to treat that information as fact on future days. By not giving the town information you are saying that either you HAVE no such information (i.e. you're scum), or that you otherwise dont care if we learn nothing from your death. Based on your latest behavior I am increasingly thinking it's the former; last game when Tactical Evil Dan (Mafia Godfather) was about to be lynched his arguments devolved into "why me/theres nothing I can do" as well.

 

If you are choosing lynch on day 1, so be it:

 

Vote: d3mon

 

If you change your mind and try to roleclaim I will unvote pending analysis of your statement. Otherwise, you can have the result you wished for.

 

-Preston

I don't know who is scum or not. I don't think it is in the town's best interest to lynch anyone at the moment.

 

I'm positioning myself to say "I told you so."

I don't know who is scum or not. I don't think it is in the town's best interest to lynch anyone at the moment.

 

I'm positioning myself to say "I told you so."

You say that every game.