459 replies to this topic

[KevinH]

Vote Count:

Rafay (2): Ali bin Turban, Lyner,
Whitebeard (2): The Warrior, Imran Ehsan,
Imran Ehsan (1): Rhizoctonia,
The Warrior (1): Rafay,
King Hitler (1): King Hitler,
Rhizoctonia (0):
Ali bin Turban (0)
Chaplain of death (0)
Fermion (0)
iSocialism (0)
Lyner (0)
Mandarijn (0)
Robert2424 (0)

No lynch (1): Fermion,

 
Not voting: iSocialism, Mandarijn, Chaplain of death, Whitebeard, Robert2424,

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or 4 at deadline.
Deadline is Sunday, May 29 at 21:00 EDT

[The Warrior]

TW, it's not intended to give us hints as we play every day (because if you or me or anyone else can find a cop's hint while he's still playing then scums can do it also and he's as good as dead). It's intended to give us a list of townies/scums once cop turns out dead or decides to reveal himself.
 
What Mandarjin's said is great idea - everyone states one name at the beginning of the day with the role (like MrX - scum)...and I dare you scums not to post it  . Without a key to decode it's all meaningless noise. But as soon as cop steps in or is found dead suddenly we know what's truth and what's noise. Obviously, apart from that message we continue our scum hunt just as we normally do.

That's a good point.

This would allow us to gain the information anyway if/when the Cop dies without him needing to role claim and having that be the cause of his death. I like it.

[iSocialism]

I like the idea of voting for Imran

Vote Imran

 

let the lame accusations begin!

[Lyner]

Well seems good I guess, post your thoughts at each start of the day

 

 

 

Not a really bad start from Rafay, so:

Unvote

[Rhizoctonia]

 

 

Also, folks that get on a lynch wagon that targets scum (or the ones being strong accusers) will surely get the attention of the other scums, so cop would be risking his life in such case.
 
One important thing I think we can do in order to help cop is to post our opinions everyday (on both scummy and townie reads - but let's not get overboard with it - real cop would never come with 5 townie reads after first night) so that we act like noise that's encrypting cop's transmission giving scums serious trouble to get on a right track.

I could see that backfiring. If we make random nonsense to try and avert attention from the cop, we'd also be drowning out any noise from the scum if I'm understanding correctly. As for the hints, I feel the cop may be risking it there so they would have to be extremely clever. Scum would be looking for any indicator on who is the cop, that's their target #1. If their are hints, they'd have to be subtle enough to fit in the conversation but obvious enough to kind of spell it out what they found. That second part is what scares me though, in case it is obvious enough for a scum to pick up and cops gone with us only having one hint..

I can see the benefit though if the cop leaves opinions on people when he finds something out (during the course of one day, the conversation usually circles through everyone.) If he's killed, we'd have that "opinion" to go off of. With such limited players, confirming a Townie is almost as good as confirming a scum.

Also, can anyone ping isocialism?

 

Actually, what if we just all post 1 name of who we think are scum and/or town every day? If everyone does this, the cop including, we'll always have something to go back to (that's obvious ). But the scum won't be able to use this intel to find the cop?

 

Or can this backfire as well? I don't know yet if it would be best to post both a scum AND town person (if the cop is dead and we go back later, we won't be sure which one is correct) or to just post scum OR town person. 

 

 

 

I think the idea is pretty good, but I see a possible problem with it.  If say you ask everyone to say first thing each day a person and what you think their role is, that would allow the cop to basically tell us information on the person he investigated that night without having to role claim, and if he dies we at least know whose confirmed scum or confirmed town.  It's like leaving us bread crumbs to find if he gets lynched.

 

My problem arises where everyone does this.  The scum know who the town are and who the scum is.  So they can look through everyone's answers and they can start to narrow down their list.  They can start a list of whose answers are right (they are people who could be possible cops), and the ones who were wrong (know aren't the cops, and don't have to worry anymore they're it).  From there, they can look to narrow down the list even more, by looking to kill one of the people who was right at night, while using their rolecop ability on another that was right.  So each night, they narrow their list by two more.  If they don't find the cop on the first night, either by the kill or information they gain by the rolecop, then the next day when everyone again says their thoughts on a person and their role, they could narrow their list further by who got their claim right the first day, but on the second, they were wrong.  Their list then would be narrowed to who got their claims on people right both nights, and aren't the two they killed/rolecopped the night before.  Then the second night, they get two more chances of figuring it out by lynching another possible and rolecopping another, and likely will hit and if they don't, they wont have much left.

 

Now this is a possible problem, but it all really depends on how many people get their guess wrong the first day.  If pretty much everyone get's it right, the scum's list wont be narrowed down all that much.  Also, say the cop get's real lucky N1 and finds a scum, and the next day, he says for ex.  Person X - Scum.  The first person off the scums possible list of people who got their answer right on N1 to kill is going to be the people who correctly identified a scum as a scum.  Which means, yea we will know for sure who one of the scum are, but we will also lose the cop.  

So personally speaking, I'm not sure if your idea will be of more help, or hurt us worse.  If we go with the cop role claims after N3(think someone said) and presents everything he found, or even, if the cop comes out once he finds a scum...our jailkeeper will at least know who the cop is and can protect them.  Which makes the decision harder for scum, as they have to either try to kill the cop knowing it's likely the jailkeeper used their ability to protect them and not get a kill, or they go with someone else they know will be a for sure kill.   Your way helps them possibly find the cop quicker by process of elimination, and possibly allows the cop to be killed before the jailkeeper knows who the cop is and can protect them.

 

Also, I don't like the idea of everyone looking to claim both a scum/town the start of each day.  If the cop is killed, we wont know which he said each day was a confirmed right and what 1 was just a guess.  I think that would greatly hurt us.

[Rhizoctonia]

To clarify, the one idea was the cop to come out after N2 (or day 3). My above post said after N3. Would have to come out on day 3 if you want to have a point left for the jailkeeper to be able to use his role to save the cop.

That being said....the cop could come out day 4 with information he found on 3 nights. Yea we wouldn't have a point left ATM for the jailkeeper to save him, but if the information the cop exposes on day 4 helps us kill a scum, we gain a point which the jailkeeper could use to save him during the night then

[Rhizoctonia]

Never mind the 2nd paragraph I just said...should of double checked how you gain points...we don't gain extra points from lynching scum...we only do when town loses a PR.

[Chaplain of death]

Town power roles only get more uses if a town power role dies, not if a scum dies. Also i think we leave it up to the vigilante for whether or not they act, that way scum arent just writing off using their doctor ability. I wouldn't suggest using it much early but if we write it off completely then scum won't feel any pressure to use the doctor.

Rhizo makes a very valid point. Im surprised you guys missed that. Slightly suspicious of Mandy for putting that forward without addressing that.
Putting that plan forward*
*****ABT****** not mandy. My bad, thought it was Mandy.

[Imran Ehsan]

I like Mandarijn's idea. With everyone posting there scum/town predictions it will be extremely hard for the scum to pinpoint in on the real cop. Some people may get things right even by random guessing. So its not like only the cop will have correct predictions. The scum wont know for sure who is just guessing and who has actual info. The results will only be for 2 nights (assuming the cop comes out on the 3rd day) so the scum wont have enough of a sample size to weed out the guesses from the correct info. I think this is a very good insurance policy for the town in that the night results from the cop will not get lost even if he gets killed before revealing them.

[Ali bin Turban]

Aw, crap...Rhizo's right . I didn't took into account that it's only us who sit in the dark and scums know who's who. There's probably around 50% chance we make mistake (when we choose random target and random role - we can say that scum is a town and that town is a scum).

- First night mistake means nothing because now cop theoretically can make a wrong claim to be safe. So it would be a risky tactic for the scum to outright abandon those that make mistake. But still reasonable scum wouldn't consider to go after 1-mistake guy on the second night because half of them will turn 2-mistake guys on the third.

- Problem is after second night with ppl that made double mistake - statistically 2 of them are confirming themselves in the eyes of the scums as VT.

- On third night it's statistically 5 of us that have made 2 mistakes.

 

Without our "help" as I've mentioned scums have bit over 50% chance to find who's cop after 3 nights. With our "help" that's probably around 80-90%.

 

Bottom line is that it won't be good. It'll be terrible.

 

And CoD, it's called brainstorming - talking about ideas and trying them publicly if they will withstand the trial of arguments. Coming out with idea that has flaws does not show someones scumminess (thought is sort of indicator to watch individual in case he comes with another "brilliant thought") - such assumption would kill public discussion immediately (due to the thoughts "what if I'm wrong - they'll think I'm a scum"). More likely it indicates who might be a townie (ones who point out fatal flaws, like Rhizo did).

[Chaplain of death]

I didn't say you were scum. I said it was slightly suspicious that such a hole existed in your plan. It would have been beneficial for the scum if we had followed through on it, hence why Im suspicious. Its just another thing to consider farther down the road as we analyze people's play and what they say.

[SeaBeeGipson]

My view on that is it seems worth the risk. On D2, several people are bound to be right. Thecop may find scum or confirm a Townie, but I doubt the cop will be the only one who says who is who correctly. Odds are the cop will stay safe. By D3, the odds are going against the cop because it's hard to make 2 correct random choices in a row, but he won't be the only one. By that point, we have 2 pieces of information. With 2 people already being dead at the point, and if we lynch on D2, it'd be 3 people down, those 2 names still help. We get the information we need in my book. Any plan is going to pose risks because if us townie can figure it out, so can scum. It is just a level of does the benefits outweigh the risk. In this case, I think the plan would still work.

[Mandarijn]

Hmm, that's indeed a good point by Rhizo... Can we adjust it somehow that they can't benefit from this?

[Rafay]

I don't think the Vigilante should and the doctor is a scum role. Kind of draws speculation as to why you'd mention a scum role.

 

Oh dear. Didn't see that one. My bad.

 

That's one of Rafay's superpowers: "Sowing confusion" .

 

Guilty guilty.

[Lyner]

Scum might be able to track down the cop, but in just two nights? I think it's pretty difficult

 

Another workaround is that the cop doesn't necessarily need to give the town his true infos, a.k.a they may lie around until the moment he claims the cop role

 

The risk with this is if the cop got killed during the 2nd night, the town might be left with an unconfirmed opinion of the cop during the 2nd day

[Chaplain of death]

that defeats the entire purpose for what they are trying to accomplish.

[SeaBeeGipson]

What about an hidden code type thing? Like for example the cop spells it out in a really non-obvious way unless you're looking for it. Example: numbers next to our member list on the first post. If he posts something that fits in but tries to refrain from using numbers, then drops a 6 like "we have 6 night actions possible" or a 13 "every individual plays a part since we only have 13 players." Numbers are used alot in our posts, but if the cop uses 1 a day and some of us do the same, scum won't be able to track it. We just spoke slip a number into a post here or there, cop does it once with a few other townie and bam, we have a code to look back on that's fairly hard to spot.

Sorry I'd it confuses anyone, im.on my phone.

[Ali bin Turban]

Scum might be able to track down the cop, but in just two nights? I think it's pretty difficult

 

Another workaround is that the cop doesn't necessarily need to give the town his true infos, a.k.a they may lie around until the moment he claims the cop role

 

The risk with this is if the cop got killed during the 2nd night, the town might be left with an unconfirmed opinion of the cop during the 2nd day

Almost 40% chance - definitely not easy but not that uncommon.

 

And that's quite funny what you've pointed out

 - Cop may feed us daily with correct information (but we wont be able to use his info) taking higher risk and probably dying rather sooner than later. We have 100% guarantee we'll get small quantity of results.

 - Cop may feed us daily with false information (we also wont be able to use his info) taking lower risk and probably dying later than sooner. We have no guarantee we'll get information but if we do (only when it comes out), we'll get more.

 

Ultimately it would be a guessing game for the scums on which strategy would cop use. Just imagine their anxiety when they debate whether to kill that guy who's made 3 correct calls? Or maybe choose the one with 3 incorrect reads? Or some of that guys that hide in the middle?

[The Warrior]

Scum might be able to track down the cop, but in just two nights? I think it's pretty difficult

 

Another workaround is that the cop doesn't necessarily need to give the town his true infos, a.k.a they may lie around until the moment he claims the cop role

In this instance I would just hope that the cop wouldn't cast false suspicion on someone that a couple other people might also incorrectly suspect and help push people towards voting for a false lynch which is basically the exact opposite of what we are hoping to do with the actual information.

 

What about an hidden code type thing? Like for example the cop spells it out in a really non-obvious way unless you're looking for it. Example: numbers next to our member list on the first post. If he posts something that fits in but tries to refrain from using numbers, then drops a 6 like "we have 6 night actions possible" or a 13 "every individual plays a part since we only have 13 players." Numbers are used alot in our posts, but if the cop uses 1 a day and some of us do the same, scum won't be able to track it. We just spoke slip a number into a post here or there, cop does it once with a few other townie and bam, we have a code to look back on that's fairly hard to spot.

Sorry I'd it confuses anyone, im.on my phone.

Having some sort of cipher would be beneficial but we don't have a way to share the code/key without posting it here and also alerting the scum to what to look for..

[Ali bin Turban]

What a shame there's no fluff that is unknown but appears upon death (like alliance name in TW's game) to serve as an encryption key . Cop would be able to write anything he wants and nobody would solve it till his death.

 

Other than that if you can solve a code without cop's help, it also means scum can do it too.