459 replies to this topic

[Chaplain of death]

 

 

 

What about an hidden code type thing? Like for example the cop spells it out in a really non-obvious way unless you're looking for it. Example: numbers next to our member list on the first post. If he posts something that fits in but tries to refrain from using numbers, then drops a 6 like "we have 6 night actions possible" or a 13 "every individual plays a part since we only have 13 players." Numbers are used alot in our posts, but if the cop uses 1 a day and some of us do the same, scum won't be able to track it. We just spoke slip a number into a post here or there, cop does it once with a few other townie and bam, we have a code to look back on that's fairly hard to spot.

Sorry I'd it confuses anyone, im.on my phone.

Having some sort of cipher would be beneficial but we don't have a way to share the code/key without posting it here and also alerting the scum to what to look for..

 

 

Having a Cipher or hidden code with fellow players coming into a game is against the spirit of the game and is forbidden in the general Mafia rules. Therefore it would have to be made in game, and therefore the scum would be able to see and read it as well.

[Rhizoctonia]

Here's how I see it (this is gonna be brief as I can as I need sleep)

I don't think the for-mentioned plan of everyone claiming who a person and their role is the start of every day is the way to go.  I already stated why, as I think it will help the scum identify the cop quicker.  As I said, it all depends on how many people guess wrong after N1, but there's a good chance a few will guess wrong which will consolidate their list.  There's 10 townies, if say 4 people guess wrong(which the scum will know), that knocks it down to 6 possible cops, and with scum having the ability to narrow it down by killing 1 of them, and rolecopping another, now you're down to 4, that is, if they don't hit on one of those.  The next day, say for sake of things, only 1 guess wrong....they have 2/3rds a chance to either kill the cop, or find him with the rolecop ability.

 

Also, let's say the cop gets lucky N1 and identifies a scum.  He then presents that on day 2 as his guess like everyone else without role claiming he's a cop.  Well the first target the scum are going to look to kill are the people who identified correctly a scum.  Sure it could be someone just got lucky with a guess, but when the scum picks who to kill or rolecop first, it's going to be anyone who correctly identified a scum.   So we could lose the cop after a single day.  In all honesty, if you're going to go that route, the cop would be better off to just roleclaim and say he found a scum so at least the jailkeeper could save him, then the idea mentioned.

The idea of the having people state their guess of one town and one scum will not work either.  Because if the cop is killed, now we do not know looking back what one was the verified truth, and what one was just a guess by him.  It basically makes what he said unreliable.  The same goes with the idea of having the cop lie or not state the truth once.  Well again, if we go that route, we won't know for sure what one was right, and could end up lynching a wrong person, or believing someone is town when they aren't.

When it comes to the cop, i want the verified information, i want what we know is fact, not have to guess which one was true, or if he was lying one day and telling the truth another.  And the whole code idea...I don't see anyway of working, as if the town knows how to decipher it, the scum will to. We can't talk outside of this thread with someone to know the code to break it.  And any thought of doing so is breaking the rules of the game, and anyone doing so should never be allowed to play again.

I like people are trying to brainstorm some ideas to best play this, but at this point, I don't see a way for the Cop to get us information each day without roleclaiming that won't tip evidence to the scum or narrow it down.  

 

IMO, I think the cop should come out D3.  Even if he finds a scum on his first night, I think it might be better off allowing him to do another the next night, and then be able to maybe find a second, or at least confirm a for sure town.  This is a risk however, as if he finds a scum N1 and risks not saying til after N2 actions, he could be killed before he could tell us...that is a risk town would have to discuss if we want to do that.  I think it maybe worth the risk, but I also think informing us of a confirmed scum, especially when there's only 3 is important, so I'm back and forth, but at this moment I still think you let cop do two investigations no matter what he finds N1.

The other possibility is, if the cop doesn't find a scum on N1 or N2, he waits til D4 to present, so he can use his ability 3 times.  This will still leave us a single point to do a move, as if I read the rule correctly, we can get down to 0 moves, it's only after we go below 0 that all actions don't count.  That's a bigger risk though.  

And I agree with COD, we can't just sign off on the Vig not using his ability.  If we say we aren't going to use it, the Scum will not have to worry about using a doctor role on anyone.  I think as COD says, we leave the decision to use it up to the Vig.  If he thinks he has a bead on someone and wants to, pull the trigger...we'll know how many turns we have left if he kills someone extra, which then the cop may lose out on one less investigation.  I just hope the Vig is a smart player and doesn't just use it to use it, he needs to have a good feeling before doing so, but I don't think it's wise for us to just say we're not going to use it.

 

Just my thoughts.  I honestly think it's just better for the cop to do his power and role claim with the info then any of these ways of trying to disguise it without role claiming.  Once the cop comes out, he plays a different type role.  What he does then is make the scum decide is it worth looking to lynch the cop knowing the Jailbreaker may save him and they won't get a successful kill, or is it better to lynch someone else they likely know will be a successful kill but possibly allowing the cop to investigate again if the jailbreaker doesn't decide to use his ability on the cop.  

 

Ok so it wasn't short, but these are my thoughts...need sleep now

[KevinH]

Vote Count:

Whitebeard (2): The Warrior, Imran Ehsan,
Imran Ehsan (2): Rhizoctonia, iSocialism,
Rafay (1): Ali bin Turban,
The Warrior (1): Rafay,
King Hitler (1): King Hitler,
Rhizoctonia (0):
Ali bin Turban (0)
Chaplain of death (0)
Fermion (0)
iSocialism (0)
Lyner (0)
Mandarijn (0)
Robert2424 (0)

No lynch (1): Fermion,

 
Not voting: Mandarijn, Chaplain of death, Whitebeard, Robert2424, Lyner,

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or 4 at deadline.
Deadline is Sunday, May 29 at 21:00 EDT
 

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[Lyner]

Where is our obligatory no-lynch day 1 discussion?

 

Actually this is pretty important since we might potentially lynch a cop

 

I believe it is better to not to lynch anyone today:

 

Vote: No Lynch

 

 

 

 

Also is that your profile, Kevin?

[Rafay]

Where is our obligatory no-lynch day 1 discussion?

 

I'd do that but then again ppl don't like it. 

[Imran Ehsan]

Unvote

 

Vote: iSocialism

 

His play style is worse than Rafay. Lurking throughout the game and making no effort to help town. See last game he played (Roberts).

[Rafay]

See last game he played (Roberts).

 

If we're analyzing that, then  I played that one incredibly. Helped w/ 2 bug lynches.

[The Warrior]

Based on the style of this game and the fact that we know that there are only three town power roles I think that no lynching, especially on day 1, is a very viable option for this game.

 

I think that we should be making the scum work as hard as possible to kill everyone on their own without the town's help and try to buy us as much time as possible to gather information and hunt scum. We cannot afford to have many incorrect lynches before we basically hand the game to the scum. Each person that we incorrectly lynch is one fewer person that could be one of our power roles that the scum's role cop has to investigate to find them. Simultaneously, every incorrect lynch that the town does during the day increases the odds of the cop and the mafia framer visiting the same person sooner which also benefits the mafia and harms us.

 

We need to act on solid information or at the very least only follow leads that give high probability of lynching scum.

 

Unvote.

[Imran Ehsan]

^ Completely disagree.

 

This is exactly the type of game where we should be lynching from D1. Town has only 4 power actions. That means town should not be reliant on power roles if they want to win this game. They really have to scum hunt based on info gained during the day (as opposed to power action results from night). And that can only happen when a lynching takes place. There are wagons to analyze, there are defenses posted and people taking sides. These are all valuable info that can be used to filter out the scum. No lynch is a really bad idea specially for this setup.

Based on the style of this game and the fact that we know that there are only three town power roles I think that no lynching, especially on day 1, is a very viable option for this game.

 

 

So you think we should have been lynching if there were more power roles? In role madness games?

 

 

In this game we have a much less probability of hitting a power role compared to other games. So this means we should be lynching. You havent looked to scummy to me until this point, but your last post is pretty scum worthy.

[SeaBeeGipson]

^ Completely disagree.

This is exactly the type of game where we should be lynching from D1. Town has only 4 power actions. That means town should not be reliant on power roles if they want to win this game. They really have to scum hunt based on info gained during the day (as opposed to power action results from night). And that can only happen when a lynching takes place. There are wagons to analyze, there are defenses posted and people taking sides. These are all valuable info that can be used to filter out the scum. No lynch is a really bad idea specially for this setup.

Based on the style of this game and the fact that we know that there are only three town power roles I think that no lynching, especially on day 1, is a very viable option for this game.

 

 
So you think we should have been lynching if there were more power roles? In role madness games?
 
 
In this game we have a much less probability of hitting a power role compared to other games. So this means we should be lynching. You havent looked to scummy to me until this point, but your last post is pretty scum worthy.

I can see both sides here but I have to agree with TW. If we accidentally lynch a power role on D1, our whole plan can go down the drain. If we hit the cop or vig, we're in a pretty tight spot. I think lynching D1, we're solely going on who gives off a scum vibe with no real evidence. We have a huge chance of hitting a Townie over a scum. I don't feel as if we should be taking risks like that this early on.

[Imran Ehsan]

Things will be the same on D2. Probability of lynching a power role on D2 will actually be higher as there will be one less town. With your logic town should not be lynching at all, but just wit around in the hope that cop turns up something.

[SeaBeeGipson]

Things will be the same on D2. Probability of lynching a power role on D2 will actually be higher as there will be one less town. With your logic town should not be lynching at all, but just wit around in the hope that cop turns up something.

That's entirely true, but on D2, the cop would've been able to get at least 1 night action in confirming a Townie or scum and leave some sort of trial hopefully. Being down 1 townie by D2 is alot better than being down 2 townie, or if the Vigilante does end up using his role and gets the wrong scent, we could essentially be down 3 townies by D2 if we just go around killing and lynching people. I'm not against lynching on D2 because we would at least have some sort of path to follow by looking at whoever got lynched. On D1, however, I don't feel we have anything at all to go off of.

[iSocialism]

Unvote

 

Vote: iSocialism

 

His play style is worse than Rafay. Lurking throughout the game and making no effort to help town. See last game he played (Roberts).

lol, is this Imran using previous games to use as evidence. Maybe would should check out TW game, and see how butt hurt you were when someone did it to you.

Also, please have a better reason to dispose of me, I know you think I'm a threat, but come one. You can do better than that piss excuse.

[iSocialism]

Where is our obligatory no-lynch day 1 discussion?

 

Actually this is pretty important since we might potentially lynch a cop

 

I believe it is better to not to lynch anyone today:

 

Vote: No Lynch

 

 

 

 

Also is that your profile, Kevin?

I want to actually agree with this one. However, after thinking about it some more. scum have a better chance of hitting the cop. 1/13 we lynched the cop, if we don't lynch. Scum will have a 1/10 chance. They won't target themselves. Most likely we will hit a vt, but this will give the cop a narrower scope, same with the jailkeep etc. I know if we do lynch scum will have the same narrow scope to go after. I just see lynching as pro-town. I believe it benefits the town and the roles.

[The Warrior]

^ Completely disagree.

 

This is exactly the type of game where we should be lynching from D1. Town has only 4 power actions. That means town should not be reliant on power roles if they want to win this game. They really have to scum hunt based on info gained during the day (as opposed to power action results from night). And that can only happen when a lynching takes place. There are wagons to analyze, there are defenses posted and people taking sides. These are all valuable info that can be used to filter out the scum. No lynch is a really bad idea specially for this setup.

 

 

Based on the style of this game and the fact that we know that there are only three town power roles I think that no lynching, especially on day 1, is a very viable option for this game.

 

 

So you think we should have been lynching if there were more power roles? In role madness games?

 

 

In this game we have a much less probability of hitting a power role compared to other games. So this means we should be lynching. You havent looked to scummy to me until this point, but your last post is pretty scum worthy.

There is a much lower probability of hitting a power role. That is true. The difference between a role madness game and a game like this though is that mistakenly lynching a power role in a role madness game still gives you the opportunity to turn up information from your other ~10 power roles. Maybe a tracker or watcher would get lucky and actually see something noteworthy. We don't have that luxury in this setup. Mistakenly lynching a power role here hurts the town a LOT more than losing a power role in a role madness game. The only actual useful information we can obtain is from the cop or possibly the jailkeeper if he happens to somehow target the person that was slated to deliver the night kill.

 

I am not necessarily opposed to lynching on day 1 either. I just want to make sure that we are all considering every possibility and weighing the pros and cons of every strategy.

 

Btw, I like how you automatically jump to "you look scummy" for suggesting a no lynch on day 1. I am making a suggestion for how we can play this game. If you disagree that's fine, make your point and let us all weigh the pros and cons of each strategy.

[Ali bin Turban]

 

Unvote

 

Vote: iSocialism

 

His play style is worse than Rafay. Lurking throughout the game and making no effort to help town. See last game he played (Roberts).

lol, is this Imran using previous games to use as evidence. Maybe would should check out TW game, and see how butt hurt you were when someone did it to you.

Also, please have a better reason to dispose of me, I know you think I'm a threat, but come one. You can do better than that piss excuse.

 

Hmm...I'm again agreeing with Imran. This is valid argument because it is not about specific action made while being in a specific character of that game. It's argument about playstyle. Imran's said you've been lurking in Robert's game. Everyone playing in TW's game can confirm the same. Why should we expect you'll play differently in this game? .

 

Now...

 

When we let cop to work for 2 nights, statistically he'll be able to confirm 2 townies. If we let him work for 3 nights than most probably he'll find 2 townies and 1 scum. Hoping for more is being very, very lucky.

 

So let's simulate our game:

 

Optimistic scenario 1:

1. We decide that we're not lynching on D1 and D2.

2. Cop has found townie on the N1 and scum on N2. In the meantime 2 random townies have died at night (I could point out who won't be killed for sure but I'll refrain  )

3. He comes out and scum is lynched on D3.

4. Scums know we have just 2 actions left so they target cop no matter what jailer does. Cop dies on N3, N4 or N5 depending on jailers actions and is not able to provide us with any more information (of course they may foresee this and go for someone else and we can foresee their foreseeing and not jail cop...so it's a gambling game).

Conclusion: We are forced to need to start lynching on D4. We might be in a better position information wise than on D1. We're 7vs2 and will loose game after 3 mistakes.

 

Realistic scenario 2:

1. We decide that we're not lynching on D1 and D2.

2. Cop has found 2 townies on the N1,N2  In the meantime 2 random townies have died at night

3. He comes out telling about townies.

Conclusion: We are forced to need to start lynching on D3 with the same amount of information we got on D1. We're 8vs3  and will loose game after 3 mistakes.

 

Realistic scenario 3:

1. We decide that we're not lynching on D1 and D2, D3.

2. Cop has found 2 townies and one scum during the N1,N2, N3  In the meantime 2 random townies and one power role have died at night

3. He comes out telling about townies and a scum. Scum's lynched on D4. N4 some random townie dies.

Conclusion: We are forced to need to start lynching on D5. We might be in a better position information wise than on D1. We're 6vs2 and will loose game after 2 mistakes !!!

 

Realistic scenario 4: Please note it's just as probable as Realistic scenario 3.

1. We decide that we're not lynching on D1 and D2, D3.

2. Cop has found 2 townies and one scum during the N1,N2, N3  In the meantime 2 random townies and one power role have died at night

3. Cop's dead before he got a chance to talk.

Conclusion: We are forced to need to start lynching on D4 with the same amount of information we got on D1. We're 7vs3 and will loose game after 2 mistakes !!!

 

Lynch scenario:

1. We decide that we're lynching from the very beginning. We're 10vs3 and will loose game after 4 mistakes !!!

2. Cop has 17% chance to get lynched (D1,D2 combined). That means we still have 83% chance to get results as in scenarios 1 and 2 while keeping one more possible lynch mistake !!!

 

 

Final conclusions:

 

1. When we go no-lynch we're sacrificing our strongest lynch (strongest because the more lynches we go the more data we can analyze) in order to reduce the 17% chance we lynch cop down to 0%. Personally I have doubts if it's a good bargain.

2. If cop is smart then finding just one scum can be a big deal, though waiting to long for it will have great price. I'd say if we he doesn't find scum by D3 then screw it - he should come out anyway because he starts risking to much.

 

Due to the above considerations I believe that we should start lynching (hoping we won't hit cop) and cop should come out on D3.

And obviously, everyone is encouraged to challenge this idea, because there might be some flaws we need to discuss.

[KevinH]

Vote Count:

Imran Ehsan (2): Rhizoctonia, iSocialism,

Rafay (1): Ali bin Turban,

The Warrior (1): Rafay,
King Hitler (1): King Hitler,
iSocialism (1): Imran Ehsan,

Whitebeard (0):

Rhizoctonia (0):
Ali bin Turban (0)
Chaplain of death (0)
Fermion (0)
Lyner (0)
Mandarijn (0)
Robert2424 (0)

No lynch (2): Fermion, Lyner,

Not voting: Mandarijn, Chaplain of death, Whitebeard, Robert2424, The Warrior,

 
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or 4 at deadline.
Deadline is Sunday, May 29 at 21:00 EDT

[SeaBeeGipson]

Okay my phone reset whIle I was writing the message so I'll be short.

1) AbT - while I agree the most likely situation is cop survives til D3, that's being hopeful. We also have to plan for the worst case, cop gets hit N1 or they get back to back power roles. We've discussed alot about best case scenario and what we plan to do in a good event. But I think reading over your message brought the point of we need to plan for worst case scenario.

2) As for the no lynch vs. Lynch debate, I still feel a no lynch would hold beneficial for the previous reasons I listed but it seems the majority wants to lynch. We should still wait for some others responses before we dive in to that but I feel we need to be cooperative on our decisions. If the majority want to lynch, the few of us who don't want to need to cast a vote somewhere because it'd be holding back the group effort. Basically, we need to work as a group to win this.

3) based on #2, does anyone have any direction where they want to head with the lynch debate? It seems Isocialism is the center of it right now, but I don't feel just lurking is a cause to lynch. He might not know how to contribute to the discussion or might be wanting to lay low to avoid getting on the scums radar as we know they are going to target the most active of us first. But on that note, lurking does not benefit the town.

[Ali bin Turban]

Ad.1 and 2:

 

I think I've shown that lynching is beneficial when cop is alive. When cop is dead, there's no contest - we're forced to lynch because we have no other ways of acquiring information. So by extension, as much as it's risking cop's life, going for a lynch is also protecting us from cop getting killed by scums - because as I've shown in scenario 4 if cop dies before giving out info we're placed in a shitty position.

 

Ad. 3:

 

Starting a very first lynch is totally random, because there was equal chance for you, me or anyone else to be randomly selected by KevinH to be a scum. Now we've started talking and some people are giving out scum/ townie reads (like Rhizo has gave a strong townie read after pointing out flaws of previous plan, just after few other folks said it was good), but it's still nothing confirmed for vast majority.

Therefore, in order to make most of it we can and should target people that we know to become a liability for the town. That means everyone that is usually lurking or having scummy playstyle. Obviously we don't choose a scapegoat and pile on him to make a kill, because that would be pointless. We need to discuss targets, who and why, slowly build bandwaggons and watch reactions of other people. 

 

That being said:

 - I'm not inclined to vote on Rhizo (for reasons I've mentioned), Mandarjin (he made a mistake but it does not seem a deliberate one and he's been putting effort in) and Whitebeard (at least for now - because he's new and I know nothing of him).

 - I'm inclined to vote on Rafay and iSoc - reasons about both of them have been stated (though Rafay is making some effort ). Maybe Robert too because his lack of activity does not augur well.

[Whitebeard]

Man, I think there should be no lynch at this time. I exactly agree with Lyner , Ferm and Queen Hitler

 

 

Looking at AbT's scenarios, it's best that there's no lynch for now.

 

 

Vote: No Lynch